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Anxiety Looks Different in Men

• gavia1 7y ago
  This surprises me as a male who suffers from anxiety and exhibits none of these symptoms. To be more specific my anxiety manifests as a feeling of unease, sometimes fear; and at times blends in with OCD where I become unsure of my short term memory and whether or not something did or did not happen.
  • jdsfighter 7y ago
    I was only recently diagnosed with anxiety after spending thousands and thousands on an emergency room visit and visits to a cardiologist, and I work for a healthcare company with free access to GPs! I had a variety of symptoms and none of them immediately seemed to shout "anxiety" to my physicians. I was given dozens of blood screenings, X-Rays, CT Scans, EKGs, Echocardiograms, stress tests, sleep studies, only to be told that my heart is in wonderful shape, and that all of my symptoms were probably anxiety (and after being put on Lexapro for several months, the bulk of the issues really seem to have resolved). I was experiencing: chest tightness, left-side chest and arm pains, random dizziness, random feelings of disorientation, massive blood pressure spikes that would last for hours (110/70 -> 190/120), headaches, pressure in my left abdomen, heart palpitations, and several more very worrying symptoms. At the end of the day, it all seemingly boiled down to a generalized anxiety disorder.
    • deleted 7y ago
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    • koboll 7y ago
      Had almost exactly the same problem, down to identical symptoms -- same side of my body, etc. My guess it that it's due to some supplements I was taking years ago (chiefly 5-HTP and magnesium) causing chest pain and/or heart palpitations, and the experience of that etching trauma into my psyche in a way that makes me experience physical symptoms. The worst part is that it feeds on itself, until I was sitting on a sidewalk having a panic attack causing massive hyperventilation and crushing chest pain, certain I was having a heart attack, barely able to dial 911. Unfortunately it took $8000 in hospital bills from multiple emergency room visits to figure this out.
      • jpernst 7y ago
        Similar experience, including multiple trips to the ER fearing my imminent death. Still waiting for the bill on the latest one. The first time it happened I had dialed 911 on my phone but stopped short, fearing the impending life-ruining debt it might plunge me into. Thankfully it wasn't actually a heart attack, but the fact that people even have to stop to make a risk assessment like that is dystopian. As for the symptoms, it is indeed astonishing how "physical" anxiety can be. Most people conceive of anxiety as just an emotional state, and think a "panic attack" is what you have when you're really nervous about a math test and get a cold sweat. The true horror of a real panic attack can't be described to someone who hasn't experienced that level of mortal terror. And it's definitely true that once the trauma is "etched" into you like you describe, your mind can reconstruct it again much more easily. I find physical sensations that used to be mildly annoying, like a stomach cramp or post-exercise exhaustion, can summon the anxiety right back again. The scientific evidence for the long-term effectiveness of SSRIs is dubious at best, so I'm attempting a more comprehensive life change to improve my outlook, including trying to build stronger connections with people and community. Isolation is one of the most intense causes of depression and anxiety, among other health problems, so addressing it is a good idea for anyone.
        • smithmayowa 7y ago
          It is saddening to hear that the fear of resulting financial debt due to hospital bills, stopped you short from dialing 911 in such a precarious situation. There goes my fantasy that in the west at least health care was top notch and affordable compared to Africa.
          • Kye 7y ago
            The propaganda we export out of the US regarding our wealth is self-delusion. A lot of people here believe many fantastical things that should be trivially dispelled by skimming GoFundMe's Discover page.
            • throwaway94857 7y ago
    • nxc18 7y ago
      Similar situation. I kept going to the doctors for a while, but they insist everything is fine. I’ve got anxiety in general, but also some more specific health anxiety from a history of being obese. I’ve fixed the issue now, but the statistical reason to believe that _this time_ there’s actually something wrong doesn’t help the anxiety. I spend a lot of time convincing myself that yes, I can in fact breathe right now, and no, I’m not actively dying of a heart attack. Very stressful situation
    • empath75 7y ago
      Same! I even got my appendix removed and probably didn’t need it. My cardiologist is who finally told me that it was anxiety and convinced me. I never took medication though. Just cut back on caffeine and lots of rest once I get wound up.
