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It’s possible to encounter a concept and not emotionally “get it.” It’s one thing to hear about something on TV and another entirely to change your entire life

It’s possible to encounter a concept and not emotionally “get it.” It’s one thing to hear about something on TV and another entirely to change your entire life. If it were “gotten” by the masses via Disney shows, we’d all stop chasing it at all. Social ties and bonds existed before money, achieved via other means. So yeah we don’t all “get it” in the same way. As someone with enough to retire on at 40, money feels pretty pointless to me. Same old cheeseburger or whatever Gates said. It’s what other people gave me for satisfying their goals. ️ Economic anxiety, a policy pushed by financial planners, is what motivates. Not money.

xwdv 7y ago
No, even if you realized all that to it's full extent, the fact is we don't get to choose how we live if we plan to live in our current world for very long. Imagine we lived in a violent brutal world where it was kill or be killed. Even if you realize that killing only brings you stress and unhappiness, you won't last very long if you stop doing it. As soon as you lay down your arms someone will come and bash your head in with a hammer and take what's left of your belongings and family. You could decide money and the rat race are pointless and decide to just stop pursuing it. And you'll survive... for a time. Then you won't be able to function in society. Won't be able to eat, or have a place to live, effectively the equivalent of having your skull bashed in like in that previous world.
- oroeo92k 7y ago
  That’s why I said “economic anxiety” is the motivator. I didn’t say there wasn’t a motivator. I said it isn’t money. Until about a hundred years ago, most folks were self employed and chased down whatever they needed for the day. It’s in that last few hundred it became mostly about money for the masses. There are people that live isolated and off the grid lives, unmotivated by money & rat race. Your idea of survival & what makes a good life may not match up with others. But in the context of daily life of the masses, you’re correct in that we all just chase the popular social meme. It HAPPENS TO BE money, but it could be bottle caps get you stuff that supply side is selling. It’s what supply side accepts or gtfo. The threat of being evicted from the only life one knows is not literal death, but it feels like it, so we chase money, not bottle caps as a pragmatic acquiescence to social forces.
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  I have friends who are doing this. They live on land rent-free which is owned by someone who wishes property ownership wasn't a thing. They grow their own food. They dumpster dive for perfectly good food. They process and eat roadkill deer. These people live fulfilling lives and work to contribute to each others' well-being and the well-being of others. I'm working on finding a similar living situation for my partner and our child. Your ideas about what happens when someone quits the rat race are false and fear-based. We don't live in a kill-or-be-killed world and we have many choices about how we live.
  - heavenlyblue 7y ago
    What happens to the deer population when everyone in the US starts road-killing them for food?
    - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
      There are literally a whole ecosystems to learn to be interdependent with. Farming is still a thing, too. The deer are simply a single example of a way to eat. Hunting is also a thing. Don't buy into the myths of scarcity and learned helplessness society uses to get people to play along. Everyone's capable of learning how to reconnect with and be an active contributor to nature. We simply have a society that operates competitively with nature, rather than mutualistically, and it shows.
      - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        Sorry, hunter-gatherer never supported a civilization. It took big Ag to feed a city full of people. The back-to-nature theme is fine for privileged landowning educated people. But the vast majority of everybody everywhere is dependent on the local grocery.
        crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
        That's a choice everyone's making. There are other ways, and big Ag isn't the only one. Sitting in the current solutions instead of looking to evolve them and learning from the past isn't how hypersanity works. And yes, hypersanity is probably the most extreme form of privilege. Also, the back-to-nature theme is great, not merely fine, and something indigenous cultures are trying to reclaim as a human birthright. They're arguably way less privileged by your standards. Privilege isn't a reason to dismiss a good idea. Treating nature as something to live with collaboratively rather than avoid or treat as subservient/separate from us isn't privilege. It's science. Mutualism > competition.
- orwin 7y ago
  Go visit back-to-landers hippies from the early 70s, they lived quasi of-grid for almost 50 years now, all play music everyday, some of them (the youngest) can still ride their horses everyday, and they eat whatever they grow. Poorest people in the US, poorest than some homeless, but they still live really well, and better than most i shall say. They chose how to live their dreams, did it for ~50 years and still ended up pretty comfortably. If they had the same viewpoint you have, they would probably have lived miserably until an Oxycontin OD.
