5 ms·

All I want is an OS that has as few of the weaknesses as possible and all the best things about all the current major operating systems; examples: Flagship gami

by ulkesh 7y ago

All I want is an OS that has as few of the weaknesses as possible and all the best things about all the current major operating systems; examples: Flagship gaming support from Windows, Stability and flexibility from Linux, and Design principles from MacOS. Each of those three operating systems have some weaknesses that makes me jump between them quite often. Things like: Forced updates in Windows 10, certain lack of hardware, application, and game support in Linux, and MacOS "requiring" Apple hardware (I know about hackintoshes, built some in my day, but they always felt like a house of cards). There are plenty of other strengths and weaknesses to each of them, I just feel as if I'm always giving up something awesome and gaining something painful when switching. One would think by now we would have more competitors (and I consider the various distributions/desktop environments of Linux as a single competitor to Windows and MacOS), trying out new ways of user experiences, and/or trying to bring together what makes each of them great into a single source. Of course, so much is driven on ROI and developer buy-in, so I understand the reality and complexity. The above is my dream :)

m3at 7y ago
Flagship gaming support from Windows, Stability and flexibility from Linux, and Design principles from MacOS I would love such an OS too! Sadly I'm not aware of anything that ticks the three, but at least ElementaryOS [1] attempts to tackle the last two. I enjoyed it three years ago, though I had to move to MacOS for work so I'm unsure about how it is now. [1] https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
screye 7y ago
> Stability and flexibility from Linux I might have been using linux wrong. Because as a daily driver media consumption device, it has been anything but stable. I suspect it is because it was a laptop with a discrete graphics card, which for some reason completely trips linux up. > Forced updates in Windows 10 I think this has been solved in a recent update
- josephagoss 7y ago
  Linux is extremely stable as a headless server. We have instances running for years with no issues. That is where Linux's reputation for stability most likely comes from. However as a desktop machine mainly used for media consumption I would take windows over linux any day. No doubt due to poor graphics and audio driver support.
  - WarDores 7y ago
    This. The Nvidia drivers are getting there, but they're nowhere close to Windows. Tend to mess with audio, have to restart to use a dual monitor setup (yes, I've googled). It's a real hassle for anything but a basic setup.
    - saghm 7y ago
      > The Nvidia drivers are getting there, but they're nowhere close to Windows...have to restart to use a dual monitor setup I have a desktop with a discrete Nvidia card, and on Linux I'm easily able to turn on my second monitor after the system is already booted and have it be recognized. I'm super curious to hear what issues you ran into with this sort of thing, because it all works without hassle for me.
      - WarDores 7y ago
        The issue I'm having is that Nvidia driver 418 doesn't support my HDMI out (still haven't figured out why), but 390 has atrocious power management. So when I'm mobile, I switch to 418 (restart), and at my desk back to 390 (restart again).
        saghm 7y ago
        Ah, yeah, that does sound extremely painful. I'm guessing you've already tried using noveau to see if that works better?
  - screye 7y ago
    > Linux is extremely stable as a headless server. No question. I love my linux VMs. They are rock solid. > for media consumption I would take windows over linux any day. No doubt due to poor graphics and audio driver support. This is me right now. You boiled it down to the essence of it.
- misterdoubt 7y ago
  You might have been using Linux wrong, but there are also better and worse hardware choices and distro choices. There are laptops with friendly hardware that you can run anything on; there are some that will fight anything but their original OS. I have been running Linux daily at home because it's been rock solid for years on my home laptops. And that has involved plenty of media consumption. I used to dual boot, but on the latest I couldn't untangle Windows from 100% disk usage and failed Windows Updates -- this on a laptop that was literally a few weeks old. So long, Windows.