    • goostavos 7y ago
      Have you had any mood / behavioral changes from the lexapro? I similarly stacked up a ton of doctor visits due to dizziness, chest tightness, blood pressure spikes, etc... My doc is leaning towards the same generalized axiety /panic disorder, but were currently experimenting with just taking an antihistamine to calm down. "Real" medication is the next step, but, honestly, the thought of having to take something "altering" for the rest of my life is itself anxiety causing. The most bizarre thing with the whole whole anxiety business was its sudden onset. Everything was fine, and then one day it wasn't.
      • RickS 7y ago
        Lexapro preserved my personality shockingly well. A friend who took it said the same thing. We felt like ourselves the whole time, just without so much anxiety. If you drink caffeine or consume sugar, the "altering" thing is already out the window. And it doesn't have to be your whole life. I'm off it after a few years. The only downside to lexapro was that my anxiety and depression were partly if not primarily the result of a bunch of poor mental models and resulting poor life choices. I believed a bunch of mean shit about myself, and so looked after myself with a commensurate neglect. On the meds, I kept living poorly; I just wasn't so acutely distraught about it. It did work to alleviate my anxiety, and in the process train me to catch panic attacks early and think myself out of a spiral. I'm glad I took it when I did, because it helped and I didn't have the courage or wherewithal to go to therapy that early in my life. But I'm also glad I'm off it. Unless your anxiety is seriously debilitating, I would suggest you spend 6 months in CBT / talk therapy, before going on medication. Or go on em but also do therapy simultaneously. Either something in your mind is generating this anxiety, and it's worth it to get under the hood and treat the underlying issue. Or it's truly random, and it's a good idea to train your mind to be resilient to such things.
      • jdsfighter 7y ago
        We initially tried Metoprolol for, but we found that while it stopped the palpitations, the panic attacks still happened just as often. For me, Lexapro really was a win/win drug. My personality hasn't changed much aside from the fact that my overall emotions are a bit more muted. If my normal emotional range is a 0-10, on Lexapro it's closer to a 3-7. There are some sexually related side effects that you may want to look up as well. I have personally experienced some, but I don't consider them serious by any means. And my attacks, like yours, just started happening out of the blue one day. No real prior warnings.
    • markwaldron 7y ago
      I had a very similar experience. Started when I was 25 after a 3 month stint of being unemployed. It started with a panic attack (which I thought was a heart attack at the time), and I ended up going to the hospital, a cardiologist, sleep clinic, gastro, etc. until eventually came to the conclusion it was nothing wrong with my heart but rather panic disorder. I take a low dose of xanax now and all the symptoms went away and I no longer have panic attacks. I'm working on finding a better daily medication, but it completely changed my life to have a temporary solution after 3+ years of struggle and suffering with panic attacks multiple times per week.
      • xkcd-sucks 7y ago
        So I just have to ask because I've experienced tons of panic attacks but also have very strong family history of death by cardiac arrest -- Is there a subjective, experiential way to differentiate between the two? I always assume it's a panic attack "and if it's not just die in bed" but...
        • markwaldron 7y ago
          I agree with what jdsfighter said - you should go to the doctor to get some confidence that there isn't some sort of underlying heart issue. After that though, it's really a mental game that requires/required some therapy. My panic attacks last from 3-10 minutes typically and can go up to 90 minutes. I wear an Apple Watch which would (hopefully) let me know if I had an arrhythmia. I also check my heart rate when I'm having a panic attack (which sometimes doesn't help) and I try to see if it's consistently going up, or if with deep breathing I'm able to get it to go down. Lastly, I have the xanax, which usually fully kicks in within 10-15 minutes. My attacks have the shortness of breath, feeling like I can't catch my breath, rapid heart rate, tunnel vision, etc. I try to find a calm/quiet space to relax, listen to my Calm app, and if I'm lucky, lay down for a bit.
