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China Is Waging a Disinformation War Against Hong Kong Protesters
- DeonPenny 7y agoAlso doing the same thing to Taiwan, Australia, the US, and a bunch of other places.
- n-exploit 7y agoAnyone have a mirror?
- xvf22 7y agohttp://archive.is/I7axm http://archive.is/I7axm
- n-exploit 7y agoThank you!
- dvh 7y agoAt first I thought you're talking about disinformation in our countries.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoWould you settle for unavailable information in our countries?
- mc32 7y ago>”The assertion was more than just spin or fake news.” Wait, is there a difference, or is it just a matter of scope? Surely we know China is a great propaganda power. This is the bread and butter of any serious socialistic regime on the left and right. It’s no surprise and no revelation. What is surprising to me is the nonchalant approach to fake news western media is prone to when it comes to both domestic as well as foreign issues. So, yes China is foing bad things, but come on NYT, you also do the lesser evil when it fits your agenda (or doesn’t fit the agenda of the day)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- FakeComments 7y agoThe NYT calling others out for fake news is itself propaganda: the NYT routinely engages in fake news, but is fighting to portray itself as reputable while others engaged in the same aren’t. Like when the NYT completely blew the Covington story, due to its institutional animosity towards white people: > The New York Times, sober guardian of the exact and the nonsensational, had cannonballed into the delicious story on Saturday, titling its first piece “Boys in ‘Make America Great Again’ Hats Mob Native Elder at Indigenous Peoples March.” They were forced to print a retraction less than 24 hours later when facts contradicted their racism. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/media-must-learn-covington-catholic-story/581035/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/media-must...
- mLuby 7y ago>serious socialistic regime on the left and right What's the connection between "great propaganda power" and "serious socialistic regime"? Also what's a "socialistic regime on the right"?
- nindalf 7y agoNot the person you were replying to but there's this strange idea amongst alt-right folks that Nazis were socialists because the party called itself the National Socialist party. Could be referring to that.
- ceejayoz 7y agoInterestingly, these same folks are somehow able to see through the "Democratic Republic" part of "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". An odd blind spot.
- Causality1 7y agoIt's strange, but information like this makes me more sick to my stomach than if they were just crushing the protests with brute force.
- ziddoap 7y agoCareful what you wish for, looks like they might add in the brute force option soon: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/chinese-military-amasses-outside-hong-kong-as-protests-continue https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/chinese-military-ama... >"Beijing’s latest response to protesters came as a grave threat issued Tuesday morning through state-run media, saying Hong Kong citizens are "asking for self-destruction,"
- gerdesj 7y agoThe brute force bit might come later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoThey're gearing up for that, or at least posturing that it's coming - perhaps hoping the mere threat is enough. Troop exercises, exercises that would seem suited for civil war not crowd control, troop ships on the border: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/colour-revolution-jibe-implies-china-will-stop-at-little-to-crush-hong-kong-protests https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/colour-revolut...
- resouer 7y agoMe too, so sick of these governments (another example is US): http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45340184/ns/us_news-life/t/police-occupy-wall-street-protesters-arrested-nyc/#.XVMnR5NKgUs http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45340184/ns/us_news-life/t/police-... Why can't these brute countries just show a bit mercy to these peaceful protesters?
- sniperjzp 7y agoNYT, please stop disinformation too! Yes, there are fake news flying around in China, but at least you could do better, don't you? Video taken today in HK of the protesters: https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161334705570009089?s=20 https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161334705570009089?s=20
- aaomidi 7y agoThis is serious whataboutism, and actually is related to what the article is saying.
- BubRoss 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=sniperjzp https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=sniperjzp Most of the comments from the last four months are actually whataboutism in response to criticism of China.
- aaomidi 7y agoYep. And I love how I'm getting downvoted too!
- BubRoss 7y agoI had nothing either way, then suddenly multiple downvotes right around 8 a.m. Beijing time. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Edit: And very swiftly more downvotes and comment flags. Seems a little more stochato than a typical bad comment that gathers a few downvotes over time.
- jjcc 7y agoWhataboutism is another concept , say, take an hypothetical example, that French police did same thing and French media also make disinformation. Here the OP just claim that NYT report only one side story while hide another story. If his claim is true or not everybody can check.
- lawrenceyan 7y ago
- justicezyx 7y agoWhat's the formal demands from the HK protests? Can someone point to some official documents from the protesters?
