5 ms·

I think the biggest problem with smart TVs is that manufacturers abandon models after only a few years. You might only get updates for < 3 years and after that,

I think the biggest problem with smart TVs is that manufacturers abandon models after only a few years. You might only get updates for < 3 years and after that, well tough - your TV reached the end of its supported period. No more new functionality and crucially no more security updates. Most people will still use the TV and keep it connected to their network without realising the security risks. And the above is for mainstream TV brands, imagine how bad it is for weird off-brands and store own-brands where the original software is of unknown provenance and the chances of any updates is nill.

kalleboo 7y ago
EU countries have consumer protection laws that cover manufacturing defects for a reasonable period of use. Those laws need to be clarified to also cover security updates. If a TV that breaks due to bad capacitors after 3 years is covered for a refund, so should a TV that has known security holes that don't get patched. "Users don't care" you say - well the tabloids would have a field day with "GET A FREE NEW TV WITH THIS ONE SECRET TRICK" headlines getting people to return them.
rhinoceraptor 7y ago
I just hope they never start embedding mobile radios in TVs to circumvent people who know better than to connect their TV to their network. I would imagine they can exfiltrate their tracking info with very little network traffic over LTE.
- DoubleGlazing 7y ago
  Back in the late 90s when digital TV was being rolled out, RTÉ in Ireland developed a technology called WiNDS. You won't find much technical information about it online because it never moved beyond the prototype phase. WiNDS provided a return path for ordering PPV events and other interactivity by embedding a GSM data modem in your set top box. It would transmit back to base using your regular TV antenna.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Satellite boxes would have plugin modems for this. Sometimes they’d give you a bit of credit, but others wouldn’t activate the program unless you phoned home.
- Silhouette 7y ago
  I just hope they never start embedding mobile radios in TVs to circumvent people who know better than to connect their TV to their network. This is my concern with almost any "smart home", IoT type devices now. As we've already seen with cars, it's entirely possible for a whole industry to shift towards anti-consumer measures like mandatory remote access, and for neither market competition nor laws and regulations to rein them in. In other news, car theft was essentially a solved problem, where it had become so difficult to drive away that the most effective strategy was literally to break into someone's home/office and steal the real keys. Today, car theft is on the rise, and numerous researchers have demonstrated compromising the security of numerous models from entry-level to expensive prestige vehicles in a matter of seconds. Not all remote control is good. Not all data sharing is good. Being permanently online is not always good. At some point, we as a society need to realise that and start regulating the products and services we use accordingly... Ideally before some mass hack breaches the privacy of millions of families with smart devices putting cameras and microphones in their homes, or causes every car of a certain model to suddenly accelerate to full speed in the middle of town or slam on the brakes on a high speed road, or otherwise causes some other kind of widespread damage that can't just be ignored or recovered afterwards.
- TheSoftwareGuy 7y ago
  This is honestly one of my biggest fears with 5G: that this will become economical
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Why would we need 5G to do this? Is there something cheaper about it? I thought it was just faster, and generally only usable at closer rangers because of higher frequencies. And those higher frequencies make it less capable of penetrating into buildings.
    - TheSoftwareGuy 7y ago
      My understanding was that 5G enables you to have a ton of low-bandwidth subscribers in a cell, in a way that LTE isn't able to. Maybe i'm wrong, I'm no 5G expert
MisterTea 7y ago
What's really sad about smart TV's is they are essentially an all-in-one computer with no access to the computer part. For example inside an insignia smart TV I opened were three boards: power supply, LCD interface board, SoC/input board. The SoC board is pretty much a full motherboard as it had RAM, Flash, along with the Video and audio ports plus WiFi, Ethernet and USB. It then struck me: "Has someone hacked a different OS onto one of these bad boys?" I couldn't find anything but some forum posts saying it's impossible as unfortunately the TV SoC's are all highly proprietary. Now just imagine if we could get access to those SoC's. Run linux, custom menus, remote mapping, control via ethernet/wifi, better settings management, run kodi on the tv, etc. It's massively frustrating.
- MasterScrat 7y ago
  Meh, just hook a raspberry pi to your TV and that's it.
  - MisterTea 7y ago
    Of course this is the easiest way but honestly why create more waste? If there is a perfectly functional CPU/RAM/Storage in the TV then why not let us use it?
- jaclaz 7y ago
  There are alternatives for Samsung and LG, examples: https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/ http://openlgtv.org.ru/wiki/index.php/LGMOD http://openlgtv.org.ru/wiki/index.php/LGMOD Of course it depends from models and what not, so YMMV, but essentially they run a Linux of sorts without providing the source code of "key" parts and "locking it down" as much as they can, if someone manages to workaround these "locks" ... Here is a thread about installing "full" Ubuntu/Debian on a Samsung, but it is from a few years ago, so likely this is only possible to "old" TV's: https://forum.samygo.tv/viewtopic.php?t=7898 https://forum.samygo.tv/viewtopic.php?t=7898
inetknght 7y ago
> Most people will still use the TV and keep it connected to their network without realising the security risks. Conversely, most people won't even know the TV isn't being supported.