- ccalvert 7y ago
  I use Ubuntu Desktop as my primary machine and find it very stable. I use it primarily for development with WebStorm, Atom, VirtualBox, Chromium, Node, and Bash. I rarely play games on it, and my taste in games is not fancy. I handle mail, videos, and writing chores in Chrome and Firefox. I listen to music via Spotify. I use the video card built into my motherboard. The most demanding thing I do with it is record videos that capture what I do on the screen. Perhaps I am not a typical user, but nonetheless, I rarely have trouble with Linux. Everything just works.
waddlesplash 7y ago
Well, this is very similar to the Haiku project's goals, though of course on many of these fronts we're only partway there. Care to come join us? :)
- dleslie 7y ago
  Hey, thanks for sticking to it. You're doing important work.
- stOneskull 7y ago
  Last time I checked it out, I was very impressed. Especially the HaikuDepot. Pretty cool collection of software including KDE stuff, and latest python. I had some problems (mainly with booting, I had to do it in a roundabout rEFInd way) and thought I'd check it out again in October. Thank you for your work on it. Nice to see you here.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  Join Haiku Project / Write lots of code to make a / Unified OS
- ulkesh 7y ago
  I’ll be happy to give it a go in a VM to start :)
  - waddlesplash 7y ago
    Please do! You can find us in Freenode#haiku; feel free to join there and send us feedback, etc. :)
derefr 7y ago
> Things like: Forced updates in Windows 10, certain lack of hardware, application, and game support in Linux, and MacOS "requiring" Apple hardware I'm pretty sure you've discovered a simplex (a thing like a CAP triangle) here! These all trade off against one-another: 1. highly-integrated first-class hardware support 2. support for all third-party components under the sun 3. low security-vulnerability surface (and thus a long security-critical update cadence) Windows picks 1 and 2 at the expense of 3. Linux picks 2 and 3 at the expense of 1. Apple picks 1 and 3 at the expense of 2. (Hackintoshes trade some of 1 for some of 2, ending up fully satisfying neither.) I'm pretty sure you can't have 100% of all three, no matter your resources. They're trade-offs, not in time/effort, but in design-space.
- dnautics 7y ago
  Is linux really 2 and 3 at the expense of 1? I've had several issues where hardware doesn't work on windows, but does work on linux.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 7y ago
    I think "highly-integrated" and "first class" are the key terms here. Linux supports much more consumer hardware out of the box than it did a decade ago, but if you ever do encounter a driver issue, you'll need to know your way around the terminal and be able to google-fu your way around some forums. The people on this site might be able to get through it without too much pain, but we're in the minority. Windows definitely supports more hardware out of the box, and even when something doesn't work, it gives you some nice GUIs to manage the drivers. At the end of the day writing drivers sucks, and it's tough to provide support for the virtually endless supply of components and periphs without paying people to write those drivers.
  - winter_blue 7y ago
    I'd argue that Linux is moreso 1 and 2 ("highly-integrated first-class hardware support" and support for all third-party components under the sun"). You rarely have to install any drivers. The kernel comes with drivers for almost every driver under the sun. On the other hand, there are a lot of CVEs for Linux, and while they do get fixed quickly, the security vulnerability surface area is quite large. Especially considering the sheer size of kitchen sink kernel that is.
imtringued 7y ago
I switched to Linux in June 2018 with the intention of playing less games simply because Linux couldn't run most of them. It worked pretty well. Then a month later Valve released Steam Play and Proton which ruined my perfect plan. I spent far more hours playing Windows games on Linux than I had intended.

