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... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A plac

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-of-trying-to-attack-strangers-with-pitchfork-outside-ballard-post-office/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often found in parks where kids play. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/more-than-32000-syringes-collected-in-pilot-needle-program/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/more-than-3... Here's a syringe pile after cleaning up a homeless camp north of Seattle: https://2qibqm39xjt6q46gf1rwo2g1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/9061386_web1_M-Needles-1-EDH-171024.jpg https://2qibqm39xjt6q46gf1rwo2g1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-... I'm all for decriminalization, but Seattle's current approach is to decriminalize not only drugs, but a host of other actual crimes, like public intoxication, public camping, shop lifting, harassment, etc.

diydsp 7y ago
>meth heads >>Man accused Is there a specific name for this particular type of generalization where a one-time event gets represented as a greater-than-one quantity?
- isbjorn16 7y ago
  Hyperbole?
allana 7y ago
Yet "Moms for Seattle" can't be bothered to take a real photo of homelessness affecting Seattle's parks :c Those advocating for harsher handling of homelessness in Seattle have repeatedly shown themselves to be incompetent and callous. It'd be great if they could make an effort, like actually voting, rather than phoning it in and throwing money at blatantly photoshopped mailers.
- rdtwo 7y ago
  The back story is more complicated. They were advised that showing real homeless people would be disrespectful and equivalent to DOXing.
  - allana 7y ago
    Taking a picture of a tent is not doxing. They could've even used the tent platform in the playground at gasworks with their own tent but they could not be bothered to lift a finger :c
    - rdtwo 7y ago
      While I agree that they should have that was their reasoning
- nostrebored 7y ago
  Yeah, this minimizing comment and ones like it are one of the reasons I left Seattle to live in Cape Town, a city with one of the highest percentage of homeless people in the world. Guess what? I feel safer in parks here. Volunteer park is fine, and some of the parks up the hill are fine, but I've seen multiple children get pricked with used needless and I've been threatened by people in the park. I've been on the bus with my son with people openly smoking meth. I've been on the bus with my son where a man was punched in the throat for being Indian. I don't know how you can live in that city and do anything without being exposed to this.
  - allana 7y ago
    We have real issues in Seattle, but having frank conversations about it has been quite troublesome, too many people want to talk about feels rather than facts, leading to local satire like this: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most-dangerous-neighborhood-by-magnolia/ http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most... Seattle Parks & Recreation has started adding Park Ambassadors to address what you experienced, and it has significantly improved the downtown parks: https://downtownseattle.org/about/careers/park-ambassador-parks-plazas/ https://downtownseattle.org/about/careers/park-ambassador-pa...
empath75 7y ago
When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.
- nikanj 7y ago
  In the 80s people actually reported petty crime, and expected something to come out of it.
  - shados 7y ago
    Don't only do they no longer do, you're considered crazy, awful or entitled for even considering it.
- jrockway 7y ago
  I think people are also ignoring the fact the drug use might not correlate with the crimes these people are committing. Perhaps they are just mentally ill, with no access to proper care, and are self-medicating. Jailing them will never solve the problem. Affordable healthcare might, however. But oh no, then we'd have to pay taxes! We don't want a safe city that badly.
  - newfriend 7y ago
    Jailing someone who is committing crimes instantly solves that problem. The perpetrator is off the street, unable to commit more crimes. Treating criminals like victims, instead of showing empathy for the actual victims of these crimes is disgusting. Honest people should not be made to suffer at the hands of some junkies who can't control their urges and are compelled to commit crimes to feed their addictions.
- nostromo 7y ago
  "It's better now than it was during the worst crime wave in American history -- the 1980s." You're not wrong, but you're also not setting a very high bar. I think it's important that cities be safe, livable places. Seattle still is, for the most part. But ask some of your younger, single female friends where they will and will not go at night, and you may be surprised that it includes a large number of neighborhoods.
nikanj 7y ago
It’s only war if both sides are actively fighting. Seattle ended the war on drugs.
sukilot 7y ago
If crime is determined by victimhood: > public intoxication not an "actual crime" > public camping seeking shelter is not an "actual crime" > shop lifting is an "actual crime" > harassment is an "actual crime"
- fiter 7y ago
  I think there are victims for public camping but people will argue about the severity of the victimization. For example, I have to step off the sidewalk into the street in order to get by a set of tents. Agreed on public intoxication.
- munificent 7y ago
  By that logic, burning down a forest, defacing a public work of art, building a personal home in the middle of a public park, and dynamite fishing a coral reef are not "actual crimes" either. A good definition of "crime" needs to be able to include action that indirectly harm a large number of potential people. Otherwise, you are powerless to address the tragedy of the commons.
  - rdtwo 7y ago
    In Seattle if those were performed by a drug user they wouldn’t be.
    - wbronitsky 7y ago
      This implies that you have data around if drug users and non-drug users who commit crimes are punished differently, or that you are just flippantly responding to a well thought out comment. In the spirit of HN, I'll assume it is the former. Can you show that data?
      - rdtwo 7y ago
        Certain methods of punishment don’t work for people with no assets. So if the city might fine someone with money a couple hundred bucks for urinating on a public building, the city won’t bother with a destitute addict as it’s not going to gain them money and might embarrass government officials. Here is a similar example https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/03/05/25878343/when-a-vehicle-is-a-home-city-must-reconsider-tow-fees-judge-rules https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/03/05/25878343/when-a-... If I park illegally and get towed well tough shit, if van dweller gets towed the city has violated their rights and it’s terrible. So homeless druggies get free pass to commit all sorts of low level offenses that everyone else gets crazy fines for.
fwip 7y ago
> A place where a meth head attacked people with a pitchfork. Fixed that up for you - don't pluralize individual incidents to suit your narrative.

