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>If everyone reading this did that, would it impact them? No, they would be fine. But I think it's better to do something rather than nothing. As with climate

>If everyone reading this did that, would it impact them? No, they would be fine. But I think it's better to do something rather than nothing. As with climate change, systemic problems can't be solved with individual action.

techsupporter 7y ago
This seems like a cop-out to me. “What can I, as one person do? Just don’t bother since the impact is tiny.” I think people leave out the word “only” in statements like yours. Systemic problems can’t be solved with only individual action but the actions of many individuals can very much set examples, serve as encouragement to others, shift norms, and make the political space for regulated or coordinated action more available. We should not exempt ourselves from individual action, especially when it is inconvenient, simply because our small change won’t single-handedly solve the whole problem. This goes for browsers, “free” email, privacy, and environmental impact.
- jeromegv 7y ago
  True. Customer boycott have worked in the past. DELETEUBER campaign was quite a big PR nightmare for Uber and this could be measured in their market share vs Lyft. Same from buying power. You can either buy from small business and make a difference for a family. Or you can keep shopping at big box stores. Sure it feels like a small impact, but this isn't small at all for the small business. Those things add up.
- Despegar 7y ago
  We should not waste our time with individual action when that urge to do something should be directed at politics, policy, and law. Dealing with a monopoly at an individual level is an exercise in futility.
radisb 7y ago
They can. In the same way they were created: By individual action.
- i_cant_speel 7y ago
  The problems were created because incentives aligned for people to make decisions that lead to the problem. The only way to revert it is to change the incentives. And that can't be done by just me or you.
  - radisb 7y ago
    >The only way to revert it is to change the incentives. Or people could change their decisions.
    - i_cant_speel 7y ago
      Yes, but you aren't going to get enough people to change their decisions to have an impact without changing their incentives. Right now people are incentivized to use these "free" services because they feel like that's what is in their best interest. And to be honest, they are probably right in the current state of the world. I would be significantly worse off if I refused to use any Google services. I literally wouldn't be able to do my current job. Making any type of change isn't going to come from us, but from regulators who force change.
      - radisb 7y ago
        > Yes, but you aren't going to get enough people to change their decisions to have an impact without changing their incentives. It is not my purpose to change anyone's decision but mine. That alone is enough impact for me. > I would be significantly worse off if I refused to use any Google services. I literally wouldn't be able to do my current job. You have a tough choice indeed (I am in the same situation). But the choice is yours. And yours alone.
        i_cant_speel 7y ago
        This conversation was started about addressing the systematic problem of Google tracking users despite their wishes. You responded saying that could be solved through individual action. Now you are changing the topic to be about Google tracking you.
saagarjha 7y ago
> As with climate change, systemic problems can't be solved with individual action. But they can certainly be improved.

techsupporter 7y ago

This seems like a cop-out to me. “What can I, as one person do? Just don’t bother since the impact is tiny.” I think people leave out the word “only” in statements like yours. Systemic problems can’t be solved with only individual action but the actions of many individuals can very much set examples, serve as encouragement to others, shift norms, and make the political space for regulated or coordinated action more available. We should not exempt ourselves from individual action, especially when it is inconvenient, simply because our small change won’t single-handedly solve the whole problem. This goes for browsers, “free” email, privacy, and environmental impact.

jeromegv 7y ago
True. Customer boycott have worked in the past. DELETEUBER campaign was quite a big PR nightmare for Uber and this could be measured in their market share vs Lyft. Same from buying power. You can either buy from small business and make a difference for a family. Or you can keep shopping at big box stores. Sure it feels like a small impact, but this isn't small at all for the small business. Those things add up.
Despegar 7y ago
We should not waste our time with individual action when that urge to do something should be directed at politics, policy, and law. Dealing with a monopoly at an individual level is an exercise in futility.

radisb 7y ago

They can. In the same way they were created: By individual action.

i_cant_speel 7y ago
The problems were created because incentives aligned for people to make decisions that lead to the problem. The only way to revert it is to change the incentives. And that can't be done by just me or you.
- radisb 7y ago
  >The only way to revert it is to change the incentives. Or people could change their decisions.
  - i_cant_speel 7y ago
    Yes, but you aren't going to get enough people to change their decisions to have an impact without changing their incentives. Right now people are incentivized to use these "free" services because they feel like that's what is in their best interest. And to be honest, they are probably right in the current state of the world. I would be significantly worse off if I refused to use any Google services. I literally wouldn't be able to do my current job. Making any type of change isn't going to come from us, but from regulators who force change.
    - radisb 7y ago
      > Yes, but you aren't going to get enough people to change their decisions to have an impact without changing their incentives. It is not my purpose to change anyone's decision but mine. That alone is enough impact for me. > I would be significantly worse off if I refused to use any Google services. I literally wouldn't be able to do my current job. You have a tough choice indeed (I am in the same situation). But the choice is yours. And yours alone.
      - i_cant_speel 7y ago
        This conversation was started about addressing the systematic problem of Google tracking users despite their wishes. You responded saying that could be solved through individual action. Now you are changing the topic to be about Google tracking you.

saagarjha 7y ago

> As with climate change, systemic problems can't be solved with individual action. But they can certainly be improved.