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I'm also from a poor background and agree with a lot of this. It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. No one

I'm also from a poor background and agree with a lot of this. It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. No one will be happy in the end. They should have stayed focused on being excited about making the best technology they can, background and politics aside. Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch.

echelon 7y ago
> It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. I wasn't aware this was a thing. Did Google openly support one candidate or party? How did they promote politics in the workplace? > Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch. How? What do new companies change or do differently? Are the FANGY companies doomed by a toxic culture they can't undo? And why can't they? I'm curious.
- keiferski 7y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-video-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-...
  - kajecounterhack 7y ago
    Just read the article. FWIW when conservatives are "afraid to share their views" it's different than when progressives do, because a lot of conservative views will run counter to a code of conduct. Corporations need to be inclusive environments where all competent people have the space to do their work. Rejecting intolerance in the workplace is the only rational thing to do. If you let people be racist, sexist, or otherwise make another person feel threatened, that's not OK. If you feel threatened because you're a racist or sexist, well the onus is on you to grow up and recognize what's really broken here.
    - thosakwe 7y ago
      What I dislike about conversations like this on HN, is that comments like the above don’t get downvoted because they are detrimental to the conversation, or because they are in some way a rules violation, but rather because people just don’t like them. It defeats the whole “moderation” purpose of self-moderation. And it happens every single time a political issue like racial bias in the tech industry is the topic at hand.
      - sloppycee 7y ago
        Maybe equating 'conservative views' to racism and sexism _is_ detrimental to this conversation? We're talking on an article where an employee interpreted _silence_ as racism! There is a valid point that (non-bigoted) conservative opinions are being silenced. i.e. Say you think that we should reduce the immigration rate, and wanted to discuss your reasons with your coworkers -- would you feel comfortable discussing that @ a SF tech company?
        fzeroracer 7y ago
        The problem is that your opinion doesn't exist in the a vacuum. If you talk about reducing immigration while saying little to nothing about the horrible treatment of people at our borders, then naturally people are going to take offense because you're ranking the value of reduced immigration over the value of treating people humanely. I've had many discussions with coworkers with me taking up both stances as a steel man and/or devil's advocate and not once have I felt uncomfortable about the discussion. You should be concerned about certain actions of very powerful people in high offices poisoning the well of discourse before you consider what you're trying to debate because context is everything. I find that is something frequently ignored when people discuss why they feel like they can't speak about certain things.
        sloppycee 7y ago
        That's great advice - but it amounts to 'be careful and qualify your opinion to show you're _not_ racist'. That's exactly what people are complaining about. The migrant detention issue has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of _legal_ immigration. Bringing it up does nothing other than to distract and prevent discussion on the original topic! If we could just discuss issues _in good faith_ and stop with the name calling we might actually be able to solve some of them -- together.
- jayventura 7y ago
  Food for thought, something can be political without directly referencing domestic politics and political parties. Definition: "the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power." Discussing structural inequality is inherently political because it is a discussion about power. However, I disagree with parent. You cannot have a diverse workforce that numbers the thousands and expect there not to be a discussion about power structures and inequity. Imagine if you applied that lens of thinking to a company that employs both blacks and whites in the Jim Crow era-- who loses?
