6 ms·

Interviews with programming language creators (2010) [pdf]

212 points by MrXOR 7y ago

taspeotis 7y ago
Stroustrup C++ 'interview' [1] [1] https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/cpp.htm https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/cpp.htm
bluenose69 7y ago
The TOC lists C# and C++, but no C.
- augustk 7y ago
  And Modula-3 but not Modula-2, Pascal or Oberon.
  - kazinator 7y ago
    Well, those three would be one interview with the same person. The problem here is getting a interview, not just gathering historic material. Anyway, there is no shortage of detailed historic knowledge about the Wirth languages.
Jorge1o1 7y ago
Mindblowing quote from Anders Hejlsberg: “You can sort of view the sharp sign as four pluses, so it’s C++++” [1] Never thought about it that way. [1] https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/261958/a-z_programming_languages_c_/?pp=2 https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/261958/a-z_programm...
- layer8 7y ago
  I always thought of it as (only) two pluses, just differently arranged (diagonally overlapped).
  - DonaldPShimoda 7y ago
    Yeah but I think the idea is that it's (C++)++, i.e., the version that comes after C++ (which is the version that comes after C).
    - arithma 7y ago
      Which does not compile in C++ or C# :)
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Only because postincrement returns an rvalue. (++C)++ would be valid :)
- justicezyx 7y ago
  I always thought that is obvious :)
razza357 7y ago
Where is the interview with the author of Brainfuck??
- dentemple 7y ago
  Our minds would not be able to comprehend the answers.
  - merlincorey 7y ago
    I know you are joking, but as an esoteric programming language nerd... Actually, brainfuck is pretty straightforward and is basically a very low level language for dealing with turing tape machines using only 8 primitives. It's definitely not very human readable, but then, neither is actual machine code -- we use assembly mnemonics to be able to read and understand it.
pwm 7y ago
Nice, this looks pretty similar to Coders at Work + they both came out around the same time. Anyone knows if they share a common origin?
lelf 7y ago
(2008–2010).
tosh 7y ago
Impressive to see how the design decisions of Clojure hold up so well 10 years later. Also couldn't help but smirk when I read the answer to "What do you think will be Clojure’s lasting legacy?": > I have no idea. It would be nice if Clojure played a role in popularising a functional style of programming.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
open-source-ux 7y ago
Here's a quote from the Ada interview with S. Tucker Taft >Do you have any advice for up-and-coming programmers? > Learn several different programming languages, and actually try to use them before developing a religious affection or distaste for them. > Try Scheme, try Haskell, try Ada, try Icon, try Ruby, try CAML, try Python, try Prolog. Don’t let yourself fall into a rut of using just one language, thinking that it defines what programming means. > Try to rise above the syntax and semantics of a single language to think about algorithms and data structures in the abstract. And while you are at it, read articles or books by some of the language design pioneers, like Hoare, Dijkstra, Wirth, Gries, Dahl, Brinch Hansen, Steele, Milner, and Meyer. I think this point... Try to rise above the syntax and semantics of a single language to think about algorithms and data structures in the abstract. ...is a stage that not many programmers reach (I certainly haven't). Agree or disagree? Or do you think it's importance is overstated?
- choeger 7y ago
  It is absolutely correct. And if you can, you should try to gain some understanding of the inner workings of the languages you use. That often explains why feature X is not implemented.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  I agree with him. Read CS books about algorithms and datastructures that use pseudo-code instead of specific languages. Lambda calculus, denotional semantics, theory of objects, ... Then try to map how those concepts map to the daily languages that you use. A very contrived example, a B-Tree doesn't stop being a B-Tree just because you switched languages. It just might require a different way to map the abstract concept "B-Tree" to the actual hardware, using the specific set of language features available.
- AtomicOrbital 7y ago
  Absolutely spot on ... learn assembly language then use to draw 3d graphics as well as impliment io or your favorite data structure ... true eye opener
- jstimpfle 7y ago
abvr 7y ago
I'm a bit disappointed that there's no DMR here, but seems to be a pretty interesting document otherwise.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
"Start with a brand new language and you essentially start with minus 1,000 points. And now, you’ve got to win back your 1,000 points before we’re even talking. Lots of languages never get to more than minus 500. Yeah, they add value but they didn’t add enough value over what was there before." - Anders Hejlsberg I think this is very insightful. It's not enough to add (some) value. A language has to add enough value to matter to enough people in enough situations, or it doesn't gain any traction.
- breck 7y ago
  That’s a great quote. Also explains why we are seeing less new languages per developer capita nowadays, but far more packages. (There are about 10k languages, over 2M packages)
- m463 7y ago
  The xkcd "Standards" comic is always relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
- sytelus 7y ago
  Sometimes your job is just to be a shoulder on whom others can stand. If you have a new idea but can't figure out everything, it doesn't mean you should abandon the idea. New and better languages often have taken things from other failed efforts. It's not all that bad a thing to have created a language that is -500 from that perspective.
suyash 7y ago
The most important language is missing :P Java
- kazinator 7y ago
  C is also not there, nor any Lisp. Detailed historic material about these is copious. It's interesting to see interviews like with Luca Cardilli of Modula-3 and such.
  - merlincorey 7y ago
    > C is also not there, nor any Lisp Shots fired at Rich Hickey and Clojure, then, as they are in the PDF.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
divs1210 7y ago
I loved reading Coders at work[0], it had a wealth of insight. This looks similar and interesting! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coders_at_work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coders_at_work
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Huh. Guido van Rossum's title was originally "First Interim Benevolent Dictator For Life".