kalleboo 7y ago

EU countries have consumer protection laws that cover manufacturing defects for a reasonable period of use. Those laws need to be clarified to also cover security updates. If a TV that breaks due to bad capacitors after 3 years is covered for a refund, so should a TV that has known security holes that don't get patched. "Users don't care" you say - well the tabloids would have a field day with "GET A FREE NEW TV WITH THIS ONE SECRET TRICK" headlines getting people to return them.

rhinoceraptor 7y ago

I just hope they never start embedding mobile radios in TVs to circumvent people who know better than to connect their TV to their network. I would imagine they can exfiltrate their tracking info with very little network traffic over LTE.

DoubleGlazing 7y ago
Back in the late 90s when digital TV was being rolled out, RTÉ in Ireland developed a technology called WiNDS. You won't find much technical information about it online because it never moved beyond the prototype phase. WiNDS provided a return path for ordering PPV events and other interactivity by embedding a GSM data modem in your set top box. It would transmit back to base using your regular TV antenna.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Satellite boxes would have plugin modems for this. Sometimes they’d give you a bit of credit, but others wouldn’t activate the program unless you phoned home.
Silhouette 7y ago
I just hope they never start embedding mobile radios in TVs to circumvent people who know better than to connect their TV to their network. This is my concern with almost any "smart home", IoT type devices now. As we've already seen with cars, it's entirely possible for a whole industry to shift towards anti-consumer measures like mandatory remote access, and for neither market competition nor laws and regulations to rein them in. In other news, car theft was essentially a solved problem, where it had become so difficult to drive away that the most effective strategy was literally to break into someone's home/office and steal the real keys. Today, car theft is on the rise, and numerous researchers have demonstrated compromising the security of numerous models from entry-level to expensive prestige vehicles in a matter of seconds. Not all remote control is good. Not all data sharing is good. Being permanently online is not always good. At some point, we as a society need to realise that and start regulating the products and services we use accordingly... Ideally before some mass hack breaches the privacy of millions of families with smart devices putting cameras and microphones in their homes, or causes every car of a certain model to suddenly accelerate to full speed in the middle of town or slam on the brakes on a high speed road, or otherwise causes some other kind of widespread damage that can't just be ignored or recovered afterwards.
TheSoftwareGuy 7y ago
This is honestly one of my biggest fears with 5G: that this will become economical
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Why would we need 5G to do this? Is there something cheaper about it? I thought it was just faster, and generally only usable at closer rangers because of higher frequencies. And those higher frequencies make it less capable of penetrating into buildings.
  - TheSoftwareGuy 7y ago
    My understanding was that 5G enables you to have a ton of low-bandwidth subscribers in a cell, in a way that LTE isn't able to. Maybe i'm wrong, I'm no 5G expert

MisterTea 7y ago

What's really sad about smart TV's is they are essentially an all-in-one computer with no access to the computer part. For example inside an insignia smart TV I opened were three boards: power supply, LCD interface board, SoC/input board. The SoC board is pretty much a full motherboard as it had RAM, Flash, along with the Video and audio ports plus WiFi, Ethernet and USB. It then struck me: "Has someone hacked a different OS onto one of these bad boys?" I couldn't find anything but some forum posts saying it's impossible as unfortunately the TV SoC's are all highly proprietary. Now just imagine if we could get access to those SoC's. Run linux, custom menus, remote mapping, control via ethernet/wifi, better settings management, run kodi on the tv, etc. It's massively frustrating.

MasterScrat 7y ago
Meh, just hook a raspberry pi to your TV and that's it.
- MisterTea 7y ago
  Of course this is the easiest way but honestly why create more waste? If there is a perfectly functional CPU/RAM/Storage in the TV then why not let us use it?
jaclaz 7y ago
There are alternatives for Samsung and LG, examples: https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/ http://openlgtv.org.ru/wiki/index.php/LGMOD http://openlgtv.org.ru/wiki/index.php/LGMOD Of course it depends from models and what not, so YMMV, but essentially they run a Linux of sorts without providing the source code of "key" parts and "locking it down" as much as they can, if someone manages to workaround these "locks" ... Here is a thread about installing "full" Ubuntu/Debian on a Samsung, but it is from a few years ago, so likely this is only possible to "old" TV's: https://forum.samygo.tv/viewtopic.php?t=7898 https://forum.samygo.tv/viewtopic.php?t=7898

inetknght 7y ago

> Most people will still use the TV and keep it connected to their network without realising the security risks. Conversely, most people won't even know the TV isn't being supported.