        • jdsfighter 7y ago
          The problem is that both heart attacks and panic attacks share a variety of symptoms and even just learning about certain symptoms of heart attacks (after our CFO died of one about a year back) has made those symptoms manifest during my panic attacks. The other thing that makes this difficult is that anxiety attacks, panic attacks, and heart attacks don't have consistent symptoms among all individuals. So it's really a crap shoot. I had a lot of cardiac work done, so I can pretty confidently say for the next decade or so, barring go through any drastic lifestyle changes, that my heart isn't going to go out on me. But I also found ways to mentally explain all the symptoms I was experiencing and deescalate myself. Problem: "My chest is hurting." | Question: "Am I hyperventilating?" Problem: "My jaw is hurting." | Question: "Am I clenching my teeth?" Problem: "I feel short of breath" | Question: "Can I force myself to do breathing exercises?"
    • n_u_l_l 7y ago
      Thank you for writing this. Last December I started getting some kind of weird 'fog' in my head. I didn't take it seriously when it first started and thought it would go away on its own. But instead it became worse and I got severely cognitively impaired. My speech got slow, I forgot basic words, I forgot names of people I knew, my logical thinking was impaired. It improved a little bit but I'm still incredibly cognitively impaired. I spent hours searching online, using complex search queries and APIs to gather a lot of info on other people that report the same symptoms. This wasn't because I felt anxious, but I just really wanted to continue with my life ASAP and my symptoms seemed very vague. The conclusion was that, besides some medical causes, people with the same symptoms usually had anxiety. Since I don't feel anxious or depressed and it appeared suddenly I still want to rule some medical causes out. But it is comforting to know that when all medical causes are ruled out, there is still a huge chance of it being just anxiety.
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      • milesvp 7y ago
        You may want to attempt to improve your sleep. Foggy head with reduced cognition and memory loss are pretty major symptoms of long term inadequate sleep. They’re very common symptoms that parents of young children complain about, and can have some very long recovery times. Personally it took almost 6 months to recover once my first child started sleeping through the night. All it takes is an hour a night deficit for an extended period of time to really impact mental acuity, but you might not notice because it’s almost enough on a daily basis, and by the time the cumulative effects show up, it’s not always obvious sleep is the culpret.
        • pratap103 7y ago
          I had a really rough month where my 2yo was jet lagged and waking up crying multiple times a night. After that I've had two months of anxiety on and off, this is really helpful. Have always suspected that sleep could have been the trigger but didn't realize that an hour a night could make such a huge difference. Cheers!
    • WhitneyLand 7y ago
      >>I had a variety of symptoms and none of them immediately seemed to shout "anxiety" to my physicians This is usually not true in most cases, it's actually something a good GP will explicitly consider by asking you the questions. Maybe it was not possible due to something about your example, but it's recognized all the time in similar cases. It's also a case for having a regular doctor in some form, because it's easier to recognize based on how well they know you.
      • jazoom 7y ago
        I'm a doctor. I can tell you that even if I think a middle aged man with chest pain has anxiety he's still getting a full cardiac workup. Even a 20yo woman with anxiety will get a cardiac workup. It doesn't sound like these doctors missed anything based on this story. It sounds like they were ruling out the stuff that'll kill you quickly.
        • WhitneyLand 7y ago
          I don't see where we are disagreeing? I'm not arguing against triage. GPs were mentioned - I'm simply stating that it's not uncommon that a patient comes to see a GP questions are asked to elicit the role of stress and anxiety in the situation as appropriate. This does not rule out other care or take precedence over it as you know.
          • jazoom 7y ago
            Reading your comment now I also don't see where we are disagreeing. Though, I didn't say we are disagreeing, and I don't see why we need to. Edit: Did you by any chance edit your comment? I swear the word "miss" was in there.
            • WhitneyLand 7y ago
              My mistake then in inferring that. I don't recall making such an edit, usually I would note a change in semantic meaning, I believe the primary error was inferring a contradiction. Thank you for clarifying.
  • skypanther 7y ago
    It describes my symptoms - anger, lashing out, sleep issues. Meds have helped enormously.
  • fizzledbits 7y ago
    Much the same experience here, including the difficulty with memory which I find to be the most insidious thing. What have you found helps it, if you don't mind me asking?