diydsp 7y ago

>meth heads >>Man accused Is there a specific name for this particular type of generalization where a one-time event gets represented as a greater-than-one quantity?

isbjorn16 7y ago
Hyperbole?

allana 7y ago

Yet "Moms for Seattle" can't be bothered to take a real photo of homelessness affecting Seattle's parks :c Those advocating for harsher handling of homelessness in Seattle have repeatedly shown themselves to be incompetent and callous. It'd be great if they could make an effort, like actually voting, rather than phoning it in and throwing money at blatantly photoshopped mailers.

rdtwo 7y ago
The back story is more complicated. They were advised that showing real homeless people would be disrespectful and equivalent to DOXing.
- allana 7y ago
  Taking a picture of a tent is not doxing. They could've even used the tent platform in the playground at gasworks with their own tent but they could not be bothered to lift a finger :c
  - rdtwo 7y ago
    While I agree that they should have that was their reasoning
nostrebored 7y ago
Yeah, this minimizing comment and ones like it are one of the reasons I left Seattle to live in Cape Town, a city with one of the highest percentage of homeless people in the world. Guess what? I feel safer in parks here. Volunteer park is fine, and some of the parks up the hill are fine, but I've seen multiple children get pricked with used needless and I've been threatened by people in the park. I've been on the bus with my son with people openly smoking meth. I've been on the bus with my son where a man was punched in the throat for being Indian. I don't know how you can live in that city and do anything without being exposed to this.
- allana 7y ago
  We have real issues in Seattle, but having frank conversations about it has been quite troublesome, too many people want to talk about feels rather than facts, leading to local satire like this: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most-dangerous-neighborhood-by-magnolia/ http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most... Seattle Parks & Recreation has started adding Park Ambassadors to address what you experienced, and it has significantly improved the downtown parks: https://downtownseattle.org/about/careers/park-ambassador-parks-plazas/ https://downtownseattle.org/about/careers/park-ambassador-pa...

empath75 7y ago

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

nikanj 7y ago
In the 80s people actually reported petty crime, and expected something to come out of it.
- shados 7y ago
  Don't only do they no longer do, you're considered crazy, awful or entitled for even considering it.
jrockway 7y ago
I think people are also ignoring the fact the drug use might not correlate with the crimes these people are committing. Perhaps they are just mentally ill, with no access to proper care, and are self-medicating. Jailing them will never solve the problem. Affordable healthcare might, however. But oh no, then we'd have to pay taxes! We don't want a safe city that badly.
- newfriend 7y ago
  Jailing someone who is committing crimes instantly solves that problem. The perpetrator is off the street, unable to commit more crimes. Treating criminals like victims, instead of showing empathy for the actual victims of these crimes is disgusting. Honest people should not be made to suffer at the hands of some junkies who can't control their urges and are compelled to commit crimes to feed their addictions.
nostromo 7y ago
"It's better now than it was during the worst crime wave in American history -- the 1980s." You're not wrong, but you're also not setting a very high bar. I think it's important that cities be safe, livable places. Seattle still is, for the most part. But ask some of your younger, single female friends where they will and will not go at night, and you may be surprised that it includes a large number of neighborhoods.

nikanj 7y ago

It’s only war if both sides are actively fighting. Seattle ended the war on drugs.

sukilot 7y ago

If crime is determined by victimhood: > public intoxication not an "actual crime" > public camping seeking shelter is not an "actual crime" > shop lifting is an "actual crime" > harassment is an "actual crime"

fiter 7y ago
I think there are victims for public camping but people will argue about the severity of the victimization. For example, I have to step off the sidewalk into the street in order to get by a set of tents. Agreed on public intoxication.
munificent 7y ago
By that logic, burning down a forest, defacing a public work of art, building a personal home in the middle of a public park, and dynamite fishing a coral reef are not "actual crimes" either. A good definition of "crime" needs to be able to include action that indirectly harm a large number of potential people. Otherwise, you are powerless to address the tragedy of the commons.
- rdtwo 7y ago
  In Seattle if those were performed by a drug user they wouldn’t be.
  - wbronitsky 7y ago
    This implies that you have data around if drug users and non-drug users who commit crimes are punished differently, or that you are just flippantly responding to a well thought out comment. In the spirit of HN, I'll assume it is the former. Can you show that data?
    - rdtwo 7y ago
      Certain methods of punishment don’t work for people with no assets. So if the city might fine someone with money a couple hundred bucks for urinating on a public building, the city won’t bother with a destitute addict as it’s not going to gain them money and might embarrass government officials. Here is a similar example https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/03/05/25878343/when-a-vehicle-is-a-home-city-must-reconsider-tow-fees-judge-rules https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/03/05/25878343/when-a-... If I park illegally and get towed well tough shit, if van dweller gets towed the city has violated their rights and it’s terrible. So homeless druggies get free pass to commit all sorts of low level offenses that everyone else gets crazy fines for.

fwip 7y ago

> A place where a meth head attacked people with a pitchfork. Fixed that up for you - don't pluralize individual incidents to suit your narrative.