6 ms·

I think there is absolutely no need every adult person needs to work 8 hours a day for 5 days a week. We might just as well work 4 hours a day or 3 days a week.

I think there is absolutely no need every adult person needs to work 8 hours a day for 5 days a week. We might just as well work 4 hours a day or 3 days a week. It seems to me, this is just a matter of how the market pressures people to spend as much time as possible at work vs how much work most people can tolerate. How do I know? There are countries where it is normal that both parents work to provide for their household and there are countries when it is mostly male parent that does the same with same effect. Yet, there is not much difference in their capability to provide, it seems in cases of both types of countries the system settled and regulated itself.

dannyw 7y ago
The commute may influence this. The average American commute is about 30 minutes each way. That's 1 hour round trip. Commute as a portion of work time.... 4 hrs work: 25% 5 hrs work: 20% 6 hrs work: 16.7% 7 hrs work: 14.3% 8 hrs work: 12.5% Considering you don't get paid for your commute, there is a natural incentive to work more hours.
- wwn_se 7y ago
  10h 4 days a week to keep the 40h work week. But it also depends on the type of work. I think desk jobs would benefit more than manual labour form longer days(asuming same total). As the mind and body recovers differently.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >10h 4 days a week to keep the 40h work week Why keep an arbitrary "40h" standard? Productivity has increased 100x from when it was established, what keeps it is busywork...
  - UglyToad 7y ago
    I don't understand this presumably American fixation with the 40 hour week. It's almost 10% longer than the default UK week which is already too long. Having worked both and currently on 36.75 there's still a huge amount of slack and wasted time assuming software development or other office jobs.
    - majewsky 7y ago
      > I don't understand this presumably American fixation with the 40 hour week. Not just America. We have elections coming up in Saxony (a state in East Germany), so I watched a 2-hour interview with the current MP from the conservative party (the same party as Angela Merkel). When it came to the topic of UBI and automation, he adamantly refused to consider any policy that would move away from the 40-hour work week. He meant that there were so many challenges ahead of us, we couldn't afford to lose any of our precious working hours. His mantra seems to be "Work harder, not smarter".
      - mschuster91 7y ago
        > His mantra seems to be "Work harder, not smarter". Bavarian here. Your MP is a nutjob, as is Söder and the rest of the conservatives. The point is that conservatives (as well as the FDP and the AfD) focus primarily on the needs of the businesses which means keeping to old Prussian traditions no matter what.
        majewsky 7y ago
        > Your MP #NotMyMP. I just happen to live here.
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  Remote work may influence this. Commuting to a workplace just to do the things you might as well do from home will be considered old-fashioned, inefficient and/or shameful in a few years, if my crystal ball is not lying.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    The problem with that this is is co located teams are a massive multiplier - very few jobs are truly singleton roles.
    - myspy 7y ago
      There are ways to work around that problem remotely. When working similar to the Basecamp guys it's even the other way around. Write problems down and give people time to chew on them. Everyone adds his thoughts and refining the idea will lead to better results than a two hours meeting.
  - athenot 7y ago
    Our team comes in the office once a week for some face time. But we have plenty of face time throughout the week on Webex Teams. We've eliminated the friction for remote face time. If anything, it's an improvement over the in-office because instead of interrupting someone at work, we politely message someone (or the team) about doing a quick call once it's convenient for them.
- zajio1am 7y ago
  For 20 hours a week, you can just work 2.5 8h shifts, not necessary 5 4h shifts.
- pjc50 7y ago
  Not only have others suggested the reduction of the week to 4 days, but if you manage to de-align everyone's work week then commuting can become faster. And de-centralising work (not necessarily to the home!) can also improve the commuting situation.
- pgreenwood 7y ago
  If you cycle to work you can change this equation, because, your commute becomes one of the best parts of your day.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    That's optimistic. I have what I think has to be about as close to optimal a bike commute as it's possible to get in the US (nearly all separated bike paths, minimal risk of getting hit be a car). I wouldn't call it particularly enjoyable, much less one of the best parts of my day. It's just a thing I do a couple times a week because I hate going to the gym even more and it saves a bit of gas.
- bratbag 7y ago
  This just reads like incentive to work longer hours for fewer days.
Consultant32452 7y ago
Countries where it's normal for both parents to work rely on a serf class, usually of immigrant women, to care for their children at terrible wages so both parents can work. I wonder how long this can be sustainable.
- varjag 7y ago
  Plenty countries where both parents normally work and there are no servants.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    Who is taking care of the children? Who works in the daycares?
    - coldtea 7y ago
      They who work in the daycares are not a "serf class", they are paid professionals, and they don't need to have "terrible wages" in a civilized country.
      - Consultant32452 7y ago
        Sure, they don't need to have terrible wages. Do they though? Are daycare workers a healthy mix of educated men and women with a lot of other economic opportunities but choose to be daycare workers because of the pay or emotional rewards?
        badpun 7y ago
        In Poland, you need to have a specialized degree to work with children in a daycare/kindergarden. The wages mostly suck though.
        Swizec 7y ago
        Where I’m from (slovenia) you need to major in kindergarten education to be a kindergarten teacher. So while the major is a little limited, it’s still a bachelors.
johnfisher57 7y ago
agree, well said!
lazyjones 7y ago
> How do I know? There are countries where it is normal that both parents work to provide for their household and there are countries when it is mostly male parent that does the same with same effect. I don't understand how this supposedly proves that e.g. male single providers could work only 4 hours a day instead of 8. Care to explain? As an argument against both parents working it would make more sense...
- abdullahkhalids 7y ago
  He is implying that in some countries only one spouse works 8 hours a day, and the couple/family have a fairly comfortable life. So presumably in these countries, both spouses could instead work 4 hours a day and they could still have the same comfortable life.
lostjohnny 7y ago
it is because most jobs are payed by the hour and that's how salary is calculated at the end of the month

dannyw 7y ago

The commute may influence this. The average American commute is about 30 minutes each way. That's 1 hour round trip. Commute as a portion of work time.... 4 hrs work: 25% 5 hrs work: 20% 6 hrs work: 16.7% 7 hrs work: 14.3% 8 hrs work: 12.5% Considering you don't get paid for your commute, there is a natural incentive to work more hours.

