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> but a Chinese citizen could quite legitimately make the case that their system is superior to Western democracy on a pragmatic level It is even easier to loo

> but a Chinese citizen could quite legitimately make the case that their system is superior to Western democracy on a pragmatic level It is even easier to look at India, where the putative democracy the country has has not led to any kind of economic miracle for the poor.

pas 7y ago
One success/failure story does not mean much. There are a lot of studies about how economic prosperity and democracy/liberalism went hand in hand in a lot of countries. And there are outliers, and the studies can be questioned, and so on. China rented out its workforce and a relatively enlightened but autocratic leadership made sure it works, they make a lot of money, and that they reinvest that. India never had such a strong leadership. They probably spent a lot of time and energy just doing what other multi-party democracies do, squibble, play the politics game, and so on. Also, don't forget how India slowly started to get rid of the caste system and other deep rooted inequality problems, similarly grassroots efforts to curb corruption progressed through the various courts and legislatures. China spent no time with such sentimental stuff.
- roboys 7y ago
  Democracies are not as agile as they used to seem. The ability to move with conviction on short notice is an edge that the Chinese government has over Western nations.
  - pas 7y ago
    I think it's not inherently Democracy's "fault". The problem is the currently prevailing fiscal and monetary culture is overly conservative.
- peteretep 7y ago
  > don't forget how India slowly started to get rid of the caste system and other deep rooted inequality problems ... China spent no time with such sentimental stuff. You might be interested in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
  - pas 7y ago
    I was mainly referencing the decades where the huge economic boom happened, basically/circa 1975-2005.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  > Also, don't forget how India slowly started to get rid of the caste system and other deep rooted inequality problems, similarly grassroots efforts to curb corruption progressed through the various courts and legislatures. China spent no time with such sentimental stuff. China has a full blown caste system via hukous.
  - pas 7y ago
    How prevalent it is compared to party/political clout-based hierarchy?

pas 7y ago

One success/failure story does not mean much. There are a lot of studies about how economic prosperity and democracy/liberalism went hand in hand in a lot of countries. And there are outliers, and the studies can be questioned, and so on. China rented out its workforce and a relatively enlightened but autocratic leadership made sure it works, they make a lot of money, and that they reinvest that. India never had such a strong leadership. They probably spent a lot of time and energy just doing what other multi-party democracies do, squibble, play the politics game, and so on. Also, don't forget how India slowly started to get rid of the caste system and other deep rooted inequality problems, similarly grassroots efforts to curb corruption progressed through the various courts and legislatures. China spent no time with such sentimental stuff.

roboys 7y ago
Democracies are not as agile as they used to seem. The ability to move with conviction on short notice is an edge that the Chinese government has over Western nations.
- pas 7y ago
  I think it's not inherently Democracy's "fault". The problem is the currently prevailing fiscal and monetary culture is overly conservative.
peteretep 7y ago
> don't forget how India slowly started to get rid of the caste system and other deep rooted inequality problems ... China spent no time with such sentimental stuff. You might be interested in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
- pas 7y ago
  I was mainly referencing the decades where the huge economic boom happened, basically/circa 1975-2005.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
> Also, don't forget how India slowly started to get rid of the caste system and other deep rooted inequality problems, similarly grassroots efforts to curb corruption progressed through the various courts and legislatures. China spent no time with such sentimental stuff. China has a full blown caste system via hukous.
- pas 7y ago
  How prevalent it is compared to party/political clout-based hierarchy?