9 ms·

Twitter is displaying China-made ads attacking Hong Kong protesters

231 points by OrwellianChild 7y ago

07d046 7y ago
You might as well just read the Twitter thread that the article links to https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1162711159000055808 https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1162711159000055808
- SebastianKra 7y ago
  Thanks. Does anyone know how to get past these consent-walls? Outline.com doesn't seem to work...
- jialutu 7y ago
  Scrolling through the twitter message, there is a link to this quora article, makes an enlightening read: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-media-bias-in-reporting-Hong-Kong-ongoing-unrest/answer/Gordon-Hsu-1?ch=3&share=0d82ad1b&srid=uYmGw https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-medi...
  - Semaphor 7y ago
    This is downvoted. Can someone explain why? That would be much more helpful for debunking the link (if it can be debunked).
    - 07d046 7y ago
      I'm not sure where the Quora link comes from, and it's a bad answer because it parrots the claim that there were hundreds of thousands at a static rally at a venue than doesn't hold more than about 20,000.
  - jammygit 7y ago
    Found two articles that corroborate the numbers to some extent. The police say 100k, organizers said 400k. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UF07P https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UF07P https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/17/oppose-violence-save-hong-kong-476000-attend-pro-police-rally-organisers-say/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/17/oppose-violence-save-h... The original protesters are claiming 1.7M by comparison: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/18/breaking-organisers-say-1-7-million-joined-hong-kong-pro-democracy-rally-police-use-force-protesters-reiterate-5-demands/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/18/breaking-organisers-sa... I find all these numbers to be incomprehensible. My whole city is only about 1M. Where do so many people go to the bathroom? Serious question
ajxs 7y ago
In my eyes this is particularly damning in light of their upper management's milquetoast, flaccid response to recent allegations of political bias. This is the same company that would have us believe that they are responsible and morally righteous enough to wield the enormous power it has without requiring any form of regulation or government intervention. I commend Tim Pool for how aggressive yet fair and level-headed his interview with Vijaya Gadde and Jack Dorsey on the Joe Rogan show was. Vijaya Gadde left an incredibly bad impression on me from that interview. Striking me as incredibly duplicitous, disingenuous and dishonest. Jack Dorsey came off looking like a moron. We've seen this same issue with Google recently as well. Both of these companies are happy to pay lip service to moral stances against the Trump administration, presumably on the basis of moral outrage against nationalism. But then they prove with their actions that they are more than willing to assist the Chinese government in cracking down on the civil liberties of their own citizens.
guerrilla 7y ago
This reminds me (in kind, not degree) of how the Yellow Vests were treated by the French state and corporate media. They were literally labeled "breakers" (as in vandals) across the board, the word "violence" was incessantly repeated in as many contexts as possible surrounding protest days, video of blatant human rights violations would often be ignored in coverage while vandalism or looting replayed nearly non-stop, etc.
- sidibe 7y ago
  I dont even think it's similar in kind. Even during the violence everyone, even Macron and French state media gave lip service to their grievances and went to great lengths to at least pretend to sympathize while China is hostilely mischaracterizing HK protestors and encouraging mainlanders to hate.
  - guerrilla 7y ago
    This difference does not negate the similarities that I listed which make them of the same kind. The French state doesn't get a free pass on its human rights abuses and propaganda because its figurehead negotiated with the other side.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Even during the violence everyone, even Macron and French state media gave lip service to their grievances and went to great lengths to at least pretend to sympathize The SWAT police had hit an eldery woman badly, and Macron said to the press "I hope this teaches her a lesson". I think that's enough of the sympathising and faux-grievances...
- pluma 7y ago
  Incidentally, a lot of Chinese twitter "bots" (or rather accounts that spread Chinese propaganda, whether they're manually run by actual humans or not) reply to tweets about the Hong Kong protests with sensationalist articles about the yellow vests and how France is "collapsing". That said, there are interesting takes on the yellow vests that are still critical of them without simply painting them as vandals. For example one article pointed out that the yellow vests are overwhelmingly white and their treatment is noticeably tamer than that of equally or less violent protesters in previous years who were predominantly people of color. As an outsider the yellow vests movement (especially now that it has been copied internationally) seems like it has a few legitimate concerns but they are swamped in a confusing mix of everything from anarchocommunists to ecofascists. It doesn't help that some of the international copycats are obviously far-right (because nazis seem to love co-opting populist movements for their own purposes).
_bxg1 7y ago
"Here's the question: a bunch of young people in Hong Kong are standing up to their government, at terrific personal risk, to fight for basic human rights. Will a bunch of Twitter employees, at far less risk, stand up to their CEO and refuse to be used as a weapon against them?" If anyone here works at Twitter, please, stand up for what's right.
- devoply 7y ago
  Let's call out Jack Dorsey for not being as progressive as he claims.
  - seppin 7y ago
    His loyalty is to his company. Why would you expect anything else?
    - Balgair 7y ago
      Which one? He's the CEO of Square too.
  - klyrs 7y ago
    Lol progressive. Imagine Dorsey holding Trump accountable to the same TOS everybody else is supposed to follow.
- sieabahlpark 7y ago
  This goes for Google, Facebook, and Twitter. They're all just chasing ad money.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    And especially Apple, who handed over iCloud keys [1] and an iMessage keyserver to a company in the direct control of the Chinese government, allowing unfettered surveillance of Chinese users' email, calendars, documents, and even non-Chinese users' iMessage communications [2] with Chinese users. Yahoo! was once raked over the coals for being a tiny fraction as evil. [3] [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy-betrayal-for-chinese-icloud-users/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yahoo https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yaho...
