6 ms·

What does confiscating an addict's heroin accomplish? As far as I can tell, all you've done is make a desperate addict far more desperate than they were a momen

What does confiscating an addict's heroin accomplish? As far as I can tell, all you've done is make a desperate addict far more desperate than they were a moment ago. The situation is only made worse.

diydsp 7y ago
One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors.
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  Hiding the world from our children instead of letting them see how awful the adults have made it is dishonest, at best. I prefer to teach kids how to find compassion for people in such situations.
  - sempron64 7y ago
    Do you have kids? If you let them near active drug users as an object lesson, you need CPS called on you.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      are you sure you aren't letting your kids near "active drug users" when you take them to family gatherings?
      - sempron64 7y ago
        Active as in currently shooting up.
        frankus 7y ago
        I think he was alluding to non-injected drug use, like drinking beer or smoking weed. Of course by the time injecting street drugs into your veins seems like your least-bad option, you're in a pretty desperate place and maybe not someone that kids should be around while you're using.
        leetcrew 7y ago
        I thought the post I was replying to was implying that people on drugs are inherently dangerous to be around, so all I was really trying to suggest is that there are a lot of people who appear "respectable" but are hiding a serious drug habit. it seems that sempron64 meant people who are literally in the act of shooting up. I guess I can understand not wanting a child to see that, although I question whether that's really as bad as we are supposed to think. it can certainly be unsettling to see for the first time, but all it ever suggests to me is that the person has a truly miserable life. I honestly doubt that it's as bad as pervasive images of people drinking, smoking, partying and having a good time. the latter seems a lot more likely to lead an impressionable mind astray.
    - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
      I have a 10-month old child. We are raising them very differently from the way a fear-avoidant society might. As such, this is not the first time I've expressed decisions we're making that someone has suggested or even threatened to call CPS. We have multiple mandatory reporters closely involved in helping raise our child. We'll be more than happy to take them along with us to learn about various things that are all around them in the world. This will include things like taking our child to Narcotics Anonymous meetings, where active drug users may exist, and may excuse themselves to go to the bathroom to shoot up. We will, of course, only be bringing our child into such a context with their consent (which children are definitely able to give in a variety of ways, even if they may not fully comprehend what's happening). It's our job to keep our child safe in these environments, which means first teaching them how to heal from trauma and maybe waiting til they've displayed their ability to do so before taking them. Regardless, this is a much more careful and well-thought lesson than simply "letting them near active drug users" which we cannot ever be certain of and refuse to pretend as though that's possible. We don't live in denial like that. I'm an addict of many behaviors and my recovery's going incredibly well. Chemical addictions come with added complications of side effects from the chemicals doing their own rewiring, but it's the behavior of escaping reality that's rewiring the reward center. As a result, there's a lot of overlap between recovering from behavioral and chemical addictions. Also, please feel free to call CPS on us at any time. My name is my username and I live in Port Townsend, WA. I look forward to developing a working relationship with people who are interested in the well-being of my child* because raising them is an active experiment in applying the sciences of culture hacking, well-being, and learning how to learn in as loving of a manner as possible. (* Note, I'm not sure if you're actually interested in my child's well-being, as CPS and the foster system are NOTORIOUS for systemically traumatizing children. Yes, there are some systems not harming children or doing so minimally...so in spite of being a system of denying parents and children autonomy, which is a need for thriving...but I'm guessing you didn't look into the state of CPS near me to assess whether or not promoting calling them was actually in my child's interest. If you didn't, would you be willing to do your homework before making similar comments to other parents, as they may not have the emotional intelligence I have cultivated to keep from spiraling into fear? If not, would you be willing to continue making them toward me when you want to do so, so as to at least redirect your potentially harmful behavior? There's a lot of people out there, especially parents, who're suffering from Complex PTSD and undiagnosed because CPTSD is a new diagnosis and official diagnoses require access to certain types of privilege. Let's help educate them and everyone else about CPTSD and how to heal, not threaten them with violence, which is what threatening to call the state on someone is, since the state is designed with violence at its core.)
  - nostrebored 7y ago
    This might break the hacker news civility rules, but fuck this. Heroin has torn my family apart, resulted in multiple deaths (some of entirely unrelated people), and ruined my childhood. These people aren't pity props in some sort of fucked up game, they're humans and they're hurting themselves.
    - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
      I'm sorry for all of your losses and I agree, they're hurting themselves and others. So let's treat them like humans who need connection & acceptance & healing, instead of animals who need caging, as well as offer healing and protection to those close to them. Compassion and pity are NOT the same thing. The former is about providing mutual aid and solidarity, the latter is enabling, codependent, and charitable.
  - redisman 7y ago
    Preach. I, also, send my kids to go camping in Pioneer Square/under I-5 to teach them about the _real world_.
- sukilot 7y ago
  For that to work, they'd need a home. How is "view of minors" relevant?
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    > How is "view of minors" relevant? Because minors shouldn't be exposed to certain things. Like public urination, drug use, or fornication.
- gwbas1c 7y ago
  > One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors. Where do you expect homeless (and mentally ill) people to do their drugs? The issue is far more complicated then that. I don't think we have the political will to round up a bunch of homeless people and criminals and take care of them in a humane manner. We probably can't even agree on what is considered a humane and ethical way to take care of homeless and mentally ill people who probably don't want to be confined to treatment against their will.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    > Where do you expect homeless (and mentally ill) people to do their drugs? Where they used to do it before the current decade (under freeway overpasses and in the bushes alongside freeways).
rdtwo 7y ago
Well it prevents the ambulance from having to administer narcan an hour or 2 later
pnw_hazor 7y ago
Maybe they would move to somewhere else where they can do their drugs in broad daylight in public without cops bothering them. And where commiting crimes to support their drug habit are unchallenged. Someplace like Seattle.

