5 ms·

Lots of people are overweight purely because of hormonal/genetic factors, and couldn't lose it no matter how hard they were willing to work. Plus, depression is

by _bxg1 7y ago

Lots of people are overweight purely because of hormonal/genetic factors, and couldn't lose it no matter how hard they were willing to work. Plus, depression is a contributing factor to weight gain, so maybe think twice before trying to shame people into losing weight.

chiefalchemist 7y ago
> "Lots of people are overweight purely because of hormonal/genetic factors" Yes. That's true. But that's not why the obesity rate is so high. We know this. As for depression, fair play. But let's not forget that many insist exercise is an effective way to deal with depression. Let's also be mindful that excess weight causes hormonal changes that are also mood-altering. So perhaps your cause v effect - at least in a good number of cases - is in reverse? Finally, I never said shaming, nor did I imply it. What I said was, if we're going to normalize certain behaviors for individuals then we should not be surprised when those things spread "virally" throughout the rest of the society. So, to your point, when we normalize food as a means for self-medicating depression we're not doing anyone any favors. To clarify. I agree with your thoughts in general. However, they are the 20% (at best). What about the other 80%? I also like to add, we're doing it "your way" and frankly, it's clear to see, it's not working. The medical costs associated with T2 diabetes is massive. In nearly all cases, T2D is generally preventable.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  > when we normalize food as a means for self-medicating depression I don't think literally anybody is normalizing that. Everyone knows that's unhealthy. You won't get criticized for pointing it out. > Finally, I never said shaming, nor did I imply it. > Mention anyone else's unhealthy habits (e.g., weight or lack of exercise) and you're label a bully. You specifically mentioned not just habits, but weight, as something to be criticized. I think we've gotten pretty good as a culture about encouraging the right habits, but the weight itself is what many people have limited or no control over.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    > " Everyone knows that's unhealthy." For the last couple hours I watched a few dozen+ people order 20oz+ high-sugar coffee drinks from that place with the green logo. The everybody you're talking about is not here, nor is it at my local supermarket when every week I see people load up on soda, cookies, etc. People that clearly don't need the calories. So where is this awaremenss and knowledge? > "the weight itself is what many people have limited or no control over." Yes, I realize it's a fairly complicated issue (e.g., gut bacteria likely play a role). However, that doesn't mean we normalize unhealthy decisions (like the ones I've mentioned above) and then cry about the cost of healthcare. We can't openly promote "love your body no matter what" and then purposely fail to add "and btw, you're going to die younger." We can't deny the value of exercise and replace that with "beat your depression with ice cream. it's ok..." That's just not working. Yes. Agreed. Some people have medical issues (e.g., some neuro meds are notorious for putting on weight) but that's not everyone. That doesn't explain the obesity rate. And that certainly doesn't prevent humans from "gravitating to the norm." p.s. For the record, I drink my coffee black. And there's a good reason why I've learned to do that.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    I think this context might help: "1 in 5 kindergarten children in NYC is obese." "Nationally, healthcare expenses related to obesity is $1.72 TRILLION, which is almost 10% of the GDP." https://www.wnyc.org/story/nyc-free-lunch/ https://www.wnyc.org/story/nyc-free-lunch/
nradov 7y ago
This is incorrect. Hormonal and genetic factors can have a minor impact on appetite and metabolic rate. However all people will lose weight if they consume fewer calories than they expend. Eating less isn't "work". It's literally the opposite of work. (I understand that some people find this emotionally difficult.)
- _bxg1 7y ago
  https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-become-overweight https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-be... > Research suggests that for some people, genes account for just 25% of the predisposition to be overweight, while for others the genetic influence is as high as 70% to 80%. Using Google also isn't "work", and neither is being considerate of others who don't have your exact same set of strengths and weaknesses.
  - nradov 7y ago
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? For every person there is a level of energy input below which they will lose weight. Genetics plays a role but even in extreme cases the impact is no more than a few hundred kcal/day. Being considerate is great, but making excuses and pretending that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply doesn't help anyone.

by _bxg1 7y ago

chiefalchemist 7y ago

> "Lots of people are overweight purely because of hormonal/genetic factors" Yes. That's true. But that's not why the obesity rate is so high. We know this. As for depression, fair play. But let's not forget that many insist exercise is an effective way to deal with depression. Let's also be mindful that excess weight causes hormonal changes that are also mood-altering. So perhaps your cause v effect - at least in a good number of cases - is in reverse? Finally, I never said shaming, nor did I imply it. What I said was, if we're going to normalize certain behaviors for individuals then we should not be surprised when those things spread "virally" throughout the rest of the society. So, to your point, when we normalize food as a means for self-medicating depression we're not doing anyone any favors. To clarify. I agree with your thoughts in general. However, they are the 20% (at best). What about the other 80%? I also like to add, we're doing it "your way" and frankly, it's clear to see, it's not working. The medical costs associated with T2 diabetes is massive. In nearly all cases, T2D is generally preventable.

_bxg1 7y ago
> when we normalize food as a means for self-medicating depression I don't think literally anybody is normalizing that. Everyone knows that's unhealthy. You won't get criticized for pointing it out. > Finally, I never said shaming, nor did I imply it. > Mention anyone else's unhealthy habits (e.g., weight or lack of exercise) and you're label a bully. You specifically mentioned not just habits, but weight, as something to be criticized. I think we've gotten pretty good as a culture about encouraging the right habits, but the weight itself is what many people have limited or no control over.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  > " Everyone knows that's unhealthy." For the last couple hours I watched a few dozen+ people order 20oz+ high-sugar coffee drinks from that place with the green logo. The everybody you're talking about is not here, nor is it at my local supermarket when every week I see people load up on soda, cookies, etc. People that clearly don't need the calories. So where is this awaremenss and knowledge? > "the weight itself is what many people have limited or no control over." Yes, I realize it's a fairly complicated issue (e.g., gut bacteria likely play a role). However, that doesn't mean we normalize unhealthy decisions (like the ones I've mentioned above) and then cry about the cost of healthcare. We can't openly promote "love your body no matter what" and then purposely fail to add "and btw, you're going to die younger." We can't deny the value of exercise and replace that with "beat your depression with ice cream. it's ok..." That's just not working. Yes. Agreed. Some people have medical issues (e.g., some neuro meds are notorious for putting on weight) but that's not everyone. That doesn't explain the obesity rate. And that certainly doesn't prevent humans from "gravitating to the norm." p.s. For the record, I drink my coffee black. And there's a good reason why I've learned to do that.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  I think this context might help: "1 in 5 kindergarten children in NYC is obese." "Nationally, healthcare expenses related to obesity is $1.72 TRILLION, which is almost 10% of the GDP." https://www.wnyc.org/story/nyc-free-lunch/ https://www.wnyc.org/story/nyc-free-lunch/

nradov 7y ago

This is incorrect. Hormonal and genetic factors can have a minor impact on appetite and metabolic rate. However all people will lose weight if they consume fewer calories than they expend. Eating less isn't "work". It's literally the opposite of work. (I understand that some people find this emotionally difficult.)

_bxg1 7y ago
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-become-overweight https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-be... > Research suggests that for some people, genes account for just 25% of the predisposition to be overweight, while for others the genetic influence is as high as 70% to 80%. Using Google also isn't "work", and neither is being considerate of others who don't have your exact same set of strengths and weaknesses.
- nradov 7y ago
  I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? For every person there is a level of energy input below which they will lose weight. Genetics plays a role but even in extreme cases the impact is no more than a few hundred kcal/day. Being considerate is great, but making excuses and pretending that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply doesn't help anyone.