4 ms·

Personal freedoms have always had risks, but is it really warranted to take them away in this case and not offer a way to get them back in any shape or form? L

Personal freedoms have always had risks, but is it really warranted to take them away in this case and not offer a way to get them back in any shape or form? Looking at recent Samsung devices, is Google Services Framework really that integral to the security of my device that I must be forbidden from disabling that package? Isn't there an alternative way to achieve a comparable level of security, but without slurping up my personal data? The consequence of security does not have to be a complete loss of control, nor the inability to prevent in a practical way the collection of our personal data. Not to mention the whole security argument falls apart when perfectly fine Android devices are left without security updates 2-3 years after purchase.

traviscj 7y ago
I think there could be an argument that the personal freedom you mention, when risks are realized, can degrade the experience of the world at large. Lazy example: a botnet running on many machines compromised as described above sending spam email to innocents. I’m still on the fence about whether that justifies their protocols. I think I actually lean toward “no”, but I’ve also lately become keenly aware of the difficulty of even simple things like keeping everything up to date, and my lack of real insight into what those updates include. If I’m effectively trusting them anyway, might as well trust them to get it to me ASAP, right? I’m also enough of a realist to assume there’s a Fight Club style “A times B times C > X” reputational/financial risk logic going on here. If there’s few enough of the devices out there, it’s probably cheaper to apologize (legally, as in settle).
snowwrestler 7y ago
Apple is not taking away personal freedoms. They create products, which they offer for sale. People can freely choose to purchase those products or not. Apple has opinions about how to make products, which are embodied in the products they offer for sale. Other companies have different opinions. This is how a market is supposed to work. I don’t think we should talk about Apple as if they are a government taking away freedoms. It confers too much authority upon Apple and too much victimhood upon customers.
- krageon 7y ago
  Are you seriously making the case we should be thankful about the restrictions they put on their products, because at least they exist? Is it somehow a problem to wish for things to be better, even though they could be worse? They patently did contribute to the erosion of freedoms that people fundamentally used to have with their hardware.
- turk73 7y ago
  I can think of many examples of how Apple victimizes its own customers, though. From soldered on RAM and SSDs to all this spy bullshit, it's a brave new world for regular folks to have to navigate, most of whom are not technically savvy enough to even understand what is going on. "Other companies have different opinions." Currently, there isn't much choice in the smart phone space. Maybe the Librem phones when those become available, if ever, but nobody is looking out for us, it's all just NSA spy-friendly bullshit 100%.
- cortic 7y ago
  That argument kind of breaks down when you have a monopoly on the market like Apple and Google do. If there isn't a viable option to their product then i'm not free to choose. We shouldn't be talking about Apple like a government, but the government should probably be regulating this a bit better;

traviscj 7y ago

I think there could be an argument that the personal freedom you mention, when risks are realized, can degrade the experience of the world at large. Lazy example: a botnet running on many machines compromised as described above sending spam email to innocents. I’m still on the fence about whether that justifies their protocols. I think I actually lean toward “no”, but I’ve also lately become keenly aware of the difficulty of even simple things like keeping everything up to date, and my lack of real insight into what those updates include. If I’m effectively trusting them anyway, might as well trust them to get it to me ASAP, right? I’m also enough of a realist to assume there’s a Fight Club style “A times B times C > X” reputational/financial risk logic going on here. If there’s few enough of the devices out there, it’s probably cheaper to apologize (legally, as in settle).

snowwrestler 7y ago

Apple is not taking away personal freedoms. They create products, which they offer for sale. People can freely choose to purchase those products or not. Apple has opinions about how to make products, which are embodied in the products they offer for sale. Other companies have different opinions. This is how a market is supposed to work. I don’t think we should talk about Apple as if they are a government taking away freedoms. It confers too much authority upon Apple and too much victimhood upon customers.

krageon 7y ago
Are you seriously making the case we should be thankful about the restrictions they put on their products, because at least they exist? Is it somehow a problem to wish for things to be better, even though they could be worse? They patently did contribute to the erosion of freedoms that people fundamentally used to have with their hardware.
turk73 7y ago
I can think of many examples of how Apple victimizes its own customers, though. From soldered on RAM and SSDs to all this spy bullshit, it's a brave new world for regular folks to have to navigate, most of whom are not technically savvy enough to even understand what is going on. "Other companies have different opinions." Currently, there isn't much choice in the smart phone space. Maybe the Librem phones when those become available, if ever, but nobody is looking out for us, it's all just NSA spy-friendly bullshit 100%.
cortic 7y ago
That argument kind of breaks down when you have a monopoly on the market like Apple and Google do. If there isn't a viable option to their product then i'm not free to choose. We shouldn't be talking about Apple like a government, but the government should probably be regulating this a bit better;