5 ms·

"Here's the question: a bunch of young people in Hong Kong are standing up to their government, at terrific personal risk, to fight for basic human rights. Wi

by _bxg1 7y ago

"Here's the question: a bunch of young people in Hong Kong are standing up to their government, at terrific personal risk, to fight for basic human rights. Will a bunch of Twitter employees, at far less risk, stand up to their CEO and refuse to be used as a weapon against them?" If anyone here works at Twitter, please, stand up for what's right.

devoply 7y ago
Let's call out Jack Dorsey for not being as progressive as he claims.
- seppin 7y ago
  His loyalty is to his company. Why would you expect anything else?
  - Balgair 7y ago
    Which one? He's the CEO of Square too.
- klyrs 7y ago
  Lol progressive. Imagine Dorsey holding Trump accountable to the same TOS everybody else is supposed to follow.
sieabahlpark 7y ago
This goes for Google, Facebook, and Twitter. They're all just chasing ad money.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  And especially Apple, who handed over iCloud keys [1] and an iMessage keyserver to a company in the direct control of the Chinese government, allowing unfettered surveillance of Chinese users' email, calendars, documents, and even non-Chinese users' iMessage communications [2] with Chinese users. Yahoo! was once raked over the coals for being a tiny fraction as evil. [3] [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy-betrayal-for-chinese-icloud-users/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yahoo https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yaho...
  - ajxs 7y ago
    Let us not for a minute forget Google's Dragonfly Project. It's actually quite concerning that Google has refused to work on DoD projects but continues to work in China.
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      Dragonfly could hypothetically launch at some point in the indefinite future, assuming Google's employees don't continue to protest it. Apple has already given the iCloud keys to the PRC without a whimper from any Apple employees. Both are bad, but one is many orders of magnitude worse because it is already actually implemented and causing harm.
Leary 7y ago
Does anyone with knowledge of Twitter's terms of service know which rules are being broken?
- seppin 7y ago
  Maybe Twitter's TOS was flawed from the start and shouldn't the bar for judgement now?
- marak830 7y ago
  They came for me, but hey, the TOC was covered, so let's ignore it.
- shakna 7y ago
  I would expect a few from the Rules [0] _could_ apply. Depends a bit on exactly how they're phrasing things. > You may not promote violence against, threaten, or harass other people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, disability, or serious disease > You may not engage in the targeted harassment of someone, or incite other people to do so. > You may not use Twitter’s services in a manner intended to artificially amplify or suppress information or engage in behavior that manipulates or disrupts people’s experience on Twitter. [0] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules
- EpicEng 7y ago
  Why does it matter?
coldtea 7y ago
And why would those Twitter employees be able to judge what's the better option in a foreign sovereign affair (especially given the quite low knowledge most Americans have of world affairs)?
- adventured 7y ago
  Because basic human rights are in fact an objective value, not subjective. You don't need to be inside of North Korea to be able to judge that the South Korean approach is superior in all regards. If 100% of the people in a country believe state slavery is ideal, that no human rights is ideal, all that means is that 100% of the people in that country are wrong. Vaccines are also not a subjective value, speaking generally, and the morality of Hong Kong vs China in terms of human rights and systems, is every bit as clear of a matter as whether vaccines are good or bad. One is better than the other and it is very easy to prove in numerous obvious ways. If 100% of Americans believe vaccines are bad, that doesn't mean they're right. A proper human morality stems from what best provides for a high quality of life for humans. The basis of a proper morality is what human life needs to flourish and we can test and track and prove it out. We've already figured this out in fact and it isn't the repressive Chinese authoritarian model (it's a lot more like Canada, Denmark, Japan, Sweden, Finland, Austria, etc).
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Because basic human rights are in fact an objective value, not subjective. Well, wars that killed tons of people were supposedly fought for "basic human rights" and "democracy" too, so there's that. >If 100% of the people in a country believe state slavery is ideal, that no human rights is ideal, all that means is that 100% of the people in that country are wrong. And whose to say? Some other country based on its own culture, and treating it as some some of universal laws of physics? >Vaccines are also not a subjective value That's neither here, nor there, because vaccines are the subject of scientific study, and results can be measured. Preferred way of government, laws, ethical questions, etc, are cultural, and should be up to the people.
    - 7y ago

by _bxg1 7y ago

devoply 7y ago

Let's call out Jack Dorsey for not being as progressive as he claims.

