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Ha-ha wall
- hprotagonist 7y agoAnd in Ankh Morpork, there's the hoho: A cunningly designed ditch like a Haha, only the Hoho is 50 feet deep. Has claimed three Palace gardeners. Also once trapped Dr. Cruces, then head of the Assassins' Guild.
- Sharlin 7y agoDesigned by, of course, Bergholt Stuttley "Bloody Stupid" Johnson!
- EdwardDiego 7y agoWho is based on Lancelot "Capability" Brown who really brought the ha-ha to its fore in England. God I miss Pratchett's satire.
- dzamie 7y agoYep, and as mentioned in the article, there's also a he-he. A description is never given of it, but it's a safe assumption that it's a tiny haha, possibly only a couple inches high. Interestingly, if this is accurate, it means that the front/backness of the vowel in hehe/haha/hoho correlates with its size.
- knolax 7y agoA Hon-Hon is a Ha-Ha where the incline leads directly into a tunnel.
- radeklew 7y agoAnd the chon-honnel is the one from France to England
- choeger 7y agoIirc correctly a hoho is like a haha just deeper.
- ljm 7y agoUnfortunately due to escalating tensions, the ‘ke-ke’ became known as a Demilitarized Zone.
- robertAngst 7y agoWhen future generations laugh at our excess, what will it be? Similar status symbols?
- saagarjha 7y agoDoes a moat count as a ha-ha wall?
- compiler-guy 7y agoAlthough it serves something of a similar purpose, a moat interrupts the view and usually doesn’t slope on one side only.
- kgwgk 7y ago> a moat interrupts the view No, it doesn't: it's just a ditch. (But it's not very effective as a defensive element if not combined with a wall).
- compiler-guy 7y agoSkimming through the first hundred or so hits on “moat” on images.google.com shows that pretty much every single one does in fact interrupt the view. So at the very least, keeping a clean view isn’t a fundamental property of moats. But keeping a clean view is the raison d’etre for haha’s. In fact that’s how they get their name.
- kgwgk 7y agoMoats do in fact provide a very clear view of whatever is on the other side (often a castle or a wall). But of course that's not why they are built, nobody disputes that.
- compiler-guy 7y agoThe key here is “uninterrupted” and “clean”. with a well done haha, you can’t tell that anything is there at all. With most moats, you can.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- danso 7y agoSeems relatable to contemporary digital paywalls and walled garden variants.
- contingencies 7y agoOr perhaps more broadly consumption-oriented (popular mobile) platforms versus general computing. As the young and curious user approaches, the limits of the permissioned experience, previously hidden, suddenly loom large. The realization that one is constrained by the willful labours of an opposed miscreant creator either weighs heavy or is denied... as another meaningless notification redirects their attention to the myopic stream of infinite-scroll minutiae in the central circus of permissioned experience.
- gotts 7y agoThat's a good analogy. Unfortunately the young is left on the unfortunate side of the "wall".
- ortusdux 7y agoI've see the opposite of this, building fences on top of berms, in areas where fence height is limited.
- fortran77 7y agoAn ah! ah! wall?
- pvaldes 7y agoOne of the greatest creations in landscaping.
- hcarvalhoalves 7y agoNice hack - lateral thinking for fences.
- aiddun 7y agoA small youtube channel I follow just posted a video about these- specifically one next to an unfriendly military base on a street aptly named “ha ha road”. https://youtube.com/watch?v=pHHGSfd6rPk https://youtube.com/watch?v=pHHGSfd6rPk
- fauigerzigerk 7y agoI live right across the street from there. The video obviously explains the history of this military base, but what the ha-ha "protects" nowadays is actually not a firing range but a football/cricket pitch and some other MOD sports facilities that are open to the public. I'm using them several times a week. You can also book the space for events. So fortunately this area is not quite as scary and unfriendly as it appears in the vid. Sadly, the sheep were all scared off. No trace of them, ha ha.
- rtnyftxx 7y agoTo be installed around the Berlin Reichstag https://www.tip-berlin.de/berlin-considers-security-moat-for-the-reichstag-building/ https://www.tip-berlin.de/berlin-considers-security-moat-for...