diydsp 7y ago

One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors.

crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
Hiding the world from our children instead of letting them see how awful the adults have made it is dishonest, at best. I prefer to teach kids how to find compassion for people in such situations.
- sempron64 7y ago
  Do you have kids? If you let them near active drug users as an object lesson, you need CPS called on you.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    are you sure you aren't letting your kids near "active drug users" when you take them to family gatherings?
    - sempron64 7y ago
      Active as in currently shooting up.
      - frankus 7y ago
        I think he was alluding to non-injected drug use, like drinking beer or smoking weed. Of course by the time injecting street drugs into your veins seems like your least-bad option, you're in a pretty desperate place and maybe not someone that kids should be around while you're using.
        leetcrew 7y ago
        I thought the post I was replying to was implying that people on drugs are inherently dangerous to be around, so all I was really trying to suggest is that there are a lot of people who appear "respectable" but are hiding a serious drug habit. it seems that sempron64 meant people who are literally in the act of shooting up. I guess I can understand not wanting a child to see that, although I question whether that's really as bad as we are supposed to think. it can certainly be unsettling to see for the first time, but all it ever suggests to me is that the person has a truly miserable life. I honestly doubt that it's as bad as pervasive images of people drinking, smoking, partying and having a good time. the latter seems a lot more likely to lead an impressionable mind astray.
  - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
    I have a 10-month old child. We are raising them very differently from the way a fear-avoidant society might. As such, this is not the first time I've expressed decisions we're making that someone has suggested or even threatened to call CPS. We have multiple mandatory reporters closely involved in helping raise our child. We'll be more than happy to take them along with us to learn about various things that are all around them in the world. This will include things like taking our child to Narcotics Anonymous meetings, where active drug users may exist, and may excuse themselves to go to the bathroom to shoot up. We will, of course, only be bringing our child into such a context with their consent (which children are definitely able to give in a variety of ways, even if they may not fully comprehend what's happening). It's our job to keep our child safe in these environments, which means first teaching them how to heal from trauma and maybe waiting til they've displayed their ability to do so before taking them. Regardless, this is a much more careful and well-thought lesson than simply "letting them near active drug users" which we cannot ever be certain of and refuse to pretend as though that's possible. We don't live in denial like that. I'm an addict of many behaviors and my recovery's going incredibly well. Chemical addictions come with added complications of side effects from the chemicals doing their own rewiring, but it's the behavior of escaping reality that's rewiring the reward center. As a result, there's a lot of overlap between recovering from behavioral and chemical addictions. Also, please feel free to call CPS on us at any time. My name is my username and I live in Port Townsend, WA. I look forward to developing a working relationship with people who are interested in the well-being of my child* because raising them is an active experiment in applying the sciences of culture hacking, well-being, and learning how to learn in as loving of a manner as possible. (* Note, I'm not sure if you're actually interested in my child's well-being, as CPS and the foster system are NOTORIOUS for systemically traumatizing children. Yes, there are some systems not harming children or doing so minimally...so in spite of being a system of denying parents and children autonomy, which is a need for thriving...but I'm guessing you didn't look into the state of CPS near me to assess whether or not promoting calling them was actually in my child's interest. If you didn't, would you be willing to do your homework before making similar comments to other parents, as they may not have the emotional intelligence I have cultivated to keep from spiraling into fear? If not, would you be willing to continue making them toward me when you want to do so, so as to at least redirect your potentially harmful behavior? There's a lot of people out there, especially parents, who're suffering from Complex PTSD and undiagnosed because CPTSD is a new diagnosis and official diagnoses require access to certain types of privilege. Let's help educate them and everyone else about CPTSD and how to heal, not threaten them with violence, which is what threatening to call the state on someone is, since the state is designed with violence at its core.)
- nostrebored 7y ago
  This might break the hacker news civility rules, but fuck this. Heroin has torn my family apart, resulted in multiple deaths (some of entirely unrelated people), and ruined my childhood. These people aren't pity props in some sort of fucked up game, they're humans and they're hurting themselves.
  - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
    I'm sorry for all of your losses and I agree, they're hurting themselves and others. So let's treat them like humans who need connection & acceptance & healing, instead of animals who need caging, as well as offer healing and protection to those close to them. Compassion and pity are NOT the same thing. The former is about providing mutual aid and solidarity, the latter is enabling, codependent, and charitable.
- redisman 7y ago
  Preach. I, also, send my kids to go camping in Pioneer Square/under I-5 to teach them about the _real world_.
sukilot 7y ago
For that to work, they'd need a home. How is "view of minors" relevant?
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  > How is "view of minors" relevant? Because minors shouldn't be exposed to certain things. Like public urination, drug use, or fornication.
gwbas1c 7y ago
> One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors. Where do you expect homeless (and mentally ill) people to do their drugs? The issue is far more complicated then that. I don't think we have the political will to round up a bunch of homeless people and criminals and take care of them in a humane manner. We probably can't even agree on what is considered a humane and ethical way to take care of homeless and mentally ill people who probably don't want to be confined to treatment against their will.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  > Where do you expect homeless (and mentally ill) people to do their drugs? Where they used to do it before the current decade (under freeway overpasses and in the bushes alongside freeways).

rdtwo 7y ago

Well it prevents the ambulance from having to administer narcan an hour or 2 later

pnw_hazor 7y ago

Maybe they would move to somewhere else where they can do their drugs in broad daylight in public without cops bothering them. And where commiting crimes to support their drug habit are unchallenged. Someplace like Seattle.