wwn_se 7y ago
10h 4 days a week to keep the 40h work week. But it also depends on the type of work. I think desk jobs would benefit more than manual labour form longer days(asuming same total). As the mind and body recovers differently.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >10h 4 days a week to keep the 40h work week Why keep an arbitrary "40h" standard? Productivity has increased 100x from when it was established, what keeps it is busywork...
- UglyToad 7y ago
  I don't understand this presumably American fixation with the 40 hour week. It's almost 10% longer than the default UK week which is already too long. Having worked both and currently on 36.75 there's still a huge amount of slack and wasted time assuming software development or other office jobs.
  - majewsky 7y ago
    > I don't understand this presumably American fixation with the 40 hour week. Not just America. We have elections coming up in Saxony (a state in East Germany), so I watched a 2-hour interview with the current MP from the conservative party (the same party as Angela Merkel). When it came to the topic of UBI and automation, he adamantly refused to consider any policy that would move away from the 40-hour work week. He meant that there were so many challenges ahead of us, we couldn't afford to lose any of our precious working hours. His mantra seems to be "Work harder, not smarter".
    - mschuster91 7y ago
      > His mantra seems to be "Work harder, not smarter". Bavarian here. Your MP is a nutjob, as is Söder and the rest of the conservatives. The point is that conservatives (as well as the FDP and the AfD) focus primarily on the needs of the businesses which means keeping to old Prussian traditions no matter what.
      - majewsky 7y ago
        > Your MP #NotMyMP. I just happen to live here.
stareatgoats 7y ago
Remote work may influence this. Commuting to a workplace just to do the things you might as well do from home will be considered old-fashioned, inefficient and/or shameful in a few years, if my crystal ball is not lying.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  The problem with that this is is co located teams are a massive multiplier - very few jobs are truly singleton roles.
  - myspy 7y ago
    There are ways to work around that problem remotely. When working similar to the Basecamp guys it's even the other way around. Write problems down and give people time to chew on them. Everyone adds his thoughts and refining the idea will lead to better results than a two hours meeting.
- athenot 7y ago
  Our team comes in the office once a week for some face time. But we have plenty of face time throughout the week on Webex Teams. We've eliminated the friction for remote face time. If anything, it's an improvement over the in-office because instead of interrupting someone at work, we politely message someone (or the team) about doing a quick call once it's convenient for them.
zajio1am 7y ago
For 20 hours a week, you can just work 2.5 8h shifts, not necessary 5 4h shifts.
pjc50 7y ago
Not only have others suggested the reduction of the week to 4 days, but if you manage to de-align everyone's work week then commuting can become faster. And de-centralising work (not necessarily to the home!) can also improve the commuting situation.
pgreenwood 7y ago
If you cycle to work you can change this equation, because, your commute becomes one of the best parts of your day.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  That's optimistic. I have what I think has to be about as close to optimal a bike commute as it's possible to get in the US (nearly all separated bike paths, minimal risk of getting hit be a car). I wouldn't call it particularly enjoyable, much less one of the best parts of my day. It's just a thing I do a couple times a week because I hate going to the gym even more and it saves a bit of gas.
bratbag 7y ago
This just reads like incentive to work longer hours for fewer days.

Consultant32452 7y ago

Countries where it's normal for both parents to work rely on a serf class, usually of immigrant women, to care for their children at terrible wages so both parents can work. I wonder how long this can be sustainable.

varjag 7y ago
Plenty countries where both parents normally work and there are no servants.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  Who is taking care of the children? Who works in the daycares?
  - coldtea 7y ago
    They who work in the daycares are not a "serf class", they are paid professionals, and they don't need to have "terrible wages" in a civilized country.
    - Consultant32452 7y ago
      Sure, they don't need to have terrible wages. Do they though? Are daycare workers a healthy mix of educated men and women with a lot of other economic opportunities but choose to be daycare workers because of the pay or emotional rewards?
      - badpun 7y ago
        In Poland, you need to have a specialized degree to work with children in a daycare/kindergarden. The wages mostly suck though.
      - Swizec 7y ago
        Where I’m from (slovenia) you need to major in kindergarten education to be a kindergarten teacher. So while the major is a little limited, it’s still a bachelors.

johnfisher57 7y ago

agree, well said!

lazyjones 7y ago

> How do I know? There are countries where it is normal that both parents work to provide for their household and there are countries when it is mostly male parent that does the same with same effect. I don't understand how this supposedly proves that e.g. male single providers could work only 4 hours a day instead of 8. Care to explain? As an argument against both parents working it would make more sense...

abdullahkhalids 7y ago
He is implying that in some countries only one spouse works 8 hours a day, and the couple/family have a fairly comfortable life. So presumably in these countries, both spouses could instead work 4 hours a day and they could still have the same comfortable life.

lostjohnny 7y ago

it is because most jobs are payed by the hour and that's how salary is calculated at the end of the month