provolone 7y ago
Twitter is also promoting ads from Xinhua-Travel. They suggest that all is well in Xinjiang and Tibet. Say what you will about Twitter's political stance elsewhere. Twitter is all too happy to be complicit in spreading propaganda about an actual current genocide.
- powerapple 7y ago
  maybe Twitter is trying to suggest a slight possibility for people to go to see the place before they suggesting it as "actual current genocide".
  - provolone 7y ago
    >possibility for people to go to see Yet it is impossible to visit either region without being a part of a government controlled tour group or otherwise being accompanied by government minders. The actual locations where abuses are taking place are prohibited areas.
    - powerapple 7y ago
      It can still be better to see the place though. the place of 'actual current genocide' can be interesting to see. Not for this topic, it can still be interesting to see other part of world.
- echevil 7y ago
  They probably should forbid all Western media as well, as they has been spreading propaganda against China, without doing basic fact checking and actually got people like you to believe that there is "actual genocide" https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-media-bias-in-reporting-Hong-Kong-ongoing-unrest/answer/Gordon-Hsu-1?ch=3&share=0d82ad1b&srid=uYmGw https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-medi...
  - 07d046 7y ago
    Why do people keep posting this link in this thread? It's a terrible answer because it uncritically accepts the claim that a static rally at a venue that doesn't hold more than about 20,000 people had hundreds of thousands. Basic fact checking. Do it.
rm--rf 7y ago
It's interesting to watch the comments for this article on endgadget. As of rn, there are 17 comments from 9 accounts. 3 accounts are pro-china, one of which has 7 comments/replys in that thread, and the activity for all three is solely within the comments of this article, which also has multiple 'leader' (high usage) accounts all of which have commented in support of the protesters.
notaimbot 7y ago
I really hope ppl get to see both sides of what goes on in HK, not that I don't support the HK protesters but how the western media portrays the protests is extremely biased.
katakuchi 7y ago
Will someone please tell me what the purpose is of this article being published? Is it to criticize the Chinese government for producing Fake News? Is it to blame Twitter for it's lack of activism to stand for the free folk of Hong Kong? I'm guessing there's more than one side of this story.. Media will always be used as a tool to combat other media in order to sway public opinion. Why are we not constantly talking about Tibet anymore or police brutality and #BlackLivesMatter in the US? There seems to be a different motive, and for the average reader that consumes media, it becomes increasingly harder to form a coherent self-thought opinion by themselves and reach out of this echo chamber. It seems like every article I read about HongKong in -Europe & the US- is amped up on anti-Chinese sentiment whilst a large part of the people that demonstrate are doing so because of dissatisfaction on living conditions and purchasing power. They live in a city with wild inequality, and they could also care less about economic disruption and incurred costs by the aviation/hospitality sector. It seems to me they're just "pissed and want things to change". Fueled by the international media-attention. However blatantly simplistic that might sound.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  That is an incredibly stupid accusation and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking it. Listen to yourself - the whole fucking point is human rights to not be snatched away in the middle of the night to show trials! Purchasing power is a fucking stupid thing to accuse as their real motive as if they wanted to change that they could move onto the mainland. The point is how China has persistently tried to delegitimize it doing things like disrupting /overseas/ protests. That isn't normal and shame on all who try to normalize it.
  - katakuchi 7y ago
    I'm not quite sure if I should answer to your reply, as it seems you've wrote it in quite an angry spur of the moment. Did you perhaps take the time to read my whole post? Or was the last alinea enough to make you drop your panties and throw insults and swears around? The spokesmen of protesters are demanding the extradition law to be upheaved indefinitely and Carrie Lam to be dismissed, one of which has happened already. Four months back there was absolutely no traction for any massive protest like this, not to mention the flares of violence. Even though this law has been in the making for years and published in March of this year. Can you think of any other legitimate reason the overall population is demonstrating so fervently other than dissatisfaction about the way their current government is running their city into the ground? You speak of moving onto the mainland as a solution to purchasing power but I don't think you have any idea what it means to uproot your existence in a city which you consider your home. Especially when you're living from paycheck to paycheck and can barely afford the housing anymore. It's not as stupid to the majority of the inhabitants working in the service sector in Hong Kong and the fact that you see this as an 'accusation' to protest instead of a right to demonstrate is quite telling.
markonen 7y ago
A relatively simple way of (partially) dealing with this would be to just completely disable ads for specific hashtags. It would sidestep a lot of the issues around banning a specific (powerful) advertiser.
aembleton 7y ago
Clicking the link forwards me to https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_cc-session_645de847-53f1-4ec2-a1ab-c4e2f15a90f8 https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_... I guess that would then redirect me to the article but I block that domain at the dns level.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
1023bytes 7y ago
For extra context, the author of the quoted tweet wrote this blogpost a few days ago: https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762
wiggler00m 7y ago
I quit Facebook a while ago, but recently have been increasingly frustrated by Twitter's advertising, promoted tweets, and curation. I'm done. Goodbye Twitter.
decoyworker 7y ago
Why is there such a disconnect between the tech elite and the generally well-intentioned and helpful people of this site? What happens between fighting to make your way in the tech world and becoming a cynical fuck-the-world jerk like Dorsey, Thiel, or Zuck? Is it really that hard to benefit humanity and do the right thing?

