5 ms·

DoorDash still hasn’t changed its tipping policy

73 points by t23 7y ago

avs733 7y ago
of course they haven't. Why would they? There is no penalty for just lying to their customers and continuing to profit from it.
- peteretep 7y ago
  I feel like there's potential for a class-action lawsuit there on behalf of the customers.
  - avs733 7y ago
    for...?
    - hand_of_lixue 7y ago
      Bit bit where they tweeted "We're going to change this" back in July, and got a bunch of press for it? https://twitter.com/t_xu/status/1153867334685089794 https://twitter.com/t_xu/status/1153867334685089794 It shouldn't take a month to switch your tipping model to work the way it does for the rest of the industry.
    - peteretep 7y ago
      If you collect money from me saying you’re going to give it someone, and you don’t give it to someone, you stole that money from me.
- asveikau 7y ago
  There is, or maybe ought to be a penalty to getting caught and having users defect. So perhaps they are calculating one or more of: * Nobody will follow up and figure the claim that the policy will be changed was a lie * If somebody does, people won't care, or won't care enough to stop using the app
tkifxxxxvvvv 7y ago
If you cared you would tip cash. The thing is, people don't care.
- notus 7y ago
  It is inconvenient to carry cash though. I would gladly tip cash if I didn't have to drive to an ATM just to get it thereby defeating the purpose of having something delivered.
  - auspex 7y ago
    Why not keep a few hundred dollars in cash in a drawer for when you need it?
    - miranda_rights 7y ago
      It just means you have a lot of 1s and 5s laying around as you usually want small denominations for tipping, which (in my opinion) is a lot of cash to have in the house. It also means that at some point, I'm walking away from the ATM with a few hundred dollars in my pocket, which is not something I like to do from a safety perspective.
      - kaybe 7y ago
        I'd still want the cash available just in case the power goes out for a few days.
- echelon 7y ago
  I don't have, use, or want cash. My wallet consists of my ID and a few credit cards and nothing else. Checks are another anachronism I don't own or use.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
noodlesUK 7y ago
This is incredibly annoying. Whilst I don’t really agree with tipping, it’s a strongly ingrained cultural norm in the US, and what I really don’t agree with is lying to your customers. I made a DoorDash order just a few minutes ago and it was the first time I had tipped cash to a delivery driver. The driver seemed to be pretty pleased. I’d use an alternative delivery service but I’m not sure which to use, and none of them seem to have the market penetration doordash has here in the NW.
- Simulacra 7y ago
  I stopped using delivery apps because of the tipping. I hate it and I'm doing my best to avoid it.
  - noodlesUK 7y ago
    Unfortunately when you’re in suburban US and you can’t or don’t want to drive, you’re stuck with little other choice sometimes...
    - kaybe 7y ago
      Can't you just call the restaurants themselves? Or did they stop their own deliveries?
      - Konnstann 7y ago
        A lot of restaurants have switched to delivery through third-party services, which is a shame because the quality of service has really gone down. The treatment of the workers is also significantly worse.
- bliblah 7y ago
  Don't use a delivery service that isn't actually performed by the restaurant. Every one of these services pays below minimum wage to their drivers and will use every trick in the book to make sure that any cost saving measures goes downstream to lower the amount paid to the drivers.
esotericn 7y ago
Tip cash. What, you can't be bothered? It's a faff? Someone's job is to cart shit around the city, for you. To literally be your bitch. Step up.
- moreira 7y ago
  What is it, in your eyes, that makes their job more worthy of tipping than any other job? It’s a job, they get paid. I ordered something that cost $X including delivery, I expect that to be the final total, not $X + “step up”. If they’re not getting paid enough, enforce a higher minimum wage (it is also a US-specific issue; tipping isn’t the norm in a lot of other developed countries and the world doesn’t end).
  - V-eHGsd_ 7y ago
    > What is it, in your eyes, that makes their job more worthy of tipping than any other job? I'll bite: they're bringing a bespoke something to my door, i'm in my pajamas when I collect it, and I'm consuming it inside of 10 minutes. next?
  - untog 7y ago
    They're worthy of tipping because they get paid shit-all. As you say, the actual answer here is tightening minimum wage laws so that they're actually effective, but given the state of DC these days I'm not holding out hope. So I tip.
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      If nobody tipped, restaurants and services like DoorDash would be forced to pay employees more or nobody would take the job. Yet, we've made it into a cultural thing, so employers have dropped wages (and gotten legal protection for doing so) accordingly. That being said, I think asking for a tip before a service has been rendered is really weird and really screws up whatever sense there was in tipping. I find it increasingly hard to tip for things like DoorDash because I'm already charged directly for the service separately from the product, so that signals to me that the person is already getting paid. I don't tip my package/mail delivery person, so why should I tip my food delivery person?
timoth3y 7y ago
How is this not wage theft? It's been a very long time since I've waited tables, but a company keeping tips in this way is (or at least was) in serious violation of US labor laws.
- codyogden 7y ago
  It's my understanding that they skirt around this because the DoorDash drivers are contractors, not employees. Literally, when you tip using the app, you are tipping DoorDash, the company, not the contracted driver.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  Doordash says they never keep tips; they pay drivers the full amount of your tip always, plus some extra if you don’t tip enough. You can argue that’s not the right way to look at it, but it’s hard to argue that it’s factually wrong in a way that’d violate labor laws. No worker is getting less of a tip payout than the amount you tipped them.
  - jobigoud 7y ago
    Aren't tips taxed differently than wage in the US? Anyway you can also see this as DoorDash always paying the wage and pocketing the tips. When the user tip goes towards the wage it's no longer a tip. If they were taxed differently it would be obvious.
duxup 7y ago
I've just tried to avoid the gig economy generally now. It is all about pushing risk onto "contractors" and customers.
lacker 7y ago
It would be honest for them to simply remove tipping from their app. You don’t tip the UPS guy who delivers packages, why should the social consensus be to tip the DoorDash guy who also delivers packages. Pay them more to make up for it.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  UPS guy has a union and gets paid a living wage. DoorDash can’t afford to do the same.
  - spectramax 7y ago
    Should we let the market forces play that out? No tip, less incentive to join Door Dash as a driver. Also fix the minimum wage laws.
    - gempir 7y ago
      If you let that play out DoorDash goes out because in reality it isn't feasible to sustainably deliver to your doorstep in minutes. UPS does it in a 1 day timeframe and not with food which could get cold or something and they deliver to a lot more houses at once. While DoorDash targets 1 customers house and lets 1 biker drive there. If you want to pay for him to have a fair wage then you probably wouldn't order from DoorDash anymore because it's too expensive
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        That would exactly be letting the market play out. At the moment tips are a hidden cost that customers don't see or think about when they order. It effectively allows Doordash (and others) to present their service as being cheaper than it really is. If presenting the full cost upfront means people stop using the service then it simply means that there is actually no viable market.
        ukoki 7y ago