- petre 7y agoGerman politicians feeling threatened? By whom? Angry taxpayers? Would be terrorists? Antifa youth? The article is quite hillarious as it ridicules this plan. I can already imagine tipsy German MPs going to work and accidentally fallinng into the ditch.
- gonational 7y agoNot suggesting this should be done, but for the sake of practical engineering argument, if a wall like this was used on the southern border, and I guess in areas where there is no hill it would have to be essentially a moat, with this theoretically save a lot of money over into nonsensically expensive concrete wall that offers a similar level of human blocking power?
- NikkiA 7y agoThey're even more vulnerable to the 'ladder' attack than a regular wall, since you don't have to worry about the drop on the other side of the wall.
- knolax 7y agoIt seems that you don't even need something as complicated as a ladder, a sufficiently long and sturdy plank could act as a ramp. Make the wall ADA compatible.
- jdietrich 7y agoNothing will perfectly secure a border of that length, not even a minefield. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortifications_of_the_inner_German_border https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortifications_of_the_inner_Ge...
- twic 7y agoSee also the 'Punic ditch'. I can't find a good description online ([1] is the most specific), but basically it's a fortification comprising a human-scale haha with the wall on the outward side, and the slope on the inward side. The idea is that attackers can cross it easily, by jumping down the wall, then charging up the slope, at which point you open fire on them, then when they turn to run way, they have to climb up the wall to escape, at which point they are sitting ducks. These ditches are called Punic not because they were invented by the Carthaginians (Punic is the adjective for things from Carthage, don't ask me why), but because they were incredibly brutal, and Rome's early wars with Carthage were so horrific, they became a byword for anything eye-wateringly cruel like this. [1] https://luntfort.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/punic-ditches/ https://luntfort.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/punic-ditches/
- orpheline 7y agoPunic refers to the people. Carthage was the name of their city, so they're also referred to as Carthaginians (see also: New Yorkers, Londoners, Dubliners, Parisians, etc.).
- wyldfire 7y agoYou chose some relatively ordinary demonyms, these are some fun ones: Mancunian, Muscovite, Liverpudlian, Glaswegian, Munsonian, Buddies.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoEquatoguinean
- orpheline 7y agoI know the rest of these, but Buddies is a new one; to whom does it refer?
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoPeople of Paisley. https://www.paisley.org.uk/paisley-history/paisley-buddies/ https://www.paisley.org.uk/paisley-history/paisley-buddies/
- miguelmota 7y agoIt does seem a little bit dangerous if there's no warning signage at the top. I could imagine someone running off the top landscape by accident if it's hard to see the divider.
- bootlooped 7y agoI have heard or read allegations that there is a wall like this along parts of the border between North and South Korea.
- buzzert 7y agoApple Park implements this as well to hide the fence (and the city of Cupertino) from the employees inside.
- saagarjha 7y agoI’m not sure if I’d call the raised mound that surrounds the campus a ha-ha wall. It probably was built to hide everything outside but the mountains, though.
- jszymborski 7y agoIn Quebec, there's a town named Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! for similar reasons (as well as two Baie des Ha! Ha! and one Rivière Ha! Ha!). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Louis-du-Ha!_Ha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Louis-du-Ha!_Ha!
- ndepoel 7y agoI did not know what a ha-ha wall was until a few months ago when we happened to pass by Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! while driving from New Brunswick to Montreal. It's right on the Transcanadian Highway route so hard to miss. To be sure a few laughs were had when we saw the town's name.
- m3kw9 7y agoI thought it’s named haha because so the person can still laugh at the intruder while they try.
- happytoexplain 7y agoThis was precisely my assumption. I was surprised by the etymology.
- orpheline 7y agoI'm both surprised and skeptical. It makes me wonder whether there's a larger story, now lost... Perhaps the archetypal occurrence was someone famously humorless, and their outburst was forever burned into the minds of those present. Or perhaps the first instance was on the estate of a noble who thought it funny and insisted everyone else find it funny, too...
- ad404b8a372f2b9 7y agoYou might know this already given your username, but for the sake of the thread I feel I should mention "Ha ha" is a common expression in french when discovering something, and not exclusive to this feature (which I felt wasn't made clear in the article). It has a specific intonation pattern and doesn't sound much like laughing, so to me the etymology isn't all that surprising.