  - heavenlyblue 7y ago
    Did those hippies take advantage of the medical insurance they didn’t have when they got cancer in those 50 years?
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    That also means they don't get many of the benefits of modern society, I would think. What do they do when their child becomes a type 1 diabetic? Or goes into shock from an allergic reaction?
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      Same thing that happens to people in New York City who can't afford fast-acting insulin or EpiPen? Your two examples are telling given the current state of pharma business.
      - collyw 7y ago
        That should probably read: Your two examples are telling given the current state American healthcare system. I don't think its a problem in Europe.
      - RHSeeger 7y ago
        I hate this meme; and that's what is is nowadays, a meme. There are generics for both EpiPen and fast acting insulin. You can walk into a Walmart and buy R for $25/bottle [1]; it didn't even require a prescription, the last I bought it. Sure, it's not as good as Apidra and the like, but it does work; it just requires a more controlled diet. The generic EpiPen is just over $100 for a 2-pack. I get it, there's stories every now and then of some person that died because they couldn't afford their insulin (for $275/bottle). And every time I stare at the story wondering why that person decided to kill themself for reason. I get it that newer insulins should be cheaper, that they're way over priced. But it's disingenuous to pretend there aren't options for people that can't afford them. [1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/novolin-r-relion/129783484 https://www.walmart.com/ip/novolin-r-relion/129783484
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
> If it were “gotten” by the masses via Disney shows, we’d all stop chasing it at all. This is such a common thing to think, but why, where is it based on? Why would you think that most people are still "chasing it" disproportionately? If you become enligthened (for the sake of simplicity, let's equate enlightenment with realization that material wealth is not the source of happiness and not the meaning of life) - if you realize it about wealth, it does not mean that you stop working, that you stop getting money, stop producing value, stop function in society. If you would do that you would just sit somethere in the forest and do nothing all day, which is not the meaning of life either. Instead you see material wealth for what it is - only a piece of the puzzle, not something that your happiness is directly conected to, but somethint that still makes sense to get in a small amount so that you provide your life with basic necessities for you and your family, and so that you can dedicate the rest of the time to self-development, spiritual growth, freedom etc. It doesn't mean that you disconnect from the society completely - that's not what happiness is about. Happiness is about balance, and seing things for what they are. Seing wealth as a tool, not as a source of happiness. And there are a lot of people who already live like that! Sure there is a small amount that strives for wealth for the sake of wealth and kill their health in the pursuit of career success, but the rest are just living their lives. So yes absolutely there are a lot of people who get (in terms of integrating into their life, and not just hearing them as a distant logical idea) these concepts that come up in disney movies.
- oroeo92k 7y ago
  Edit: I’m too tired to debate, it’s not coming out how I intend, and tbh I don’t really feel any obligation to satisfy you. Getting into a back and forth online in a no stakes social forum is asinine.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
    Thank you for your honesty.
  - 7y ago
heavenlyblue 7y ago
>> As someone with enough to retire on at 40, money feels pretty pointless to me. Of course it feels pointless to you - you don’t _need_ any more of it. It feels pointless to me too, but my background wouldn’t allow me to live anywhere but on the street at my current age of 28 (without money, that is). I hope by 40 I will eventually earn enough to retire and be the same champagne socialist as you currently sound.
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  You get to craft your path. Period. Don't want to live on the streets? How about in the woods? Is that too hard? How about with an old person who's dying and needs help around the house in exchange for room and board? What about living at a temple or monastery? Living a life of service to others opens doors not available to those who sell themselves purely for personal gain. Have you identified the fundamental needs for humans to thrive? You can google "universal needs" if not and then see if you can find ways to meet all your needs without money. The perceived need for money goes down for those who learn alternative strategies for meeting their needs, are open to the possibilities, and trust themselves more than the world says to.