73 points by t23 7y ago

of course they haven't. Why would they? There is no penalty for just lying to their customers and continuing to profit from it.

peteretep 7y ago
I feel like there's potential for a class-action lawsuit there on behalf of the customers.
- avs733 7y ago
  for...?
  - hand_of_lixue 7y ago
    Bit bit where they tweeted "We're going to change this" back in July, and got a bunch of press for it? https://twitter.com/t_xu/status/1153867334685089794 https://twitter.com/t_xu/status/1153867334685089794 It shouldn't take a month to switch your tipping model to work the way it does for the rest of the industry.
  - peteretep 7y ago
    If you collect money from me saying you’re going to give it someone, and you don’t give it to someone, you stole that money from me.
asveikau 7y ago
There is, or maybe ought to be a penalty to getting caught and having users defect. So perhaps they are calculating one or more of: * Nobody will follow up and figure the claim that the policy will be changed was a lie * If somebody does, people won't care, or won't care enough to stop using the app

tkifxxxxvvvv 7y ago

If you cared you would tip cash. The thing is, people don't care.

notus 7y ago
It is inconvenient to carry cash though. I would gladly tip cash if I didn't have to drive to an ATM just to get it thereby defeating the purpose of having something delivered.
- auspex 7y ago
  Why not keep a few hundred dollars in cash in a drawer for when you need it?
  - miranda_rights 7y ago
    It just means you have a lot of 1s and 5s laying around as you usually want small denominations for tipping, which (in my opinion) is a lot of cash to have in the house. It also means that at some point, I'm walking away from the ATM with a few hundred dollars in my pocket, which is not something I like to do from a safety perspective.
    - kaybe 7y ago
      I'd still want the cash available just in case the power goes out for a few days.
echelon 7y ago
I don't have, use, or want cash. My wallet consists of my ID and a few credit cards and nothing else. Checks are another anachronism I don't own or use.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

noodlesUK 7y ago

This is incredibly annoying. Whilst I don’t really agree with tipping, it’s a strongly ingrained cultural norm in the US, and what I really don’t agree with is lying to your customers. I made a DoorDash order just a few minutes ago and it was the first time I had tipped cash to a delivery driver. The driver seemed to be pretty pleased. I’d use an alternative delivery service but I’m not sure which to use, and none of them seem to have the market penetration doordash has here in the NW.

