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It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. It may also keep the media reporting more h

It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. It may also keep the media reporting more honest as they know the story broke on 4chan and deviations will be noticed. Twitter is an ultra short form platform that has already demonstrated political censorship. It also requires account verification through email and sometimes phone number. I don’t think it compares to 4chan for something like this.

joshuamorton 7y ago
> It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. This only works if you hold 4chan to be more reliable than the media. Given its history (think, like, QAnon) and love of trolling, this doesn't really work. This story was notable mostly because 4chan is notoriously unreliable. > Twitter is an ultra short form platform that has already demonstrated political censorship. Right, but you said that anonymity was important, not censorship. Is anonymity important, or is lack of censorship what matters? They're not the same thing.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > > It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. > This only works if you hold 4chan to be more reliable than the media. Given its history (think, like, QAnon) and love of trolling, this doesn't really work. This story was notable mostly because 4chan is notoriously unreliable. IMO, it also works if you view them both as unreliable but in different ways. Them agreeing is a stronger signal of truth than either independently.
  - LyndsySimon 7y ago
    I agree. I keep up with current events mostly through a couple of very popular niche forums, each with a few hundred thousand members. The news posted there is biased, of course, but mostly it's a selection bias. I use it because my interests (if not necessarily my perspective) overlap with those forums' topics. When I find something that piques my interest, then I'll seek out other sources for that particular story. I spend the majority of my "what's going on in the world?" time on ar15.com - but I don't assume that the stories posted there are accurate. I judge the reputation of the source from which it came, and if it's contentious, I'll purposefully look for alternative reporting. The bottom line is that no news outlet, "mainstream" or not, is without bias. There are decisions made on what constitutes news and stories are editorialized both explicitly and implicitly. There was a time when I spent a decent amount of time on 4chan, but the SNR is so low these days and the format is so hard to keep up with that I haven't bothered in years. Instead, I watch secondary sources who are watching the chans.
    - bigred100 7y ago
      I haven’t read ar15.com but at first glance my thought was: “Why would you hurt yourself by filling your head with such nonsense instead of just reading all or part of some reputable news service?” People don’t acknowledge the long-term costs (social or otherwise) of not making the right choice in this area. Spend too much time playing Sam Harris and now your wife is embarrassed to bring you to parties for fear of an outburst about Muslims. Read some other forum and now you’re fixated on weird parts of the news and an oddball narrative. Read an even worse forum and you’re dragged into political radicalization. These things happen everyday and we’re all at risk.
      - nradov 7y ago
        Cut the alarmist nonsense. Anyone like me who has critical thinking skills isn't at risk of political radicalization. And I don't care to be told what the "right" choice is.
        bigred100 7y ago
        Dislike
        effingwewt 7y ago
        You don't have to like something for it to be correct.
        bigred100 7y ago
        Getting your news from ar15.com is not correct in any meaningful interpretation
        LyndsySimon 7y ago
        Who said they "get their news from ar15.com"? I said I keep up with current events through that forum (and others). It serves as an aggregator for political topics for me in much the same way that this site serves as an aggregator for tech topics.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  > This only works if you hold 4chan to be more reliable than the media. They are both sources of information. One is corporate and politically approved, the other is a complete wild west. Totally different but worth comparing. > Right, but you said that anonymity was important, not censorship. Is anonymity important, or is lack of censorship what matters? They're not the same thing. Anonymity and censorship are related. People will self-censor if they can't be anonymous due to legal reasons, social shaming, financial reasons... Almost certainly the person that posted this on 4chan wouldn't if they had to attach their real name to it.
amazingman 7y ago
>It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. Okay but how do you verify the validity of what’s posted on 4chan, a troll site of trolls trolling trolls with troll posts?
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  You don't. 4chan isn't "valid", it's just another data source. I assume everything posted there is not only false, but a lie specifically crafted by someone very intelligent to mislead me. That said, when someone posts on 4chan that an event has occurred before news of that event has broken elsewhere, it's reasonable to compare the two. If the 4chan version is largely consistent but includes a couple of details that conflict with the "official" version, then I take that as an indication that maybe something was misreported. It would be folly to assume that the 4chan version was correct, even with the supporting evidence of it being first to break. Most of those "discrepancies" are just that, and I don't believe are intentional misinformation. Consider a topic for which you're an expert. Any topic. Now look at media coverage of that topic - is it accurate? Of course not. Details are usually wrong, terms and concepts are used inappropriately, and sometimes an article's entire premise is absurd. It makes sense to me that if reporting is that bad for the things I know well enough to know it's bad, it's likely that bad for everything else; I just often don't know enough about the topic to realize it.

joshuamorton 7y ago

> It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. This only works if you hold 4chan to be more reliable than the media. Given its history (think, like, QAnon) and love of trolling, this doesn't really work. This story was notable mostly because 4chan is notoriously unreliable. > Twitter is an ultra short form platform that has already demonstrated political censorship. Right, but you said that anonymity was important, not censorship. Is anonymity important, or is lack of censorship what matters? They're not the same thing.