xwdv 7y ago

No, even if you realized all that to it's full extent, the fact is we don't get to choose how we live if we plan to live in our current world for very long. Imagine we lived in a violent brutal world where it was kill or be killed. Even if you realize that killing only brings you stress and unhappiness, you won't last very long if you stop doing it. As soon as you lay down your arms someone will come and bash your head in with a hammer and take what's left of your belongings and family. You could decide money and the rat race are pointless and decide to just stop pursuing it. And you'll survive... for a time. Then you won't be able to function in society. Won't be able to eat, or have a place to live, effectively the equivalent of having your skull bashed in like in that previous world.

oroeo92k 7y ago
That’s why I said “economic anxiety” is the motivator. I didn’t say there wasn’t a motivator. I said it isn’t money. Until about a hundred years ago, most folks were self employed and chased down whatever they needed for the day. It’s in that last few hundred it became mostly about money for the masses. There are people that live isolated and off the grid lives, unmotivated by money & rat race. Your idea of survival & what makes a good life may not match up with others. But in the context of daily life of the masses, you’re correct in that we all just chase the popular social meme. It HAPPENS TO BE money, but it could be bottle caps get you stuff that supply side is selling. It’s what supply side accepts or gtfo. The threat of being evicted from the only life one knows is not literal death, but it feels like it, so we chase money, not bottle caps as a pragmatic acquiescence to social forces.
crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
I have friends who are doing this. They live on land rent-free which is owned by someone who wishes property ownership wasn't a thing. They grow their own food. They dumpster dive for perfectly good food. They process and eat roadkill deer. These people live fulfilling lives and work to contribute to each others' well-being and the well-being of others. I'm working on finding a similar living situation for my partner and our child. Your ideas about what happens when someone quits the rat race are false and fear-based. We don't live in a kill-or-be-killed world and we have many choices about how we live.
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  What happens to the deer population when everyone in the US starts road-killing them for food?
  - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
    There are literally a whole ecosystems to learn to be interdependent with. Farming is still a thing, too. The deer are simply a single example of a way to eat. Hunting is also a thing. Don't buy into the myths of scarcity and learned helplessness society uses to get people to play along. Everyone's capable of learning how to reconnect with and be an active contributor to nature. We simply have a society that operates competitively with nature, rather than mutualistically, and it shows.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      Sorry, hunter-gatherer never supported a civilization. It took big Ag to feed a city full of people. The back-to-nature theme is fine for privileged landowning educated people. But the vast majority of everybody everywhere is dependent on the local grocery.
      - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
        That's a choice everyone's making. There are other ways, and big Ag isn't the only one. Sitting in the current solutions instead of looking to evolve them and learning from the past isn't how hypersanity works. And yes, hypersanity is probably the most extreme form of privilege. Also, the back-to-nature theme is great, not merely fine, and something indigenous cultures are trying to reclaim as a human birthright. They're arguably way less privileged by your standards. Privilege isn't a reason to dismiss a good idea. Treating nature as something to live with collaboratively rather than avoid or treat as subservient/separate from us isn't privilege. It's science. Mutualism > competition.
orwin 7y ago
Go visit back-to-landers hippies from the early 70s, they lived quasi of-grid for almost 50 years now, all play music everyday, some of them (the youngest) can still ride their horses everyday, and they eat whatever they grow. Poorest people in the US, poorest than some homeless, but they still live really well, and better than most i shall say. They chose how to live their dreams, did it for ~50 years and still ended up pretty comfortably. If they had the same viewpoint you have, they would probably have lived miserably until an Oxycontin OD.
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  Did those hippies take advantage of the medical insurance they didn’t have when they got cancer in those 50 years?
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  That also means they don't get many of the benefits of modern society, I would think. What do they do when their child becomes a type 1 diabetic? Or goes into shock from an allergic reaction?
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Same thing that happens to people in New York City who can't afford fast-acting insulin or EpiPen? Your two examples are telling given the current state of pharma business.
    - collyw 7y ago
      That should probably read: Your two examples are telling given the current state American healthcare system. I don't think its a problem in Europe.
    - RHSeeger 7y ago
      I hate this meme; and that's what is is nowadays, a meme. There are generics for both EpiPen and fast acting insulin. You can walk into a Walmart and buy R for $25/bottle [1]; it didn't even require a prescription, the last I bought it. Sure, it's not as good as Apidra and the like, but it does work; it just requires a more controlled diet. The generic EpiPen is just over $100 for a 2-pack. I get it, there's stories every now and then of some person that died because they couldn't afford their insulin (for $275/bottle). And every time I stare at the story wondering why that person decided to kill themself for reason. I get it that newer insulins should be cheaper, that they're way over priced. But it's disingenuous to pretend there aren't options for people that can't afford them. [1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/novolin-r-relion/129783484 https://www.walmart.com/ip/novolin-r-relion/129783484

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

> If it were “gotten” by the masses via Disney shows, we’d all stop chasing it at all. This is such a common thing to think, but why, where is it based on? Why would you think that most people are still "chasing it" disproportionately? If you become enligthened (for the sake of simplicity, let's equate enlightenment with realization that material wealth is not the source of happiness and not the meaning of life) - if you realize it about wealth, it does not mean that you stop working, that you stop getting money, stop producing value, stop function in society. If you would do that you would just sit somethere in the forest and do nothing all day, which is not the meaning of life either. Instead you see material wealth for what it is - only a piece of the puzzle, not something that your happiness is directly conected to, but somethint that still makes sense to get in a small amount so that you provide your life with basic necessities for you and your family, and so that you can dedicate the rest of the time to self-development, spiritual growth, freedom etc. It doesn't mean that you disconnect from the society completely - that's not what happiness is about. Happiness is about balance, and seing things for what they are. Seing wealth as a tool, not as a source of happiness. And there are a lot of people who already live like that! Sure there is a small amount that strives for wealth for the sake of wealth and kill their health in the pursuit of career success, but the rest are just living their lives. So yes absolutely there are a lot of people who get (in terms of integrating into their life, and not just hearing them as a distant logical idea) these concepts that come up in disney movies.

oroeo92k 7y ago
Edit: I’m too tired to debate, it’s not coming out how I intend, and tbh I don’t really feel any obligation to satisfy you. Getting into a back and forth online in a no stakes social forum is asinine.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  Thank you for your honesty.
- 7y ago

heavenlyblue 7y ago

>> As someone with enough to retire on at 40, money feels pretty pointless to me. Of course it feels pointless to you - you don’t _need_ any more of it. It feels pointless to me too, but my background wouldn’t allow me to live anywhere but on the street at my current age of 28 (without money, that is). I hope by 40 I will eventually earn enough to retire and be the same champagne socialist as you currently sound.

crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
You get to craft your path. Period. Don't want to live on the streets? How about in the woods? Is that too hard? How about with an old person who's dying and needs help around the house in exchange for room and board? What about living at a temple or monastery? Living a life of service to others opens doors not available to those who sell themselves purely for personal gain. Have you identified the fundamental needs for humans to thrive? You can google "universal needs" if not and then see if you can find ways to meet all your needs without money. The perceived need for money goes down for those who learn alternative strategies for meeting their needs, are open to the possibilities, and trust themselves more than the world says to.