You might as well just read the Twitter thread that the article links to https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1162711159000055808 https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1162711159000055808

SebastianKra 7y ago
Thanks. Does anyone know how to get past these consent-walls? Outline.com doesn't seem to work...
jialutu 7y ago
Scrolling through the twitter message, there is a link to this quora article, makes an enlightening read: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-media-bias-in-reporting-Hong-Kong-ongoing-unrest/answer/Gordon-Hsu-1?ch=3&share=0d82ad1b&srid=uYmGw https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-medi...
- Semaphor 7y ago
  This is downvoted. Can someone explain why? That would be much more helpful for debunking the link (if it can be debunked).
  - 07d046 7y ago
    I'm not sure where the Quora link comes from, and it's a bad answer because it parrots the claim that there were hundreds of thousands at a static rally at a venue than doesn't hold more than about 20,000.
- jammygit 7y ago
  Found two articles that corroborate the numbers to some extent. The police say 100k, organizers said 400k. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UF07P https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1UF07P https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/17/oppose-violence-save-hong-kong-476000-attend-pro-police-rally-organisers-say/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/17/oppose-violence-save-h... The original protesters are claiming 1.7M by comparison: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/18/breaking-organisers-say-1-7-million-joined-hong-kong-pro-democracy-rally-police-use-force-protesters-reiterate-5-demands/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/18/breaking-organisers-sa... I find all these numbers to be incomprehensible. My whole city is only about 1M. Where do so many people go to the bathroom? Serious question

ajxs 7y ago

In my eyes this is particularly damning in light of their upper management's milquetoast, flaccid response to recent allegations of political bias. This is the same company that would have us believe that they are responsible and morally righteous enough to wield the enormous power it has without requiring any form of regulation or government intervention. I commend Tim Pool for how aggressive yet fair and level-headed his interview with Vijaya Gadde and Jack Dorsey on the Joe Rogan show was. Vijaya Gadde left an incredibly bad impression on me from that interview. Striking me as incredibly duplicitous, disingenuous and dishonest. Jack Dorsey came off looking like a moron. We've seen this same issue with Google recently as well. Both of these companies are happy to pay lip service to moral stances against the Trump administration, presumably on the basis of moral outrage against nationalism. But then they prove with their actions that they are more than willing to assist the Chinese government in cracking down on the civil liberties of their own citizens.