seppin 7y ago
His loyalty is to his company. Why would you expect anything else?
- Balgair 7y ago
  Which one? He's the CEO of Square too.
klyrs 7y ago
Lol progressive. Imagine Dorsey holding Trump accountable to the same TOS everybody else is supposed to follow.

sieabahlpark 7y ago

This goes for Google, Facebook, and Twitter. They're all just chasing ad money.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
And especially Apple, who handed over iCloud keys [1] and an iMessage keyserver to a company in the direct control of the Chinese government, allowing unfettered surveillance of Chinese users' email, calendars, documents, and even non-Chinese users' iMessage communications [2] with Chinese users. Yahoo! was once raked over the coals for being a tiny fraction as evil. [3] [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy-betrayal-for-chinese-icloud-users/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yahoo https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yaho...
- ajxs 7y ago
  Let us not for a minute forget Google's Dragonfly Project. It's actually quite concerning that Google has refused to work on DoD projects but continues to work in China.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    Dragonfly could hypothetically launch at some point in the indefinite future, assuming Google's employees don't continue to protest it. Apple has already given the iCloud keys to the PRC without a whimper from any Apple employees. Both are bad, but one is many orders of magnitude worse because it is already actually implemented and causing harm.

Leary 7y ago

Does anyone with knowledge of Twitter's terms of service know which rules are being broken?

seppin 7y ago
Maybe Twitter's TOS was flawed from the start and shouldn't the bar for judgement now?
marak830 7y ago
They came for me, but hey, the TOC was covered, so let's ignore it.
shakna 7y ago
I would expect a few from the Rules [0] _could_ apply. Depends a bit on exactly how they're phrasing things. > You may not promote violence against, threaten, or harass other people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, disability, or serious disease > You may not engage in the targeted harassment of someone, or incite other people to do so. > You may not use Twitter’s services in a manner intended to artificially amplify or suppress information or engage in behavior that manipulates or disrupts people’s experience on Twitter. [0] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules
EpicEng 7y ago
Why does it matter?

coldtea 7y ago

And why would those Twitter employees be able to judge what's the better option in a foreign sovereign affair (especially given the quite low knowledge most Americans have of world affairs)?

adventured 7y ago
Because basic human rights are in fact an objective value, not subjective. You don't need to be inside of North Korea to be able to judge that the South Korean approach is superior in all regards. If 100% of the people in a country believe state slavery is ideal, that no human rights is ideal, all that means is that 100% of the people in that country are wrong. Vaccines are also not a subjective value, speaking generally, and the morality of Hong Kong vs China in terms of human rights and systems, is every bit as clear of a matter as whether vaccines are good or bad. One is better than the other and it is very easy to prove in numerous obvious ways. If 100% of Americans believe vaccines are bad, that doesn't mean they're right. A proper human morality stems from what best provides for a high quality of life for humans. The basis of a proper morality is what human life needs to flourish and we can test and track and prove it out. We've already figured this out in fact and it isn't the repressive Chinese authoritarian model (it's a lot more like Canada, Denmark, Japan, Sweden, Finland, Austria, etc).
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Because basic human rights are in fact an objective value, not subjective. Well, wars that killed tons of people were supposedly fought for "basic human rights" and "democracy" too, so there's that. >If 100% of the people in a country believe state slavery is ideal, that no human rights is ideal, all that means is that 100% of the people in that country are wrong. And whose to say? Some other country based on its own culture, and treating it as some some of universal laws of physics? >Vaccines are also not a subjective value That's neither here, nor there, because vaccines are the subject of scientific study, and results can be measured. Preferred way of government, laws, ethical questions, etc, are cultural, and should be up to the people.
  - 7y ago