- ekianjo 7y agoThey use this technique in the Singaporean Zoo.
- refurb 7y agoIt’s used in quite a few zoos. Main animal enclosure is at same height as visitors, but slopes down to a 15 ft wall.
- osrec 7y agoThe examples section on the Wikipedia page feels rather poor. The first example is a photo from the back (where the wall cannot actually be seen) and needs to be supplemented with a picture from the front, so you can actually see what the structure is! The other examples just look like standard walls. The diagram at the top does get the idea across though.
- shpx 7y agoI disagree, but regardless, this sounds more like a comment for the article's Talk page instead of HN. Better yet, you could go find better examples (with a free license) or take your own and add them to the article. Contributing to Wikipedia is quite fun and not enough people do it. You don't even need to make an account.
- osrec 7y agoWhile my comment may fit well on article's talk page, I don't think it's off topic here. A few upvotes agree. I contribute to Wikipedia already by improving maths articles, so I know the process. Your comment appears to have incorrectly assumed certain things, and worse still, you've tried to educate me in a rather patronising manner. I don't think that's in the spirit of HN.
- Jenz 7y ago> Contributing to Wikipedia is quite fun and not enough people do it. You don't even need to make an account. How is this not in the spirit of HN? Sure you might already know, but are we not to share knowledge/opinion because readers might already know it? Plus, other people (like me) also read these comments, and they might lack relevant knowledge... educating is not a bad thing.
- osrec 7y agoEducating is a great thing. Patronising not so much. If the OP's comment is for the good of the wider community, it should probably not contain a friendly yet subtle insult to the tune of "rather than just criticising, get off your backside and do something about it, you might even enjoy it". And I'd be very surprised if someone reading HN is unaware that Wikipedia can be edited...
- new_realist 7y agoThis type of wall looks quite unsafe, especially at night. It seems easy to fall off the top of the wall into the ditch.
- Ice_cream_suit 7y ago"The personal injury team at Penningtons Manches LLP has successfully negotiated a settlement of over £10,000 for a client who was injured during a wedding at a prestigious county manor house. The claimant attended the wedding with her partner in September 2014. They decided to leave the celebrations at around 11:30pm and make their way back to their on-site accommodation. The claimant was required to walk across the manor garden in order to reach her room. Unfortunately, there was inadequate lighting along the route and they found the lawn to be in darkness, with only a small light in the far distance to guide them. Due to the poorly lit area, the claimant walked from the lawn and over the top of a brick wall, falling 3 feet downwards into the grass area of a 'ha-ha'."
- OJFord 7y agoIn a similar case: > The presiding QC judge, Alastair Campbell, deemed a ha-ha wall to be outside the scope of the law regarding obvious dangers, such as cliffs or canals, where an occupier is not required to take precautions against a person being injured. This was due to it being an unusual man-made feature that the public would be very much unaware of, especially across a wide lawn. which I find an odd decision. I didn't know what they were called (so I followed the link curiously) but certainly I'd expect one at a house such as that. Unusual for the average dwelling, sure, but not 'across a wide lawn' or at a property with a wide lawn for it to be across.
- Ice_cream_suit 7y ago"A man who tripped and fell into a historic boundary ditch within the grounds of a stately home while taking his grandson on a guided bat walk has been awarded £8750 damages. John Cowan badly fractured his right ankle after falling into a ha-ha ditch at Hopetoun House on the outskirts of Edinburgh on September 5, 2008, as he and his grandson returned to a car park in the dark."
- BooneJS 7y agoDisney’s Animal Kingdom uses these in the Kilimanjaro Safaris ride.
- ascorbic 7y agoThey're not just to protect from animals. You'll often find them in gardens where the area below isn't even open to livestock. The other reason for these is to hide unsightly parts of the view. If there is a road, village or other buildings in front of the house, for example, building a ha-ha could make it look like the park stretches unbroken to the horizon. It could also make it look like distant hillsides are part of your park if your own land is a little on the small side. Source: my wife is a landscape archaeologist, specialising in post-medieval parks. We visit a lot of stately homes.
