4 ms·

Is Britain Becoming a Failed State?

20 points by akbarnama 7y ago

mieseratte 7y ago
> But given the extent to which the Brexit campaign has undermined Britain's institutions through lies, it is reasonable to worry that the country will soon come to resemble a tinpot dictatorship. One could contend that the Brexit crisis is a culmination of decades of bad governance, that itself bears ultimate culpability. It's all too convenient to pretend that the other side is composed of nothing more than gullible rubes.
pjc50 7y ago
Before dismissing this (although I suspect it will be flagkilled anyway), it's worth noting that the author is a Conservative, and the former govenor of Hong Kong.
petepete 7y ago
We're at a stage where ignorance is celebrated. The EU has been attacked by the press so much people blame it for everything. This week a football pundit blamed the EU for a recent handball rules change[0]. On live TV. What hope do we have? Frankly, we are an embarrassment and don't deserve the EU. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ian-holloway-brexit-handball-eu-rule-qpr-blackpool-a9072536.html https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/...
- enriquto 7y ago
  Not that the situation in the continent is any better than what you describe, heh? Greetings from France.
- vixen99 7y ago
  Most would agree there are plenty of ignorant people on either side. Nothing new there. For those who appear to believe that Brexit is merely born of ignorance & populist nationalism, there is https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ - contributed by pro-Brexit academics and writers who focus on argument rather than cheap rejoinders.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    The very first sentence there says "Much excitement from Remainers this week ...". That's not going to be a website promoting a data driven, fact based viewpoint.
rayiner 7y ago
The over the top rhetoric is getting tiresome. It’s become trendy to dismiss every legitimate viewpoint you may disagree with as being the harbinger of the end of civilization. Of course Britain isn’t a “failed state.” It’s a sovereign country going through a contentious internal debate on disengaging from a multi-national trade union. By the way, the “enemies of the people” quote is from a Daily Mail headline, not anyone in government as the author implies.
- alexgmcm 7y ago
  The ex-PM called Remainers "Citizens of nowhere" though, which is still pretty bad.
- nathanaldensr 7y ago
  I call it "the age of hyperbole." It's everywhere--"mainstream" news media, YouTube video thumbnails, political protests... No one is allowed to hold nuanced or data-driven views; either you believe it's the end of the world or you are an absolute evil to be extinguished.
lordnacho 7y ago
Let's not forget that the state is not just the politicians. When we talk about failed states, it's often not just that the wrong people are in political leadership positions, but that everyday responsibilities of the state are not being fulfilled. So for instance you have countries where you don't expect the police come and help you if there's a crime. Or where kids aren't offered education. Those kinds of things certainly are also the responsibility of the political leaders, but it will probably be a while before they break down in the UK. There is at least some institutional memory in the civil service that will allow things to keep going for some time. Belgium ran for a while with no government. "Yes, (Prime) Minister" was very much about this; whatever fool is in power doesn't matter terribly much, because there's capable people in actual power.
PhilWright 7y ago
Written by Chris Patten, a long time Conservative party member that has always been very pro-Europe. So of course he thinks leaving the EU is a disaster, because it goes against his long held belief that the UK should be all-in with Europe.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  I don't remember name for this logical fallacy but I can think of a simple way of demonstrating, by rephrasing your comment. Vaccines don't cause autism by Dr. XYZ >Written by 'XYZ', a long time 'Vaccines Support' party member that has always been very pro-vaccines. So of course he thinks 'Vaccines don't cause autism', because it goes against his long held belief that the 'Vaccines don't cause autism'. Just because someone has been in a 'idea camp', it doesn't automatically disqualifies their arguments. I don't really care about the topic, but this type of comment is my pet peeve. Attack ideas not people.
  - mshook 7y ago
    Circumstantial ad hominem fallacy perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial
    - me_me_me 7y ago
      seems like a right fit
segmondy 7y ago
Really? If you want to see a failed state look at Venezuela. Britain might have her challenge, but it's far from a failed state. I'll stick pick Britain over many other locations in EU
loraa 7y ago
Canada is a failed state. The PM has been found guilty of so many things over the years, but the government is too corrupt to do anything.

