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I'm not an advocate for the US Political system. Having grown up in Europe and moved to Australia. Therefore your assumptions that I'd use the US as the benchma

I'm not an advocate for the US Political system. Having grown up in Europe and moved to Australia. Therefore your assumptions that I'd use the US as the benchmark I set for my democratic wishes is misguided and the majority of your argument falls flat as a consequence. Democracy allows the very thing your discouraging, _choice_. Your democracy or rather the US democracy is not my own. And for the arguments you've made, I agree. Fortunately I don't live in the US and never have. Likely never will. Your criticisms of the US version of Democracy are valid, fortunately Democracy allows that recourse and discussion if not out right encourages it. The Chinese political system I cannot imagine would be so welcoming of this type of discourse. That you defend and disguise the Chinese Dictatorship as a potential alternative to Democracy, this argument leaves me flabbergasted.

Aeolun 7y ago
Clearly it is an alternative to democracy. It’s existed more or less successfully for some 80 years now. The question is if it’s really a place any of us (who grew up in a democracy) would want to live. The ethos of the CCP is just fundamentally incompatible with my own worldview, even though I can admit to their effectiveness so far. I’m not really willing to accept the existence of such a country in my world either.
- LilBytes 7y ago
  Yes, totalitarian dictatorships are a literal alternative to Democracy, though I feel we're nitpicking on the semantics of my words here. When I say I don't see Totalitarian Dictatorships as an alternative, I don't mean in the literal sense, I mean in the viable sense. In the literal sense, yes, it's an alternative to Democracy. As is building a house on sand is a literal but not viable alternative to building a house on concrete. I don't think many would want to live under a Chinese authoritarian rule given the Democratic alternatives. Or perhaps they would until they're rounded up in Xinjiang camps, shot in the face with rubber bullets for wanting to protect their current way of life or ran over by Tanks by asking for change to better their way of life. But if we've seen what the conversations that are occurring in China about these violent acts taken by the CCP, it's clear the populace think it's in their best interests at this time. Though it's worth adding that the message we receive about the CCP's actions is very different to those living in China. I recommend anyone to watch the documentary created by Vice below about the atrocities that are occurring in Xinjiang and the first hand opinions of those that live there. I would guess the opinions of those being interviewed are honest with a side of oppression. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ
  - chrischen 7y ago
    China is not a totalitarian dictatorship.
    - LilBytes 7y ago
      No? Definition: Totalitarianism is a political concept of a mode of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life.
  - ospider 7y ago
    Speaking of documentaries, I would recommend BBC's The People's Republic of Capitalism [1]. [1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf2H4YrYVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf2H4YrYVw
  - chrischen 7y ago
    > I don't think many would want to live under a Chinese authoritarian rule given the Democratic alternatives. Or perhaps they would until they're rounded up in Xinjiang camps, shot in the face with rubber bullets for wanting to protect their current way of life or ran over by Tanks by asking for change to better their way of life. There's an easy way to find out. Go poll the Chinese people. To be honest many Chinese do want to leave, but only because the country has been poor and most western countries are wealthy. This has been lessening over time.
chrischen 7y ago
I'm not defending Chinese dictatorship. And since you did not grow up educated in the US system like I was, I hardly see how you can claim I'm incorrect in stating that the US education system teaches us how democracy (particularly US democracy) is the best (if still flawed) system. That was my original point in my original post. I'm not sure why you are derailing it and turning this into a "me supporting China" thing. I do not support their regime (though I admit I"m also not subject to their regime so I'd have no reason to support them), but that doesn't mean that I also got brainwashed by the US education system.

Aeolun 7y ago

Clearly it is an alternative to democracy. It’s existed more or less successfully for some 80 years now. The question is if it’s really a place any of us (who grew up in a democracy) would want to live. The ethos of the CCP is just fundamentally incompatible with my own worldview, even though I can admit to their effectiveness so far. I’m not really willing to accept the existence of such a country in my world either.

LilBytes 7y ago
Yes, totalitarian dictatorships are a literal alternative to Democracy, though I feel we're nitpicking on the semantics of my words here. When I say I don't see Totalitarian Dictatorships as an alternative, I don't mean in the literal sense, I mean in the viable sense. In the literal sense, yes, it's an alternative to Democracy. As is building a house on sand is a literal but not viable alternative to building a house on concrete. I don't think many would want to live under a Chinese authoritarian rule given the Democratic alternatives. Or perhaps they would until they're rounded up in Xinjiang camps, shot in the face with rubber bullets for wanting to protect their current way of life or ran over by Tanks by asking for change to better their way of life. But if we've seen what the conversations that are occurring in China about these violent acts taken by the CCP, it's clear the populace think it's in their best interests at this time. Though it's worth adding that the message we receive about the CCP's actions is very different to those living in China. I recommend anyone to watch the documentary created by Vice below about the atrocities that are occurring in Xinjiang and the first hand opinions of those that live there. I would guess the opinions of those being interviewed are honest with a side of oppression. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ
- chrischen 7y ago
  China is not a totalitarian dictatorship.
  - LilBytes 7y ago
    No? Definition: Totalitarianism is a political concept of a mode of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life.
- ospider 7y ago
  Speaking of documentaries, I would recommend BBC's The People's Republic of Capitalism [1]. [1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf2H4YrYVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtf2H4YrYVw
- chrischen 7y ago
  > I don't think many would want to live under a Chinese authoritarian rule given the Democratic alternatives. Or perhaps they would until they're rounded up in Xinjiang camps, shot in the face with rubber bullets for wanting to protect their current way of life or ran over by Tanks by asking for change to better their way of life. There's an easy way to find out. Go poll the Chinese people. To be honest many Chinese do want to leave, but only because the country has been poor and most western countries are wealthy. This has been lessening over time.

chrischen 7y ago

I'm not defending Chinese dictatorship. And since you did not grow up educated in the US system like I was, I hardly see how you can claim I'm incorrect in stating that the US education system teaches us how democracy (particularly US democracy) is the best (if still flawed) system. That was my original point in my original post. I'm not sure why you are derailing it and turning this into a "me supporting China" thing. I do not support their regime (though I admit I"m also not subject to their regime so I'd have no reason to support them), but that doesn't mean that I also got brainwashed by the US education system.