- wilsonrocks 7y agoInterestingly, I'm a web developer at a company housed in a stately home in Yorkshire that has a ha-ha. Can confirm that a herd of cows were not able to get on the lawn.
- gagan2020 7y agoZoo uses this effectively to give scenic view to visitors.
- cryptozeus 7y agoHa ha
- Theodores 7y agoThese are quite common in Gloucestershire but you would not know it unless you have some reason to be invited to the big houses that have estates. The health and safety considerations cited in the Wikipedia page don't apply to the ha-ha walls that are situated in sizeable estates. The big house, the extensive gardens and the fields beyond are owned by the same family. It has all been inherited rather than bought with 'new money'. The family and the staff know where the wall is and random members of the public just don't have access to the area, in part because of the ha-ha. The surrounding fields are not open to the public either. Others may use the ha-ha in a modern context to hide a car park in a hilly city setting but this is not a true ha-ha wall. These fake ha-ha walls are also for postage stamp sized plots of land. A real ha-ha is at the end of formal gardens that are so big that only gardening staff would need to go that far out from the house. The lawns should be big enough for erecting a marquee, having a large croquet lawn or whatever else goes with having a house that size. In the true country setting, e.g. Gloucestershire or another English shire, there are far worse hazards. A child could fall from a hay barn onto some combine harvester. Or a sheep dip with those neuro-toxin chemicals could be a grizzly end. Normal cows or the bull in a field could get you too. Hopping over a barbed wire fence might not kill you but isn't necessarily easy. Only a stupid, trespassing city dweller who should not be in the countryside under any circumstances could possibly fall off a real ha-ha and any ha-ha that is not part of a grand estate is not a real ha-ha. Rivers and flood prevention can also provide a good excuse for a stately home to have a version of the ha-ha. This will be a ditch arrangement with a berm, this hides the riff-raff using the riverside path and the ironwork that takes the place of a wall for keeping them out.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y agoThe Royal Crescent Resident's Lawn in Bath is protected by a ha ha. It's more of a discouragement than a fortification. It's not hard to scramble over it if you really want to.
- Tharkun 7y agoThe popularity of freerunning/parkour makes me doubt their usefulness as a security device, unless they're made significantly wider & deeper than the wikipedia examples.
- forkerenok 7y agoMy initial guess was that "Ha-ha" stands for someone laughing at the face of the ones that were stopped by the wall. Something you wouldn't be able to do had it been a traditional wall.
- mschuller 7y agoThere’s a great song about it: https://youtu.be/HBUMuDLCLpk https://youtu.be/HBUMuDLCLpk
- qbaqbaqba 7y agoHa-ha-broke-your-leg wall would be a more accurate name.
- jacquesm 7y agoI've seen a house in the united states that was built into the facing wall, from many angles the house was totally invisible.
- andybak 7y agoThis was a major Baader–Meinhof phenomenon incident for me. I literally had never heard the term before yesterday when I visited Exbury Gardens. One of their info signs mentioned that female officers were forbidden from attending a royal visit during WWII but got round the ban by standing behind a Ha-ha wall so only the tops of their heads could be seen. I was planning to come back and look up "Ha-ha wall" but it conveniently turned out to be on the front page of HN!
- ajuc 7y agoAlso known as a ditch :)
- OJFord 7y agoI would say a ditch is sloped ground both sides. The vertical (whether brick wall or otherwise) is a key feature here.
- calimac 7y agoIt's the foundational design of Facebook.com and other walled garden social media sites. #SocialMediaReformation #TearDownTheWalledGardens
- bambax 7y agoAs a French, I have never heard about this name. The article mentions the Château de Meudon, which I know reasonably well (I took the aerial views linked to on the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Meudon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Meudon): "ha ha" isn't found on that page, and I can't think of an example of such a construction in the domain. Isn't this a term attributed to the French but exclusively used in English...?
- thr0w__4w4y 7y agoWhen I read "Ha ha Wall" and saw the picture, I instantly assumed that it meant the people on the "safe" side of the wall could tease/taunt the people on the "difficult" side of the wall - like Nelson in the Simpsons, "Ha ha!" Guess I was wrong. Maybe less than 100% convinced I'm wrong, but I probably just fell in love with my own explanation & I'm unwilling to fully concede.