by ulkesh 7y ago

m3at 7y ago

Flagship gaming support from Windows, Stability and flexibility from Linux, and Design principles from MacOS I would love such an OS too! Sadly I'm not aware of anything that ticks the three, but at least ElementaryOS [1] attempts to tackle the last two. I enjoyed it three years ago, though I had to move to MacOS for work so I'm unsure about how it is now. [1] https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/

screye 7y ago

> Stability and flexibility from Linux I might have been using linux wrong. Because as a daily driver media consumption device, it has been anything but stable. I suspect it is because it was a laptop with a discrete graphics card, which for some reason completely trips linux up. > Forced updates in Windows 10 I think this has been solved in a recent update

josephagoss 7y ago
Linux is extremely stable as a headless server. We have instances running for years with no issues. That is where Linux's reputation for stability most likely comes from. However as a desktop machine mainly used for media consumption I would take windows over linux any day. No doubt due to poor graphics and audio driver support.
- WarDores 7y ago
  This. The Nvidia drivers are getting there, but they're nowhere close to Windows. Tend to mess with audio, have to restart to use a dual monitor setup (yes, I've googled). It's a real hassle for anything but a basic setup.
  - saghm 7y ago
    > The Nvidia drivers are getting there, but they're nowhere close to Windows...have to restart to use a dual monitor setup I have a desktop with a discrete Nvidia card, and on Linux I'm easily able to turn on my second monitor after the system is already booted and have it be recognized. I'm super curious to hear what issues you ran into with this sort of thing, because it all works without hassle for me.
    - WarDores 7y ago
      The issue I'm having is that Nvidia driver 418 doesn't support my HDMI out (still haven't figured out why), but 390 has atrocious power management. So when I'm mobile, I switch to 418 (restart), and at my desk back to 390 (restart again).
      - saghm 7y ago
        Ah, yeah, that does sound extremely painful. I'm guessing you've already tried using noveau to see if that works better?
- screye 7y ago
  > Linux is extremely stable as a headless server. No question. I love my linux VMs. They are rock solid. > for media consumption I would take windows over linux any day. No doubt due to poor graphics and audio driver support. This is me right now. You boiled it down to the essence of it.
misterdoubt 7y ago
You might have been using Linux wrong, but there are also better and worse hardware choices and distro choices. There are laptops with friendly hardware that you can run anything on; there are some that will fight anything but their original OS. I have been running Linux daily at home because it's been rock solid for years on my home laptops. And that has involved plenty of media consumption. I used to dual boot, but on the latest I couldn't untangle Windows from 100% disk usage and failed Windows Updates -- this on a laptop that was literally a few weeks old. So long, Windows.
ccalvert 7y ago
I use Ubuntu Desktop as my primary machine and find it very stable. I use it primarily for development with WebStorm, Atom, VirtualBox, Chromium, Node, and Bash. I rarely play games on it, and my taste in games is not fancy. I handle mail, videos, and writing chores in Chrome and Firefox. I listen to music via Spotify. I use the video card built into my motherboard. The most demanding thing I do with it is record videos that capture what I do on the screen. Perhaps I am not a typical user, but nonetheless, I rarely have trouble with Linux. Everything just works.

waddlesplash 7y ago

Well, this is very similar to the Haiku project's goals, though of course on many of these fronts we're only partway there. Care to come join us? :)

dleslie 7y ago
Hey, thanks for sticking to it. You're doing important work.
stOneskull 7y ago
Last time I checked it out, I was very impressed. Especially the HaikuDepot. Pretty cool collection of software including KDE stuff, and latest python. I had some problems (mainly with booting, I had to do it in a roundabout rEFInd way) and thought I'd check it out again in October. Thank you for your work on it. Nice to see you here.
asdfman123 7y ago
Join Haiku Project / Write lots of code to make a / Unified OS
ulkesh 7y ago
I’ll be happy to give it a go in a VM to start :)
- waddlesplash 7y ago
  Please do! You can find us in Freenode#haiku; feel free to join there and send us feedback, etc. :)

derefr 7y ago

> Things like: Forced updates in Windows 10, certain lack of hardware, application, and game support in Linux, and MacOS "requiring" Apple hardware I'm pretty sure you've discovered a simplex (a thing like a CAP triangle) here! These all trade off against one-another: 1. highly-integrated first-class hardware support 2. support for all third-party components under the sun 3. low security-vulnerability surface (and thus a long security-critical update cadence) Windows picks 1 and 2 at the expense of 3. Linux picks 2 and 3 at the expense of 1. Apple picks 1 and 3 at the expense of 2. (Hackintoshes trade some of 1 for some of 2, ending up fully satisfying neither.) I'm pretty sure you can't have 100% of all three, no matter your resources. They're trade-offs, not in time/effort, but in design-space.

dnautics 7y ago
Is linux really 2 and 3 at the expense of 1? I've had several issues where hardware doesn't work on windows, but does work on linux.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 7y ago
  I think "highly-integrated" and "first class" are the key terms here. Linux supports much more consumer hardware out of the box than it did a decade ago, but if you ever do encounter a driver issue, you'll need to know your way around the terminal and be able to google-fu your way around some forums. The people on this site might be able to get through it without too much pain, but we're in the minority. Windows definitely supports more hardware out of the box, and even when something doesn't work, it gives you some nice GUIs to manage the drivers. At the end of the day writing drivers sucks, and it's tough to provide support for the virtually endless supply of components and periphs without paying people to write those drivers.
- winter_blue 7y ago
  I'd argue that Linux is moreso 1 and 2 ("highly-integrated first-class hardware support" and support for all third-party components under the sun"). You rarely have to install any drivers. The kernel comes with drivers for almost every driver under the sun. On the other hand, there are a lot of CVEs for Linux, and while they do get fixed quickly, the security vulnerability surface area is quite large. Especially considering the sheer size of kitchen sink kernel that is.

imtringued 7y ago

I switched to Linux in June 2018 with the intention of playing less games simply because Linux couldn't run most of them. It worked pretty well. Then a month later Valve released Steam Play and Proton which ruined my perfect plan. I spent far more hours playing Windows games on Linux than I had intended.