20 points by akbarnama 7y ago

> But given the extent to which the Brexit campaign has undermined Britain's institutions through lies, it is reasonable to worry that the country will soon come to resemble a tinpot dictatorship. One could contend that the Brexit crisis is a culmination of decades of bad governance, that itself bears ultimate culpability. It's all too convenient to pretend that the other side is composed of nothing more than gullible rubes.

pjc50 7y ago

Before dismissing this (although I suspect it will be flagkilled anyway), it's worth noting that the author is a Conservative, and the former govenor of Hong Kong.

petepete 7y ago

We're at a stage where ignorance is celebrated. The EU has been attacked by the press so much people blame it for everything. This week a football pundit blamed the EU for a recent handball rules change[0]. On live TV. What hope do we have? Frankly, we are an embarrassment and don't deserve the EU. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ian-holloway-brexit-handball-eu-rule-qpr-blackpool-a9072536.html https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/...

enriquto 7y ago
Not that the situation in the continent is any better than what you describe, heh? Greetings from France.
vixen99 7y ago
Most would agree there are plenty of ignorant people on either side. Nothing new there. For those who appear to believe that Brexit is merely born of ignorance & populist nationalism, there is https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ - contributed by pro-Brexit academics and writers who focus on argument rather than cheap rejoinders.
- justinclift 7y ago
  The very first sentence there says "Much excitement from Remainers this week ...". That's not going to be a website promoting a data driven, fact based viewpoint.

rayiner 7y ago

The over the top rhetoric is getting tiresome. It’s become trendy to dismiss every legitimate viewpoint you may disagree with as being the harbinger of the end of civilization. Of course Britain isn’t a “failed state.” It’s a sovereign country going through a contentious internal debate on disengaging from a multi-national trade union. By the way, the “enemies of the people” quote is from a Daily Mail headline, not anyone in government as the author implies.

alexgmcm 7y ago
The ex-PM called Remainers "Citizens of nowhere" though, which is still pretty bad.
nathanaldensr 7y ago
I call it "the age of hyperbole." It's everywhere--"mainstream" news media, YouTube video thumbnails, political protests... No one is allowed to hold nuanced or data-driven views; either you believe it's the end of the world or you are an absolute evil to be extinguished.

lordnacho 7y ago

Let's not forget that the state is not just the politicians. When we talk about failed states, it's often not just that the wrong people are in political leadership positions, but that everyday responsibilities of the state are not being fulfilled. So for instance you have countries where you don't expect the police come and help you if there's a crime. Or where kids aren't offered education. Those kinds of things certainly are also the responsibility of the political leaders, but it will probably be a while before they break down in the UK. There is at least some institutional memory in the civil service that will allow things to keep going for some time. Belgium ran for a while with no government. "Yes, (Prime) Minister" was very much about this; whatever fool is in power doesn't matter terribly much, because there's capable people in actual power.

PhilWright 7y ago

Written by Chris Patten, a long time Conservative party member that has always been very pro-Europe. So of course he thinks leaving the EU is a disaster, because it goes against his long held belief that the UK should be all-in with Europe.

me_me_me 7y ago
I don't remember name for this logical fallacy but I can think of a simple way of demonstrating, by rephrasing your comment. Vaccines don't cause autism by Dr. XYZ >Written by 'XYZ', a long time 'Vaccines Support' party member that has always been very pro-vaccines. So of course he thinks 'Vaccines don't cause autism', because it goes against his long held belief that the 'Vaccines don't cause autism'. Just because someone has been in a 'idea camp', it doesn't automatically disqualifies their arguments. I don't really care about the topic, but this type of comment is my pet peeve. Attack ideas not people.
- mshook 7y ago
  Circumstantial ad hominem fallacy perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial
  - me_me_me 7y ago
    seems like a right fit

segmondy 7y ago

Really? If you want to see a failed state look at Venezuela. Britain might have her challenge, but it's far from a failed state. I'll stick pick Britain over many other locations in EU

loraa 7y ago

Canada is a failed state. The PM has been found guilty of so many things over the years, but the government is too corrupt to do anything.