- dawhizkid 7y agoCarrie Lam's resignation, plus: The complete withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill The government to withdraw the use of the word “riot” in relation to protests The unconditional release of arrested protesters and charges against them dropped An independent inquiry into police behaviour Implementation of genuine universal suffrage Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/what-do-the-hong-kong-protesters-want https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/what-do-the-ho...
- baby 7y agoThey want the word "riot" to be dismissed because it allows the gov to put protesters in jail for up to 10 years
- justicezyx 7y ago> The complete withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill Reasonable. > The government to withdraw the use of the word “riot” in relation to protests Unfortunately, not reasonable. OK, now it's no longer factual to say that it's not a "riot". I do not defend either side, but let's be sure to use the word correctly. > The unconditional release of arrested protesters and charges against them dropped Sorry, not reasonable. What about the protester who is claimed to bite off a police's finger: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3018831/hong-kong-protester-appears-court-accused-biting https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/30... > An independent inquiry into police behaviour Reasonable. But there will be an independent inquiry being requested on the protesters as well. I am not suggesting that, I am just saying obviously Chines government is going to demand that as well. > Implementation of genuine universal suffrage Moderately reasonable. You are asking a country to adopt a different political system in a prominent area. But if you want to retrieve the skin of a lion by asking politely, or assume you only suffer minor scratch, you'd better prepare to get killed.
- paulcarroty 7y agoTypical USSR/North Korea style. "Sometimes the smallest things take up the most room in your heart." (c) Winnie the Pooh
- justicezyx 7y agoI do not meant to defend either side. But the first comment on the NYT article has the following statement: """ Well dear reporters, you failed to mention the fact that the story actually first started on Facebook. Some guy who claimed himself the victim’s brother posted on FB saying his sister was actually shot by her fellow protesters accidentally. This incident is now heartedly discussed on a popular online community in HK(https://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=28439217 https://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=28439217). Those who can understand written Cantonese can take a look. Anyway dear reporters, those above may not qualify to be a reliable source but still...the “state-run” media didn’t make up the story out of nowhere. """ My feeling is just that the news report in modern time is simply no longer fact-driven.
- pwinnski 7y agoMy feeling is that I'm seeing a lot of comments from people whose usernames are a common word plus three characters that defend China in a backhanded way. It's just a feeling, but I'd say that's about as credible as these comments.
- justicezyx 7y agoIn terms of feeling, we know which government can easily out number any other country on this planet...
- pwinnski 7y agoIt's hard to even know what you're trying to say here. You feel your country can beat up Hong Kong?
- reaperducer 7y agoIt doesn't have to be a feeling. It's been well documented that the Chinese government has a group of people that it employs to spread pro-Chinese propaganda and downvoted perceived threatening speech on social web sites around the world. HN has been a target of this brigade for years.
- baby 7y agoBtw. There was another thread[1] which got a bunch of points and comments very quickly and got bounced out of the front page very quickly as well. Are posts about China/Hong Kong being penalized on HN? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20687266 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20687266
- jerf 7y agoProbably people flagging it. I tend to flag stories that are "just news" and don't have a particularly compelling link to standard HN topics, or ones in which HN isn't going to have any particularly interesting angle to add to the conversation unique to the community's strengths, or ones that are coming up a lot, like this one. (I mean, yes, nominally everything is on topic, but there's still boundaries.) There's a strong attractor basin around discussing the same news as everybody else that's worth pushing HN away from, in general.
- baby 7y agoI really hope people can stop flagging these then. One of the world's capital is about to go down and this is going to impact all of us.
- dfabulich 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
- condercet 7y agoOkay, then let's talk about the protester's novel tactics and use of technology to coordinate a distributed, leaderless protest. That seems like it should be fair game.
- 7y ago
- cronix 7y agoSays the paper who changes accurate neutral headlines to more politically editorialized ones at the whim of protesters. China, you just need to start a public #cancelnyt campaign like the others did and they'll bow to you, too. https://www.thewrap.com/new-york-times-top-editor-dean-baquet-hot-seat-trump-coverage/ https://www.thewrap.com/new-york-times-top-editor-dean-baque...
- akhilcacharya 7y agoIgnoring critical context does not make for a good headline. "Trump Urges Unity Vs. Racism" is an incredibly light-touch headline that paints a different reality than one all Americans have lived in since May 2011.