guerrilla 7y ago

This reminds me (in kind, not degree) of how the Yellow Vests were treated by the French state and corporate media. They were literally labeled "breakers" (as in vandals) across the board, the word "violence" was incessantly repeated in as many contexts as possible surrounding protest days, video of blatant human rights violations would often be ignored in coverage while vandalism or looting replayed nearly non-stop, etc.

sidibe 7y ago
I dont even think it's similar in kind. Even during the violence everyone, even Macron and French state media gave lip service to their grievances and went to great lengths to at least pretend to sympathize while China is hostilely mischaracterizing HK protestors and encouraging mainlanders to hate.
- guerrilla 7y ago
  This difference does not negate the similarities that I listed which make them of the same kind. The French state doesn't get a free pass on its human rights abuses and propaganda because its figurehead negotiated with the other side.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Even during the violence everyone, even Macron and French state media gave lip service to their grievances and went to great lengths to at least pretend to sympathize The SWAT police had hit an eldery woman badly, and Macron said to the press "I hope this teaches her a lesson". I think that's enough of the sympathising and faux-grievances...
pluma 7y ago
Incidentally, a lot of Chinese twitter "bots" (or rather accounts that spread Chinese propaganda, whether they're manually run by actual humans or not) reply to tweets about the Hong Kong protests with sensationalist articles about the yellow vests and how France is "collapsing". That said, there are interesting takes on the yellow vests that are still critical of them without simply painting them as vandals. For example one article pointed out that the yellow vests are overwhelmingly white and their treatment is noticeably tamer than that of equally or less violent protesters in previous years who were predominantly people of color. As an outsider the yellow vests movement (especially now that it has been copied internationally) seems like it has a few legitimate concerns but they are swamped in a confusing mix of everything from anarchocommunists to ecofascists. It doesn't help that some of the international copycats are obviously far-right (because nazis seem to love co-opting populist movements for their own purposes).

_bxg1 7y ago

"Here's the question: a bunch of young people in Hong Kong are standing up to their government, at terrific personal risk, to fight for basic human rights. Will a bunch of Twitter employees, at far less risk, stand up to their CEO and refuse to be used as a weapon against them?" If anyone here works at Twitter, please, stand up for what's right.

devoply 7y ago
Let's call out Jack Dorsey for not being as progressive as he claims.
- seppin 7y ago
  His loyalty is to his company. Why would you expect anything else?
  - Balgair 7y ago
    Which one? He's the CEO of Square too.
- klyrs 7y ago
  Lol progressive. Imagine Dorsey holding Trump accountable to the same TOS everybody else is supposed to follow.
sieabahlpark 7y ago
This goes for Google, Facebook, and Twitter. They're all just chasing ad money.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  And especially Apple, who handed over iCloud keys [1] and an iMessage keyserver to a company in the direct control of the Chinese government, allowing unfettered surveillance of Chinese users' email, calendars, documents, and even non-Chinese users' iMessage communications [2] with Chinese users. Yahoo! was once raked over the coals for being a tiny fraction as evil. [3] [1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy-betrayal-for-chinese-icloud-users/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... [2] https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark https://www.lawfareblog.com/iphones-fbi-and-going-dark [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yahoo https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/nov/14/news.yaho...

provolone 7y ago

Twitter is also promoting ads from Xinhua-Travel. They suggest that all is well in Xinjiang and Tibet. Say what you will about Twitter's political stance elsewhere. Twitter is all too happy to be complicit in spreading propaganda about an actual current genocide.

powerapple 7y ago
maybe Twitter is trying to suggest a slight possibility for people to go to see the place before they suggesting it as "actual current genocide".
- provolone 7y ago
  >possibility for people to go to see Yet it is impossible to visit either region without being a part of a government controlled tour group or otherwise being accompanied by government minders. The actual locations where abuses are taking place are prohibited areas.
  - powerapple 7y ago
    It can still be better to see the place though. the place of 'actual current genocide' can be interesting to see. Not for this topic, it can still be interesting to see other part of world.
echevil 7y ago
They probably should forbid all Western media as well, as they has been spreading propaganda against China, without doing basic fact checking and actually got people like you to believe that there is "actual genocide" https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-media-bias-in-reporting-Hong-Kong-ongoing-unrest/answer/Gordon-Hsu-1?ch=3&share=0d82ad1b&srid=uYmGw https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-specific-examples-of-medi...
- 07d046 7y ago
  Why do people keep posting this link in this thread? It's a terrible answer because it uncritically accepts the claim that a static rally at a venue that doesn't hold more than about 20,000 people had hundreds of thousands. Basic fact checking. Do it.

