4 ms·

Seems like you'd be much better off floating them on a lake. There was a project a few years ago to do this both for power and to reduce evaporative loss in res

Seems like you'd be much better off floating them on a lake. There was a project a few years ago to do this both for power and to reduce evaporative loss in reservoirs, but I don't know if anything has come of it.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Wouldn't you kill the lake, unless you only covered a small proportion of it.
- pacala 7y ago
  Depends on the lake. There is a reservoir near LA covered in millions of black balls. Apparently this is a side effect of water quality regulation, direct sunlight triggers a chemical reaction that produces harmful byproducts. As a bonus, evaporation is also reduced, which matters in semi-arid climates like Southern California. https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2019/5/23/why-are-96000000-black-balls-on-this-reservoir https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2019/5/23/why-are-96000000...
  - Endy 7y ago
    If direct sunlight triggers a harmful reaction in your water, you need to reconsider what's in your water.
    - dumbfoundded 7y ago
      Not really. Bromide and chlorine are okay for humans to consume. Sunlight turns these into to bromate which is a carcinogen. https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-s-really-going-on-with-those-black-balls-in-the-la-reservoir https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-s-really-going-on-w...
      - Endy 7y ago
        Okay, but do bromide and chlorine naturally occur in the water in that area? Or was it because of human meddling?
        gen3 7y ago
        It's used in the water cleaning process to make it drinkable.
        Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        I'm not clear why it matters. Everything natural isn't necessarily good.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        dredmorbius 7y ago
        They are part of the water treatment process for municipal drinking water supplies. Though I'm not familiar with the specifics and details of this case (and have seen the Veritasium video describing the use), it's reasonable to assume that these treatments would be applied regardless, and the shade balls are an effective countermeasure.
        CydeWeys 7y ago
        Cholera, dysentery, and many other waterborne diseases exist naturally in untreated water that hasn't been "meddled with" by humans. The death tolls of historical urban outbreaks shows that you would MUCH rather drink the treated water.
        MertsA 7y ago
        Salts are everywhere, there's nothing wrong with trace amounts in water.
        dumbfoundded 7y ago
        Maybe you should just read the article I linked. If you have more questions, then you can google those and figure it out. If through your process of learning, you come up with an understanding of any situation, then you should form an opinion. I don't mean to be rude but your question is easily answerable by reading the article I linked (and it's a short one). If you're not going to take the 30 seconds to respect my comment, I will show none to your uninformed opinion.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    I saw that story surface again recently, it's a perennial pleaser. Those balls are used to cover lakes of processed water which is eventually used as drinking water; that's not a living lake. This NatGeo article from 2015, https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/08/150812-shade-balls-los-angeles-California-drought-water-environment/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/08/150812-shade... , notes for example that they kill algae and microorganisms, and inhibit water-fowl. I'm almost certain they'd kill lake-born fish too, preventing growth of water-borne oxygenators (which also serve as a food source, and place for eg snails to live). Whilst the purpose appears to be to prevent plant and animal life, at least in part, it's possible a stable eco-system might still survive; but it seems highly unlikely to me -- do you have something to show me I'm wrong in my assumption?
    - pacala 7y ago
      While I'm not an expert, I suspect you're right. Point being that some lakes serve a different purpose than supporting a thriving ecosystem.
- debatem1 7y ago
  Lots of reservoirs or mining pits basically aren't suitable for life, and there are even more bodies of water that have areas that aren't. Sometimes that's because of pH or salt concentrations, but more often it's because they dry out seasonally, they're very low oxygen, etc. Many of those areas are large enough to get substantial power out of, and in the case of the seasonally dry reservoirs you might even be building a better ecosystem by reducing evaporative loss.
otabdeveloper2 7y ago
> Seems like you'd be much better off floating them on a lake. Right. Fuck the fishes, let them die, amirite? Landgrubbers unite, legs rule, fins drool!
- taxidump 7y ago
  I am unable to downvote but I would if I could. Many reservoirs are for municipal water supplies and not for marine life. It is common to cover them to reduce evaporation. To jump to the conclusion that floating solar arrays would "fuck the fishes" is obviously not well thought out.
  - TillE 7y ago
    A reservoir is not a "lake", by definition.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      A reservoir is not a "lake", by definition. Tell that to the Colorado River and its reservoirs Lake Mead, Lake Havasu, Lake Granby, and Lake Powell.
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      Wikipedia[1], and probably most dictionaries, disagrees: > A reservoir (from French réservoir – a "tank") is, most commonly, an enlarged natural or artificial lake, pond or impoundment created using a dam or lock to store water. I've been to plenty of reservoirs with "lake" in the name, and I didn't realize the closest lake to my childhood home was a reservoir until I was a teenager, and the name didn't have reservoir in the name. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    In the United States, very few reservoirs are exclusively for water supplies. Most large-scale reservoirs I've been to (probably 50 or 60 from Lake Mead[1] to Woodcliff Lake[2]) are also used for recreational boating, fishing, and wildlife habitat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mead [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcliff_Lake_Reservoir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcliff_Lake_Reservoir
Someone 7y ago
Such solar farms are built fairly regularly. Examples: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35705345 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35705345, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-launches-largest-floating-solar-farm-180963587/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-launches-lar.... Putting solar cells on top of (artificial) lakes not only decreases evaporation, but also cools the solar cells, making them more efficient.
avip 7y ago
Floating solar is doing well, with global capacity over 1GW (global installed PV capacity surpassed 500GW). It's technically easier to put things on land if possible.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