- dawhizkid 7y agoI was taken aback by a recent conversation with an very Americanized Chinese Harvard grad (grew up in Northern Cal) who genuinely asked me after having said my parents are from Taiwan whether it's true if the people of Taiwan think China is "a part of Taiwan." I couldn't believe that any person in the West could believe such a thing, and the only explanation is that Chinese disformation spreads far and wide beyond China's own borders.
- cameldrv 7y agoThe official name of Taiwan is the Republic of China. That government used to control all of China. Then there was a communist revolution and the ROC government fled to Taiwan, still claiming to be the rightful government of China, merely having been forced to make a tactical retreat. This is still the official position of the ROC government, even if no one really believes that the ROC will one day return and reconquer the mainland. Now to be fair, Taiwan probably would have simply declared independence and given up on the mainland but for fear that this would lead to a PRC invasion. The government even really acts officially as if it is the government of all of China sometimes, such as its support of the PRC in certain maritime claims. The ROC claims certain islands are "part of China" even though they would fall under the physical control of the PRC and thus don't really concern Taiwan.
- CommieBobDole 7y agoIsn't that the official position of the Taiwanese government, though - that they are the only legitimate government of all of China and the current administration of the PRC are not legitimate? I understand that there's a diversity of opinion among the people of Taiwan (and some mixed messages from the government itself) regarding the issue, but it doesn't seem unbelievable that someone might think that the people of Taiwan share a belief in their country's official policy. Is there something I'm missing?
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoWhen the nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949, they wound up killing a lot of the intelligentsia already there. So you had a huge divide between pre-1949 Chinese (mainly of fujian descent), who became the populous working class of the island, and the minority 1949 mainlanders, who became the richer factory owners and such (and also ruled the country in a dictatorship until the 80s). To add more kindling to the fire, the Japanese treated the Taiwanese pretty fairly before the war ended, with Taiwanese considered almost as full Japanese citizens (unlike the Koreans). So whenever these questions are addressed, it isn’t just antagonism against the PRC that comes through, but also a lot of antagonism for the ROC. Now that the opposition can easily win elections, they have mostly become the ROC government, but they don’t buy those original tenants of mainland unity at all (though they don’t have the power to change them, nor do they want to antagonize the PRC as much as they would if they could).
- jammygit 7y agoI wonder if there was a way to help the protestors. They have shown amazing resolve and discipline so far
- minwell 7y agoThere are: 1. go to HK, if you are white ppl, congratulations, they will definitely listen to you 2. tell the protestors don't randomly kill ppl just because he/she come from mainland China/speak Mandarin, it's so Nazism. 3. don't continuing burning/destroying public facilities, facilities won't give them freedom. 4. stop blocking Metro and flight, the HK citizens need to work and raise families, please keep "discipline". Thanks!
- em3rgent0rdr 7y agoOther democracies should offer automatic asylum status to anyone who wants to get out now.
- larryme 7y agoIf you truly want to help the protestors, please tell them to keep calm, violence and blocking other ppl's life is not how satyagraha works, they will lose support from western ppl. Check interview from Richard Scotford and you know what I mean.
- baby 7y agoIs there a way to donate? I've heard that because of the daily protests people are losing a lot of money, and protestors can't afford food/masks/protections.
- reaperducer 7y ago"Just send a few tanks over to clean them up." It's ironic that this was written by someone whose government has made it illegal for him to learn what happened the last time his government cleaned up some protestors with tanks.
- bobbylarrybobby 7y agoNot really ironic — it’s to be expected
- sixothree 7y agoNot related to China, but I am noticing more disinformation on sites I would not expect - like even imgur for example.
- OrgNet 7y agoImgur is not any better then reddit in this regard...
- larryme 7y agoFor anyone "wish" Chinese gov send tanks or armies, you will be disappointed, this gov really learned a lot from 1989. Those videos about military movements in Shenzhen are released by official medias from China, which is obvious bluffer: if they want to do sth, they will definitely do it secretly, and just another reminder, China do have a lot legal armies in HK.
- BubRoss 7y agoThat's interesting that you are able to predict the actions of and speak for, the Chinese military. I'm skeptical though of a 3 year old name with 3 comments, two of which are from today and similar in tone and grammar to other obvious Chinese propoganda posts.