rm--rf 7y ago

It's interesting to watch the comments for this article on endgadget. As of rn, there are 17 comments from 9 accounts. 3 accounts are pro-china, one of which has 7 comments/replys in that thread, and the activity for all three is solely within the comments of this article, which also has multiple 'leader' (high usage) accounts all of which have commented in support of the protesters.

notaimbot 7y ago

I really hope ppl get to see both sides of what goes on in HK, not that I don't support the HK protesters but how the western media portrays the protests is extremely biased.

katakuchi 7y ago

Will someone please tell me what the purpose is of this article being published? Is it to criticize the Chinese government for producing Fake News? Is it to blame Twitter for it's lack of activism to stand for the free folk of Hong Kong? I'm guessing there's more than one side of this story.. Media will always be used as a tool to combat other media in order to sway public opinion. Why are we not constantly talking about Tibet anymore or police brutality and #BlackLivesMatter in the US? There seems to be a different motive, and for the average reader that consumes media, it becomes increasingly harder to form a coherent self-thought opinion by themselves and reach out of this echo chamber. It seems like every article I read about HongKong in -Europe & the US- is amped up on anti-Chinese sentiment whilst a large part of the people that demonstrate are doing so because of dissatisfaction on living conditions and purchasing power. They live in a city with wild inequality, and they could also care less about economic disruption and incurred costs by the aviation/hospitality sector. It seems to me they're just "pissed and want things to change". Fueled by the international media-attention. However blatantly simplistic that might sound.

Nasrudith 7y ago
That is an incredibly stupid accusation and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking it. Listen to yourself - the whole fucking point is human rights to not be snatched away in the middle of the night to show trials! Purchasing power is a fucking stupid thing to accuse as their real motive as if they wanted to change that they could move onto the mainland. The point is how China has persistently tried to delegitimize it doing things like disrupting /overseas/ protests. That isn't normal and shame on all who try to normalize it.
- katakuchi 7y ago
  I'm not quite sure if I should answer to your reply, as it seems you've wrote it in quite an angry spur of the moment. Did you perhaps take the time to read my whole post? Or was the last alinea enough to make you drop your panties and throw insults and swears around? The spokesmen of protesters are demanding the extradition law to be upheaved indefinitely and Carrie Lam to be dismissed, one of which has happened already. Four months back there was absolutely no traction for any massive protest like this, not to mention the flares of violence. Even though this law has been in the making for years and published in March of this year. Can you think of any other legitimate reason the overall population is demonstrating so fervently other than dissatisfaction about the way their current government is running their city into the ground? You speak of moving onto the mainland as a solution to purchasing power but I don't think you have any idea what it means to uproot your existence in a city which you consider your home. Especially when you're living from paycheck to paycheck and can barely afford the housing anymore. It's not as stupid to the majority of the inhabitants working in the service sector in Hong Kong and the fact that you see this as an 'accusation' to protest instead of a right to demonstrate is quite telling.

markonen 7y ago

A relatively simple way of (partially) dealing with this would be to just completely disable ads for specific hashtags. It would sidestep a lot of the issues around banning a specific (powerful) advertiser.

aembleton 7y ago

Clicking the link forwards me to https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_cc-session_645de847-53f1-4ec2-a1ab-c4e2f15a90f8 https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_... I guess that would then redirect me to the article but I block that domain at the dns level.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

1023bytes 7y ago

For extra context, the author of the quoted tweet wrote this blogpost a few days ago: https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_walk_in_hong_kong.htm Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762

wiggler00m 7y ago

I quit Facebook a while ago, but recently have been increasingly frustrated by Twitter's advertising, promoted tweets, and curation. I'm done. Goodbye Twitter.

decoyworker 7y ago

Why is there such a disconnect between the tech elite and the generally well-intentioned and helpful people of this site? What happens between fighting to make your way in the tech world and becoming a cynical fuck-the-world jerk like Dorsey, Thiel, or Zuck? Is it really that hard to benefit humanity and do the right thing?