DuskStar 7y ago
> > It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. > This only works if you hold 4chan to be more reliable than the media. Given its history (think, like, QAnon) and love of trolling, this doesn't really work. This story was notable mostly because 4chan is notoriously unreliable. IMO, it also works if you view them both as unreliable but in different ways. Them agreeing is a stronger signal of truth than either independently.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  I agree. I keep up with current events mostly through a couple of very popular niche forums, each with a few hundred thousand members. The news posted there is biased, of course, but mostly it's a selection bias. I use it because my interests (if not necessarily my perspective) overlap with those forums' topics. When I find something that piques my interest, then I'll seek out other sources for that particular story. I spend the majority of my "what's going on in the world?" time on ar15.com - but I don't assume that the stories posted there are accurate. I judge the reputation of the source from which it came, and if it's contentious, I'll purposefully look for alternative reporting. The bottom line is that no news outlet, "mainstream" or not, is without bias. There are decisions made on what constitutes news and stories are editorialized both explicitly and implicitly. There was a time when I spent a decent amount of time on 4chan, but the SNR is so low these days and the format is so hard to keep up with that I haven't bothered in years. Instead, I watch secondary sources who are watching the chans.
  - bigred100 7y ago
    I haven’t read ar15.com but at first glance my thought was: “Why would you hurt yourself by filling your head with such nonsense instead of just reading all or part of some reputable news service?” People don’t acknowledge the long-term costs (social or otherwise) of not making the right choice in this area. Spend too much time playing Sam Harris and now your wife is embarrassed to bring you to parties for fear of an outburst about Muslims. Read some other forum and now you’re fixated on weird parts of the news and an oddball narrative. Read an even worse forum and you’re dragged into political radicalization. These things happen everyday and we’re all at risk.
    - nradov 7y ago
      Cut the alarmist nonsense. Anyone like me who has critical thinking skills isn't at risk of political radicalization. And I don't care to be told what the "right" choice is.
      - bigred100 7y ago
        Dislike
        effingwewt 7y ago
        You don't have to like something for it to be correct.
        bigred100 7y ago
        Getting your news from ar15.com is not correct in any meaningful interpretation
        LyndsySimon 7y ago
        Who said they "get their news from ar15.com"? I said I keep up with current events through that forum (and others). It serves as an aggregator for political topics for me in much the same way that this site serves as an aggregator for tech topics.
malvosenior 7y ago
> This only works if you hold 4chan to be more reliable than the media. They are both sources of information. One is corporate and politically approved, the other is a complete wild west. Totally different but worth comparing. > Right, but you said that anonymity was important, not censorship. Is anonymity important, or is lack of censorship what matters? They're not the same thing. Anonymity and censorship are related. People will self-censor if they can't be anonymous due to legal reasons, social shaming, financial reasons... Almost certainly the person that posted this on 4chan wouldn't if they had to attach their real name to it.

amazingman 7y ago

>It’s valuable because you can compare what the media reports to what was posted on 4chan and look for discrepancies. Okay but how do you verify the validity of what’s posted on 4chan, a troll site of trolls trolling trolls with troll posts?

LyndsySimon 7y ago
You don't. 4chan isn't "valid", it's just another data source. I assume everything posted there is not only false, but a lie specifically crafted by someone very intelligent to mislead me. That said, when someone posts on 4chan that an event has occurred before news of that event has broken elsewhere, it's reasonable to compare the two. If the 4chan version is largely consistent but includes a couple of details that conflict with the "official" version, then I take that as an indication that maybe something was misreported. It would be folly to assume that the 4chan version was correct, even with the supporting evidence of it being first to break. Most of those "discrepancies" are just that, and I don't believe are intentional misinformation. Consider a topic for which you're an expert. Any topic. Now look at media coverage of that topic - is it accurate? Of course not. Details are usually wrong, terms and concepts are used inappropriately, and sometimes an article's entire premise is absurd. It makes sense to me that if reporting is that bad for the things I know well enough to know it's bad, it's likely that bad for everything else; I just often don't know enough about the topic to realize it.