6 ms·

The US doesn't have a citizen score, political re-education camps, Tiananmen Square massacre, widespread censorship (like disconnecting a phone when you say a c

The US doesn't have a citizen score, political re-education camps, Tiananmen Square massacre, widespread censorship (like disconnecting a phone when you say a certain word), filtering of all foreign content and blocking of sites like Wikipedia or New York Times, BBC News, massive displacements and forced re-settlements, a vast number of political prisoners, massive squelching of protests and demonstrations (right now, there are videos of large troop movements towards Hong Kong), and so on. Not to speak of Tibet... Anyway, my point was not primarily meant political, it was more that Huawei has good chances of succeeding with this OS, because they are backed up and supported by the Chinese government. That's true even if you are 100% pro Chinese one-party government.

pjmlp 7y ago
You mean like Guantanamo? Or the ones managed by CIA outside American borders to do it more cleanly?
- mika9090 7y ago
  If you are comparing camps that hosts millions to a camp that host a few hundreds people, none of which is a citizen were you have the right as a citizen to protest against without being send to it. You are simply pathetic.
- camgunz 7y ago
  Guantanamo is bad, no question. But there's a chasm between holding 800 foreign nationals (and, from time to time, traitorous Americans) and rounding up millions of ethnic minorities for re-education based on their race, religion, or politics. If you looked up false equivalence in the dictionary, this would be Exhibit A.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haska_Meyna_wedding_party_airstrike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haska_Meyna_wedding_party_ai...
    - camgunz 7y ago
      Moving the goalposts isn't helpful; let's skip to the end. I'm no believer in American Exceptionalism. I've read A People's History, I'm pretty familiar with the crisis of mass incarceration and the general failure of our criminal justice system, I'm well-informed about widespread domestic surveillance and espionage programs, and I'm deeply cynical about US foreign policy as a whole. But even someone like me has to admit that the US is closer to a free state than China. Here's why I think that: - Our court system is constantly in the throes of "freedom" vs. "tyranny" (lots of judges disagree with Citizens United, for example. - We have a free press that is constantly critical of our president and government. - I can be critical of our president and government with absolutely no repercussions from my government. - We give billions in foreign aid. - We still accept tons of asylum and immigration applications - In fact many of our cities are "sanctuary cities" for immigrants - We celebrate the history of Americans who have fought for fundamental freedoms and civil rights - We are the most diverse nation on the planet, and many of us are intensely proud of it. - We have free elections. - Don't @ me about election problems; they're still nothing like the fraudulent elections in Russia/China/etc. - We have healthy opposition parties. - We actually believe the US is a work in progress, not "perfect as it is" (see: "a more perfect union"). Sure there's a lot of work to do. And I'm sympathetic to the fact that China and Russia face different challenges than we do. But I absolutely refuse to accept the assertion that the US is anywhere near the same point on the authoritarian spectrum as they are. Such comparisons are facile, ignorant, and reinforce a nihilistic vision of Western, classically liberal values that is at the root of the rise of nationalism and authoritarianism -- which is itself responsible for the destruction of many millions of lives across the world. These things are not the same, any more than Democrats and Republicans are the same. One is clearly better than the other, and it is literally a matter of life and death that we figure that out.

pjmlp 7y ago

You mean like Guantanamo? Or the ones managed by CIA outside American borders to do it more cleanly?

mika9090 7y ago
If you are comparing camps that hosts millions to a camp that host a few hundreds people, none of which is a citizen were you have the right as a citizen to protest against without being send to it. You are simply pathetic.
camgunz 7y ago
Guantanamo is bad, no question. But there's a chasm between holding 800 foreign nationals (and, from time to time, traitorous Americans) and rounding up millions of ethnic minorities for re-education based on their race, religion, or politics. If you looked up false equivalence in the dictionary, this would be Exhibit A.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haska_Meyna_wedding_party_airstrike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haska_Meyna_wedding_party_ai...
  - camgunz 7y ago
    Moving the goalposts isn't helpful; let's skip to the end. I'm no believer in American Exceptionalism. I've read A People's History, I'm pretty familiar with the crisis of mass incarceration and the general failure of our criminal justice system, I'm well-informed about widespread domestic surveillance and espionage programs, and I'm deeply cynical about US foreign policy as a whole. But even someone like me has to admit that the US is closer to a free state than China. Here's why I think that: - Our court system is constantly in the throes of "freedom" vs. "tyranny" (lots of judges disagree with Citizens United, for example. - We have a free press that is constantly critical of our president and government. - I can be critical of our president and government with absolutely no repercussions from my government. - We give billions in foreign aid. - We still accept tons of asylum and immigration applications - In fact many of our cities are "sanctuary cities" for immigrants - We celebrate the history of Americans who have fought for fundamental freedoms and civil rights - We are the most diverse nation on the planet, and many of us are intensely proud of it. - We have free elections. - Don't @ me about election problems; they're still nothing like the fraudulent elections in Russia/China/etc. - We have healthy opposition parties. - We actually believe the US is a work in progress, not "perfect as it is" (see: "a more perfect union"). Sure there's a lot of work to do. And I'm sympathetic to the fact that China and Russia face different challenges than we do. But I absolutely refuse to accept the assertion that the US is anywhere near the same point on the authoritarian spectrum as they are. Such comparisons are facile, ignorant, and reinforce a nihilistic vision of Western, classically liberal values that is at the root of the rise of nationalism and authoritarianism -- which is itself responsible for the destruction of many millions of lives across the world. These things are not the same, any more than Democrats and Republicans are the same. One is clearly better than the other, and it is literally a matter of life and death that we figure that out.