Wouldn't you kill the lake, unless you only covered a small proportion of it.

pacala 7y ago
Depends on the lake. There is a reservoir near LA covered in millions of black balls. Apparently this is a side effect of water quality regulation, direct sunlight triggers a chemical reaction that produces harmful byproducts. As a bonus, evaporation is also reduced, which matters in semi-arid climates like Southern California. https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2019/5/23/why-are-96000000-black-balls-on-this-reservoir https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2019/5/23/why-are-96000000...
- Endy 7y ago
  If direct sunlight triggers a harmful reaction in your water, you need to reconsider what's in your water.
  - dumbfoundded 7y ago
    Not really. Bromide and chlorine are okay for humans to consume. Sunlight turns these into to bromate which is a carcinogen. https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-s-really-going-on-with-those-black-balls-in-the-la-reservoir https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-s-really-going-on-w...
    - Endy 7y ago
      Okay, but do bromide and chlorine naturally occur in the water in that area? Or was it because of human meddling?
      - gen3 7y ago
        It's used in the water cleaning process to make it drinkable.
      - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        I'm not clear why it matters. Everything natural isn't necessarily good.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - dredmorbius 7y ago
        They are part of the water treatment process for municipal drinking water supplies. Though I'm not familiar with the specifics and details of this case (and have seen the Veritasium video describing the use), it's reasonable to assume that these treatments would be applied regardless, and the shade balls are an effective countermeasure.
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        Cholera, dysentery, and many other waterborne diseases exist naturally in untreated water that hasn't been "meddled with" by humans. The death tolls of historical urban outbreaks shows that you would MUCH rather drink the treated water.
      - MertsA 7y ago
        Salts are everywhere, there's nothing wrong with trace amounts in water.
      - dumbfoundded 7y ago
        Maybe you should just read the article I linked. If you have more questions, then you can google those and figure it out. If through your process of learning, you come up with an understanding of any situation, then you should form an opinion. I don't mean to be rude but your question is easily answerable by reading the article I linked (and it's a short one). If you're not going to take the 30 seconds to respect my comment, I will show none to your uninformed opinion.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  I saw that story surface again recently, it's a perennial pleaser. Those balls are used to cover lakes of processed water which is eventually used as drinking water; that's not a living lake. This NatGeo article from 2015, https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/08/150812-shade-balls-los-angeles-California-drought-water-environment/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/08/150812-shade... , notes for example that they kill algae and microorganisms, and inhibit water-fowl. I'm almost certain they'd kill lake-born fish too, preventing growth of water-borne oxygenators (which also serve as a food source, and place for eg snails to live). Whilst the purpose appears to be to prevent plant and animal life, at least in part, it's possible a stable eco-system might still survive; but it seems highly unlikely to me -- do you have something to show me I'm wrong in my assumption?
  - pacala 7y ago
    While I'm not an expert, I suspect you're right. Point being that some lakes serve a different purpose than supporting a thriving ecosystem.
debatem1 7y ago
Lots of reservoirs or mining pits basically aren't suitable for life, and there are even more bodies of water that have areas that aren't. Sometimes that's because of pH or salt concentrations, but more often it's because they dry out seasonally, they're very low oxygen, etc. Many of those areas are large enough to get substantial power out of, and in the case of the seasonally dry reservoirs you might even be building a better ecosystem by reducing evaporative loss.

otabdeveloper2 7y ago

> Seems like you'd be much better off floating them on a lake. Right. Fuck the fishes, let them die, amirite? Landgrubbers unite, legs rule, fins drool!

taxidump 7y ago
I am unable to downvote but I would if I could. Many reservoirs are for municipal water supplies and not for marine life. It is common to cover them to reduce evaporation. To jump to the conclusion that floating solar arrays would "fuck the fishes" is obviously not well thought out.
- TillE 7y ago
  A reservoir is not a "lake", by definition.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    A reservoir is not a "lake", by definition. Tell that to the Colorado River and its reservoirs Lake Mead, Lake Havasu, Lake Granby, and Lake Powell.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    Wikipedia[1], and probably most dictionaries, disagrees: > A reservoir (from French réservoir – a "tank") is, most commonly, an enlarged natural or artificial lake, pond or impoundment created using a dam or lock to store water. I've been to plenty of reservoirs with "lake" in the name, and I didn't realize the closest lake to my childhood home was a reservoir until I was a teenager, and the name didn't have reservoir in the name. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir
- reaperducer 7y ago
  In the United States, very few reservoirs are exclusively for water supplies. Most large-scale reservoirs I've been to (probably 50 or 60 from Lake Mead[1] to Woodcliff Lake[2]) are also used for recreational boating, fishing, and wildlife habitat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mead [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcliff_Lake_Reservoir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcliff_Lake_Reservoir

Someone 7y ago

Such solar farms are built fairly regularly. Examples: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35705345 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35705345, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-launches-largest-floating-solar-farm-180963587/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/china-launches-lar.... Putting solar cells on top of (artificial) lakes not only decreases evaporation, but also cools the solar cells, making them more efficient.

avip 7y ago

Floating solar is doing well, with global capacity over 1GW (global installed PV capacity surpassed 500GW). It's technically easier to put things on land if possible.