    • godid 7y ago
      Not the OP but I would describe my anxiety in identical terms. When I feel the doubt about past memories/decisions start to creep, I whip out my phone and make some brief notes (usually keep one document per trigger). I will just write a few bullet points detailing what facts I am sure of right now along with the reassurances I am telling myself in that moment. Then, next time it happens I open the same note, read my previous thoughts and relax into it knowing I’ve been here before. I suppose it’s just an anxiety journal, nothing novel, but it works for me. Over time as I accumulate more facts the effect sort of compounds and simply knowing I’ve got the notes is enough to push the anxiety away.
      • fizzledbits 7y ago
        Ah, I hadn’t thought of the journaling idea. I do try to start and end my day with brief/debrief note taking to create more continuity in my intentions and memory, but that doesn’t address other sources of anxiety in between. Thanks very much, grateful for your response.
    • deleted 7y ago
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  • mbuinl989 7y ago
    Infrasound can cause anxiety, a good source for this are wind turbines, but its naturally occurring in the wild anyway. Stags emit it to warn females and young of predator's without giving away the location of the stag as the sound hits the ground and spreads in all direction, like you see with bass frequencies. High pitched frequencies are very directional by contrast. Disney sound engineers discovered it in the US, when they slowed down the recording of an electrical device, all those in the sound lab went home not feeling very well at all, its a fascinating story of discovery. Diet can also cause anxiety, the renin angiotensin system can certainly increase anxiety, exercise will counter the effects of anxiety, which is less common today than 50 years ago.
  • nutjob2 7y ago
    Everyone is different I guess, but here's an example from my experience as someone with pretty bad GED. For whatever reason, I don't like crowded, enclosed spaces such as busy supermarkets. I don't feel fear and don't feel threatened by environment, but I do get irrationally irritated to the point of getting quite aggressive. After taking CBD for anxiety I found that I was much more relaxed and just ignored other people at the shops. I think it has a lot to do with gender roles, personality and even machismo and a question of which side of the fight or flight response you tend to fall.
    • wvh 7y ago
      I can relate to this fight/flight response in crowded spaces myself, and how my SO and I might have very similar feelings expressed in completely opposite ways. We tend to send one kind of reaction to the psychologist, and the other to jail (I guess it ties to self-harm versus potential harm to others). I think society and psychology define or at least frame certain words in a way they apply more to one gender, not unlike how traditional autism definitions tend to omit a lot of female autistic behaviour. Ironically enough, getting in touch with my aggression, doing lots of sports and being very fit makes me feel more relaxed and able to handle situations that would have made me "anxious" in my early 20's. I feel "masculinity" has been somewhat under attack for many years now and it might very well be that for many men embracing male aggression and drive so it can be incorporated into society in a useful manner or through positive outlets would be a much better solution than repressing male urges and demonising them. If the main party line for male problems is "get in touch with your female side" and pretending you're something you are not, I see that doing more harm than good for a lot of men. Allowing men (their natural impulse?) to feel strong, capable, in control and even aggressive might actually make them less violent in ways detrimental to society.
• monksy 7y ago
  That's because as men: We aren't allowed to be a worrier, anxious, etc. We're expected to be confident and assertive. If we aren't then we possibly suffer rejection in relationships and we get socially isolated.
  • deleted 7y ago
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  • mwfunk 7y ago
    I don’t think that’s true. Some women like extremely assertive guys, but most don’t. Acting super insecure is a turn off, but acting super confident isn’t a turn on. The “be more confident!” advice that most guys have heard really means, “don’t act super nervous and insecure, just be yourself, even if you think you’re boring.” And to all the guys thinking, “but if I’m just myself, nobody likes me.” Well, that’s probably not true (sounds insecure actually), but even if it is, that’s either a personal growth opportunity or a sign that they’ve been talking to the wrong women.
    • monksy 7y ago
      > super insecure is a turn off, That was part of what I meant when you become socially isolated as a result of it.
    • deogeo 7y ago
      > Some women like extremely assertive guys, but most don’t. [..] acting super confident isn’t a turn on. The post you replied to didn't use the "extremely" or "super" adjectives.