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  >Did Google openly support one candidate or party? Serious? I mean, you can be right or left as much as you like, but to ignore that Google has been entirely sided with the DNC is to just ignore reality. This isn't even getting into the recent leaks of Google search blacklists that overwhelmingly target conservative outlets [0]. Or their internal documents that talk literally and explicitly about "preventing the next Trump situation". [1] I'm no Trump fan... But it's tough to stick your head in the sand here. Here is Google's Eric Schmidt wearing a STAFF badge at Hillary Clinton's election night headquarters. [2] [0] https://www.projectveritas.com/2019/06/11/tech-insider-blows-whistle-on-how-pinterest-listed-top-pro-life-site-as-porn-bible-verses-censored/ https://www.projectveritas.com/2019/06/11/tech-insider-blows... [1] https://humanevents.com/2019/06/24/google-admits-it-wants-to-prevent-the-next-trump-situation/ https://humanevents.com/2019/06/24/google-admits-it-wants-to... [2] https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.jvJbsV3FTMMC7PwzPY_XIgHaG-&pid=Api&rs=1 https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.jvJbsV3FTMMC7PwzPY_XIgHaG-&pi... edit: More and more like reddit everyday. Don't like the content, don't try and dispute it. Try and hide it.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Project Veritas is credible now?
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      It's a video with a senior Google engineer explaining the documents he turned over to DOJ, how he retrieved them, and those documents clearly viewable. It's pretty hard to say they selectively edited anything here.
      - selimthegrim 7y ago
        Your link is to an article about Pinterest not wanting people to pin a site which presumably has pictures of dead and aborted fetuses
        SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
- jiscariot 7y ago
  Some of the politicization at Google may have been born out of the "Bring your whole self to work" philosophy playing out on their internal Google+ network and "Coffee Beans" discussion forum. You can see many examples/screenshots of what was tolerated internally in the Damore lawsuit[1]. I've worked exclusively for large orgs (outside of the Bay Area) and it completely blows my mind. [1] https://www.dhillonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/20180418-Damore-et-al.-v.-Google-FAC_Endorsed.pdf https://www.dhillonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/201804...
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    Wow, just from briefly scrolling around I'm appalled by the sort of stuff that people are willing to put in writing and send to their coworkers at Google. e.g. managers admitting to having shit-lists of people that they won't let on their teams
  - aianus 7y ago
    Damore's memo isn't 1/10th as disturbing as these comments from his coworkers. "I will keep hounding you until one of us is fired. Fuck you." - Alex Hidalgo, SRE at Google And he's still employed. Yeesh.
- username90 7y ago
  > How did they promote politics in the workplace? "Bring your whole self to work". Example of people bringing their whole selves to work: When Trump won the election we had executives crying on stage talking about the catastrophe. Not something you would see at a conventional company, I best most executives didn't even mention the election in front of their employees. Note that I didn't say that Google promotes a specific political party, just that it promotes people bringing politics to work.
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    Would Google also support Trump supporters celebrating the victory as openly as other people took the stage to cry about the catastrophe?
- 50656E6973 7y ago
  >Did Google openly support one candidate or party? Yes https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-emails-google-eric-schmidt-relationship-with-clintons-2016-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-emails-google-eric...
- kgwgk 7y ago
  > Did Google openly support one candidate or party? Maybe not openly, and they will (unconvincingly) try to deny it: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/google-resources-target-latino-voters-2016/story?id=59748087 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/google-resources-target-lati...
fzeroracer 7y ago
You cannot avoid a politicized workplace because companies don't exist in a vacuum and neither do the workers. You can do your best to ensure things remain respectful but you can't avoid certain topics unless you outright refuse to hire people of color or minorities, in which case you achieve a political monoculture which is in itself a politicized workplace. There is no such thing as an apolitical workplace or company.