212 points by MrXOR 7y ago

Stroustrup C++ 'interview' [1] [1] https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/cpp.htm https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/cpp.htm

bluenose69 7y ago

The TOC lists C# and C++, but no C.

augustk 7y ago
And Modula-3 but not Modula-2, Pascal or Oberon.
- kazinator 7y ago
  Well, those three would be one interview with the same person. The problem here is getting a interview, not just gathering historic material. Anyway, there is no shortage of detailed historic knowledge about the Wirth languages.

Jorge1o1 7y ago

Mindblowing quote from Anders Hejlsberg: “You can sort of view the sharp sign as four pluses, so it’s C++++” [1] Never thought about it that way. [1] https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/261958/a-z_programming_languages_c_/?pp=2 https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/261958/a-z_programm...

layer8 7y ago
I always thought of it as (only) two pluses, just differently arranged (diagonally overlapped).
- DonaldPShimoda 7y ago
  Yeah but I think the idea is that it's (C++)++, i.e., the version that comes after C++ (which is the version that comes after C).
  - arithma 7y ago
    Which does not compile in C++ or C# :)
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Only because postincrement returns an rvalue. (++C)++ would be valid :)
justicezyx 7y ago
I always thought that is obvious :)

razza357 7y ago

Where is the interview with the author of Brainfuck??

dentemple 7y ago
Our minds would not be able to comprehend the answers.
- merlincorey 7y ago
  I know you are joking, but as an esoteric programming language nerd... Actually, brainfuck is pretty straightforward and is basically a very low level language for dealing with turing tape machines using only 8 primitives. It's definitely not very human readable, but then, neither is actual machine code -- we use assembly mnemonics to be able to read and understand it.

pwm 7y ago

Nice, this looks pretty similar to Coders at Work + they both came out around the same time. Anyone knows if they share a common origin?

lelf 7y ago

(2008–2010).

tosh 7y ago

Impressive to see how the design decisions of Clojure hold up so well 10 years later. Also couldn't help but smirk when I read the answer to "What do you think will be Clojure’s lasting legacy?": > I have no idea. It would be nice if Clojure played a role in popularising a functional style of programming.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

open-source-ux 7y ago

Here's a quote from the Ada interview with S. Tucker Taft >Do you have any advice for up-and-coming programmers? > Learn several different programming languages, and actually try to use them before developing a religious affection or distaste for them. > Try Scheme, try Haskell, try Ada, try Icon, try Ruby, try CAML, try Python, try Prolog. Don’t let yourself fall into a rut of using just one language, thinking that it defines what programming means. > Try to rise above the syntax and semantics of a single language to think about algorithms and data structures in the abstract. And while you are at it, read articles or books by some of the language design pioneers, like Hoare, Dijkstra, Wirth, Gries, Dahl, Brinch Hansen, Steele, Milner, and Meyer. I think this point... Try to rise above the syntax and semantics of a single language to think about algorithms and data structures in the abstract. ...is a stage that not many programmers reach (I certainly haven't). Agree or disagree? Or do you think it's importance is overstated?

choeger 7y ago
It is absolutely correct. And if you can, you should try to gain some understanding of the inner workings of the languages you use. That often explains why feature X is not implemented.
pjmlp 7y ago
I agree with him. Read CS books about algorithms and datastructures that use pseudo-code instead of specific languages. Lambda calculus, denotional semantics, theory of objects, ... Then try to map how those concepts map to the daily languages that you use. A very contrived example, a B-Tree doesn't stop being a B-Tree just because you switched languages. It just might require a different way to map the abstract concept "B-Tree" to the actual hardware, using the specific set of language features available.
AtomicOrbital 7y ago
Absolutely spot on ... learn assembly language then use to draw 3d graphics as well as impliment io or your favorite data structure ... true eye opener
jstimpfle 7y ago

abvr 7y ago

I'm a bit disappointed that there's no DMR here, but seems to be a pretty interesting document otherwise.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

"Start with a brand new language and you essentially start with minus 1,000 points. And now, you’ve got to win back your 1,000 points before we’re even talking. Lots of languages never get to more than minus 500. Yeah, they add value but they didn’t add enough value over what was there before." - Anders Hejlsberg I think this is very insightful. It's not enough to add (some) value. A language has to add enough value to matter to enough people in enough situations, or it doesn't gain any traction.

breck 7y ago
That’s a great quote. Also explains why we are seeing less new languages per developer capita nowadays, but far more packages. (There are about 10k languages, over 2M packages)
m463 7y ago
The xkcd "Standards" comic is always relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
sytelus 7y ago
Sometimes your job is just to be a shoulder on whom others can stand. If you have a new idea but can't figure out everything, it doesn't mean you should abandon the idea. New and better languages often have taken things from other failed efforts. It's not all that bad a thing to have created a language that is -500 from that perspective.

suyash 7y ago

The most important language is missing :P Java

kazinator 7y ago
C is also not there, nor any Lisp. Detailed historic material about these is copious. It's interesting to see interviews like with Luca Cardilli of Modula-3 and such.
- merlincorey 7y ago
  > C is also not there, nor any Lisp Shots fired at Rich Hickey and Clojure, then, as they are in the PDF.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

divs1210 7y ago

I loved reading Coders at work[0], it had a wealth of insight. This looks similar and interesting! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coders_at_work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coders_at_work

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

Huh. Guido van Rossum's title was originally "First Interim Benevolent Dictator For Life".