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Nah, natural gas is just so much cheaper than electricity in the USA.
by swebs 7y ago
Nah, natural gas is just so much cheaper than electricity in the USA.
- alkonaut 7y agoEven with the maintenance of the gas lines? Unless you use gas for something else (e.g. heating) then you have an opportunity to stop paying expensive gas line maintenance costs and use that money to buy more expensive electricity. That's what's happening in some city centers in Europe as fewer and fewer residents use gas, those that do need to share the maintenance costs for the gas network, which makes it more and more expensive to keep using it so there is a spiral of people leaving. In stockholm it's now north of $200/year for a studio apartment even before buying any gas. You get quite a bit of cooking electricity for $200!
- nervousvarun 7y agoGood point, I'm sure the gas line maintenance is passed through the monthly bill. Typically though gas is used in the U.S. for more than cooking (stoves): heating water. More and more people are shifting to on-demand tankless heaters but even with those the perception is gas is better than electric.
- Conan_Kudo 7y agoA home with natural gas stoves often has natural gas for heating too. Usually the latter is what enables the former, because there's no incentive if you're already using electric heating.
- cpwright 7y agoIn our area (NY, north of the city) if you can't get natural gas, you heat with oil not electric. Plenty of people also get propane just for the gas stove. The yearly propane tank rental is about $100, since you'll never meet the minimums for a free tank with just a stove.
- alkonaut 7y ago> if you can't get natural gas, you heat with oil not electric. Is this the case for new construction too? Why aren't heat pumps used these days?
- Majromax 7y ago> Why aren't heat pumps used these days? They lose efficiency in very cold conditions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_source_heat_pumps#In_cold_climates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_source_heat_pumps#In_cold_...). Albany, New York (https://www.weather.gov/aly/SpecialDataALB https://www.weather.gov/aly/SpecialDataALB) has an official all-time record low of -28F (-33C), which is well below the point where air-source heat pumps have any meaningful efficiency advantage over even resistive heating. Heat-pump solutions that use the ground as their heatsink are much more expensive because of the excavation required.
- AnssiH 7y agoMajority of new single homes in Finland have used geothermal heat pumps for the last ~5 years now (source e.g. https://www.energiatehokaskoti.fi/suunnittelu/talotekniikan_suunnittelu/lammitys https://www.energiatehokaskoti.fi/suunnittelu/talotekniikan_...).
- alkonaut 7y agoYes same in Sweden. I mean I’m sure upstate New York is equally freezing occasionally, but if heat pumps work in Northern Finland/Sweden one would think few places would be “too cold”. What we do have in Sweden is cheap renewable electricity so choosing heat pump over oil/gas doesn’t just mean electric it means renewable over fossil too.
- kileywm 7y ago> Why aren't heat pumps used these days? Heat pumps are likely not used in New York state because most of them cannot warm the house sufficiently during the coldest winter temperatures (0F or less).
- adventured 7y agoMy home is heated with natural gas. The kitchen stove is also natural gas. In the post fracking era, it has been quite inexpensive. Natural gas is knocking on 20 year lows right now. There is a few dollar charge per month, regardless of use, for the connection.
- swebs 7y agoYes. It makes a world of difference that Pennsylvania is one of the largest gas production regions in the world, and can supply the population-dense northeast corridor. In Sweden, you have to pipe gas in all the way from Russia.
- mcv 7y agoSame here, and in fact in countries that have some sort of access to gas. It's the same reason heating is usually done with gas rather than electricity. So this is not the reason why the US has less induction stoves. In fact, cooking isn't a big expenditure on your energy bill. Heating is, and yet plenty of homes have central (gas) heating yet still have an induction stove. Simply because it's possible and convenient. If the US indeed has less induction stoves than the EU, the fact that it would be less convenient due to the electrical wiring of American homes is a more likely explanation than gas prices.
- vonmoltke 7y ago> If the US indeed has less induction stoves than the EU, the fact that it would be less convenient due to the electrical wiring of American homes is a more likely explanation than gas prices. Any house wired for electric cooking appliances should be able to handle an induction stove. Electric stoves are fairly common, but induction stoves are rare.
- mcv 7y ago> Electric stoves are fairly common, but induction stoves are rare. That suggests the cause is inertia. Plain electric stoves are very impractical, but they've been around for a long time.
- vonmoltke 7y agoIt may also be cost of the appliance (rather than the fuel). The few induction stoves I was able to find are quite a bit more expensive than equivalent-output gas and resistive electric stoves. Not sure how much that is driven by inertia either, though.
- close04 7y agoInduction stoves cost a bit more because the BoM and complexity are higher than the regular radiant stove. But since this is the kind of appliance in use for years it's possible you can make up for the initial investment with the lower operating costs and maintenance.
- jandrewrogers 7y agoSupporting this model, the Pacific Northwest traditionally uses electricity for everything because it is extremely inexpensive. This part of North America has seemingly limitless hydroelectric power, and consequently having some of the lowest electricity rates in the world. At $0.08/kWh, Washington not only has the cheapest electricity in the US, it is also much cheaper than any part of Europe. It makes sense that local building would take advantage of that.
- maxerickson 7y agoNatural gas is still popular in colder parts of the country that have cheap electricity, because it's much cheaper to heat with.
- jandrewrogers 7y agoFair point. The PNW has both mild winters and mild summers, which moderates energy requirements for temperature control.
- Aloha 7y agoI was paying a whole lot more than 8c kWh in Seattle, my rates are actually lower in Texas, and my new roommate was paying less in New Mexico.