echelon 7y ago

> It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. I wasn't aware this was a thing. Did Google openly support one candidate or party? How did they promote politics in the workplace? > Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch. How? What do new companies change or do differently? Are the FANGY companies doomed by a toxic culture they can't undo? And why can't they? I'm curious.

keiferski 7y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-video-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-...
- kajecounterhack 7y ago
  Just read the article. FWIW when conservatives are "afraid to share their views" it's different than when progressives do, because a lot of conservative views will run counter to a code of conduct. Corporations need to be inclusive environments where all competent people have the space to do their work. Rejecting intolerance in the workplace is the only rational thing to do. If you let people be racist, sexist, or otherwise make another person feel threatened, that's not OK. If you feel threatened because you're a racist or sexist, well the onus is on you to grow up and recognize what's really broken here.
  - thosakwe 7y ago
    What I dislike about conversations like this on HN, is that comments like the above don’t get downvoted because they are detrimental to the conversation, or because they are in some way a rules violation, but rather because people just don’t like them. It defeats the whole “moderation” purpose of self-moderation. And it happens every single time a political issue like racial bias in the tech industry is the topic at hand.
    - sloppycee 7y ago
      Maybe equating 'conservative views' to racism and sexism _is_ detrimental to this conversation? We're talking on an article where an employee interpreted _silence_ as racism! There is a valid point that (non-bigoted) conservative opinions are being silenced. i.e. Say you think that we should reduce the immigration rate, and wanted to discuss your reasons with your coworkers -- would you feel comfortable discussing that @ a SF tech company?
      - fzeroracer 7y ago
        The problem is that your opinion doesn't exist in the a vacuum. If you talk about reducing immigration while saying little to nothing about the horrible treatment of people at our borders, then naturally people are going to take offense because you're ranking the value of reduced immigration over the value of treating people humanely. I've had many discussions with coworkers with me taking up both stances as a steel man and/or devil's advocate and not once have I felt uncomfortable about the discussion. You should be concerned about certain actions of very powerful people in high offices poisoning the well of discourse before you consider what you're trying to debate because context is everything. I find that is something frequently ignored when people discuss why they feel like they can't speak about certain things.
        sloppycee 7y ago
        That's great advice - but it amounts to 'be careful and qualify your opinion to show you're _not_ racist'. That's exactly what people are complaining about. The migrant detention issue has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of _legal_ immigration. Bringing it up does nothing other than to distract and prevent discussion on the original topic! If we could just discuss issues _in good faith_ and stop with the name calling we might actually be able to solve some of them -- together.
jayventura 7y ago
Food for thought, something can be political without directly referencing domestic politics and political parties. Definition: "the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power." Discussing structural inequality is inherently political because it is a discussion about power. However, I disagree with parent. You cannot have a diverse workforce that numbers the thousands and expect there not to be a discussion about power structures and inequity. Imagine if you applied that lens of thinking to a company that employs both blacks and whites in the Jim Crow era-- who loses?
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
>Did Google openly support one candidate or party? Serious? I mean, you can be right or left as much as you like, but to ignore that Google has been entirely sided with the DNC is to just ignore reality. This isn't even getting into the recent leaks of Google search blacklists that overwhelmingly target conservative outlets [0]. Or their internal documents that talk literally and explicitly about "preventing the next Trump situation". [1] I'm no Trump fan... But it's tough to stick your head in the sand here. Here is Google's Eric Schmidt wearing a STAFF badge at Hillary Clinton's election night headquarters. [2] [0] https://www.projectveritas.com/2019/06/11/tech-insider-blows-whistle-on-how-pinterest-listed-top-pro-life-site-as-porn-bible-verses-censored/ https://www.projectveritas.com/2019/06/11/tech-insider-blows... [1] https://humanevents.com/2019/06/24/google-admits-it-wants-to-prevent-the-next-trump-situation/ https://humanevents.com/2019/06/24/google-admits-it-wants-to... [2] https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.jvJbsV3FTMMC7PwzPY_XIgHaG-&pid=Api&rs=1 https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.jvJbsV3FTMMC7PwzPY_XIgHaG-&pi... edit: More and more like reddit everyday. Don't like the content, don't try and dispute it. Try and hide it.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Project Veritas is credible now?
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    It's a video with a senior Google engineer explaining the documents he turned over to DOJ, how he retrieved them, and those documents clearly viewable. It's pretty hard to say they selectively edited anything here.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      Your link is to an article about Pinterest not wanting people to pin a site which presumably has pictures of dead and aborted fetuses
      - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
jiscariot 7y ago
Some of the politicization at Google may have been born out of the "Bring your whole self to work" philosophy playing out on their internal Google+ network and "Coffee Beans" discussion forum. You can see many examples/screenshots of what was tolerated internally in the Damore lawsuit[1]. I've worked exclusively for large orgs (outside of the Bay Area) and it completely blows my mind. [1] https://www.dhillonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/20180418-Damore-et-al.-v.-Google-FAC_Endorsed.pdf https://www.dhillonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/201804...
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  Wow, just from briefly scrolling around I'm appalled by the sort of stuff that people are willing to put in writing and send to their coworkers at Google. e.g. managers admitting to having shit-lists of people that they won't let on their teams
- aianus 7y ago
  Damore's memo isn't 1/10th as disturbing as these comments from his coworkers. "I will keep hounding you until one of us is fired. Fuck you." - Alex Hidalgo, SRE at Google And he's still employed. Yeesh.
username90 7y ago
> How did they promote politics in the workplace? "Bring your whole self to work". Example of people bringing their whole selves to work: When Trump won the election we had executives crying on stage talking about the catastrophe. Not something you would see at a conventional company, I best most executives didn't even mention the election in front of their employees. Note that I didn't say that Google promotes a specific political party, just that it promotes people bringing politics to work.
- kgwgk 7y ago
  Would Google also support Trump supporters celebrating the victory as openly as other people took the stage to cry about the catastrophe?
50656E6973 7y ago
>Did Google openly support one candidate or party? Yes https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-emails-google-eric-schmidt-relationship-with-clintons-2016-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-emails-google-eric...
kgwgk 7y ago
> Did Google openly support one candidate or party? Maybe not openly, and they will (unconvincingly) try to deny it: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/google-resources-target-latino-voters-2016/story?id=59748087 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/google-resources-target-lati...

fzeroracer 7y ago

You cannot avoid a politicized workplace because companies don't exist in a vacuum and neither do the workers. You can do your best to ensure things remain respectful but you can't avoid certain topics unless you outright refuse to hire people of color or minorities, in which case you achieve a political monoculture which is in itself a politicized workplace. There is no such thing as an apolitical workplace or company.