Simulacra 7y ago
I stopped using delivery apps because of the tipping. I hate it and I'm doing my best to avoid it.
- noodlesUK 7y ago
  Unfortunately when you’re in suburban US and you can’t or don’t want to drive, you’re stuck with little other choice sometimes...
  - kaybe 7y ago
    Can't you just call the restaurants themselves? Or did they stop their own deliveries?
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      A lot of restaurants have switched to delivery through third-party services, which is a shame because the quality of service has really gone down. The treatment of the workers is also significantly worse.
bliblah 7y ago
Don't use a delivery service that isn't actually performed by the restaurant. Every one of these services pays below minimum wage to their drivers and will use every trick in the book to make sure that any cost saving measures goes downstream to lower the amount paid to the drivers.

esotericn 7y ago

Tip cash. What, you can't be bothered? It's a faff? Someone's job is to cart shit around the city, for you. To literally be your bitch. Step up.

moreira 7y ago
What is it, in your eyes, that makes their job more worthy of tipping than any other job? It’s a job, they get paid. I ordered something that cost $X including delivery, I expect that to be the final total, not $X + “step up”. If they’re not getting paid enough, enforce a higher minimum wage (it is also a US-specific issue; tipping isn’t the norm in a lot of other developed countries and the world doesn’t end).
- V-eHGsd_ 7y ago
  > What is it, in your eyes, that makes their job more worthy of tipping than any other job? I'll bite: they're bringing a bespoke something to my door, i'm in my pajamas when I collect it, and I'm consuming it inside of 10 minutes. next?
- untog 7y ago
  They're worthy of tipping because they get paid shit-all. As you say, the actual answer here is tightening minimum wage laws so that they're actually effective, but given the state of DC these days I'm not holding out hope. So I tip.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    If nobody tipped, restaurants and services like DoorDash would be forced to pay employees more or nobody would take the job. Yet, we've made it into a cultural thing, so employers have dropped wages (and gotten legal protection for doing so) accordingly. That being said, I think asking for a tip before a service has been rendered is really weird and really screws up whatever sense there was in tipping. I find it increasingly hard to tip for things like DoorDash because I'm already charged directly for the service separately from the product, so that signals to me that the person is already getting paid. I don't tip my package/mail delivery person, so why should I tip my food delivery person?

timoth3y 7y ago

How is this not wage theft? It's been a very long time since I've waited tables, but a company keeping tips in this way is (or at least was) in serious violation of US labor laws.

codyogden 7y ago
It's my understanding that they skirt around this because the DoorDash drivers are contractors, not employees. Literally, when you tip using the app, you are tipping DoorDash, the company, not the contracted driver.
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
Doordash says they never keep tips; they pay drivers the full amount of your tip always, plus some extra if you don’t tip enough. You can argue that’s not the right way to look at it, but it’s hard to argue that it’s factually wrong in a way that’d violate labor laws. No worker is getting less of a tip payout than the amount you tipped them.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  Aren't tips taxed differently than wage in the US? Anyway you can also see this as DoorDash always paying the wage and pocketing the tips. When the user tip goes towards the wage it's no longer a tip. If they were taxed differently it would be obvious.

duxup 7y ago

I've just tried to avoid the gig economy generally now. It is all about pushing risk onto "contractors" and customers.

lacker 7y ago

It would be honest for them to simply remove tipping from their app. You don’t tip the UPS guy who delivers packages, why should the social consensus be to tip the DoorDash guy who also delivers packages. Pay them more to make up for it.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
UPS guy has a union and gets paid a living wage. DoorDash can’t afford to do the same.
- spectramax 7y ago
  Should we let the market forces play that out? No tip, less incentive to join Door Dash as a driver. Also fix the minimum wage laws.
  - gempir 7y ago
    If you let that play out DoorDash goes out because in reality it isn't feasible to sustainably deliver to your doorstep in minutes. UPS does it in a 1 day timeframe and not with food which could get cold or something and they deliver to a lot more houses at once. While DoorDash targets 1 customers house and lets 1 biker drive there. If you want to pay for him to have a fair wage then you probably wouldn't order from DoorDash anymore because it's too expensive
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      That would exactly be letting the market play out. At the moment tips are a hidden cost that customers don't see or think about when they order. It effectively allows Doordash (and others) to present their service as being cheaper than it really is. If presenting the full cost upfront means people stop using the service then it simply means that there is actually no viable market.
      - ukoki 7y ago