      • mwfunk 7y ago
        You're right, I misread it. I'm reading my own experiences into it, but those aren't everyone's experiences. I had what I felt was crippling social anxiety in my teens and 20s (I'm in my 40s now), or at least an extremely limited and lonely high comfort zone surrounded by an unlimited discomfort zone. I felt like my whole life had been filled with people always telling me to "just be more confident" or "be more outgoing", but what does that even mean? That's not actionable advice. It was especially annoying because it's so ambiguous and unactionable, but always seemed obvious to whoever was giving me the advice. One thing that helped me personally was realizing that in my case, "just be more confident" really meant not worrying about putting up a falsely confident front. Like, I always felt this pressure to appear confident and charming and however I wanted people to see me, but I never felt that way on the inside, especially around women I was attracted to or other people I wanted to impress. So if I didn't feel confident, the only thing I could do was at least attempt to appear confident. After all, that's what everyone kept telling me to do, or so I thought. Anyway, this pressure (probably rooted in a form of narcissism) that I subconsciously put on myself in the moment to be confident/charming/etc. was just overwhelming, to the point where it sometimes rendered me incapable of social interaction at all. It was like the part of my brain that was in the driver's seat during social interactions would just lock up sometimes and I wouldn't even know what to say. But even when it was working it was exhausting. In hindsight, this was the source of much of my social anxiety. It was like an ass-backwards subconscious instinct to play the role of the person I wanted other people to see me as. That's never going to work, it's like scripting and acting in a role in real time, a role that you don't understand well enough to write in the first place. I could never begin to get any better socially until I really truly internalized the fact that I didn't need to pretend to be someone I wasn't when I presented myself to other people, and I should just try to be in the moment rather than anxiously observing my own behavior. But, that's probably pretty specific to me and may not even make sense to anyone else. Also my brain parsed "confident and assertive" into "extremely confident". When I think of someone who's consciously assertive, I think of a display of confidence for its own sake. Maybe that's not what they meant though.
• psweber 7y ago
  Many anxious men (and women) aren't suffering from an anxiety disorder. Their anxiety is a perfectly reasonable response to the life they are living. I'm fine with therapy, meditation, and medication as long as they aren't used as tools to make it bearable to stay in a bad situation.
  • swamy_g 7y ago
    Well said. Anxiety is sometimes a signal that there's an underlying imbalance in your life. Just like you start tearing up when you feel sad. Crying isn't bad in that scenario. Anxiety works similarly. You gotta start asking yourself, why am I feeling anxious? Where could my life be out of balance?
    • rabidrat 7y ago
      What if the anxiety seems to come from a place of the entire human society being out of balance? I pretty much think if you're not feeling anxious, you're not paying attention.
      • dorchadas 7y ago
        You might like the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari. The premise of the book, from what I can remember, is a mix between yours and GP's comment. It's basically that things are being over-prescribed, such as depression if you haven't stopped grieving after a year from the death of a loved one, as well as it happening more because our basic human structures are crumbling (namely, community). I definitely want to do a reread of it and pursue some of his leads more.
        • jpernst 7y ago
          I'm glad somebody mentioned this book, I was just about to reply with it myself. I'd summarize the core premise as anxiety and depression, while some people are more naturally predisposed to them, aren't things that "just happen", and it's not your brain suddenly misfiring for no reason. Our culture has become increasingly individualized and isolated, in contrast to millions of years of evolutionary selection for tribal behavior in the great apes. Anxiety is a natural response to being separated from your tribe, since it increases your risk exposure to many things. It's not enough to just have colleagues or acquaintances, but people who actually know and care about you and will notice if you're missing or if something is wrong. A fantastic book. I borrowed it from the library, but I think I'm going to buy my own copy.
• ggm 7y ago
  Most sex differentiated medical stories which pop up in my feed tend to be about drug interactions in women being misunderstood because of the overtesting of males. That mental illness is mis-characterised in men, speaks to me of two things: 1) we haven't had a large enough war to produce the volume of war psychosis outcomes which correct for this and 2) women are tragically over-represented in all forms of mental illness profiles, which may relate to their real condition but also may relate to distortions in societal views of women and mental illness.
  • mjfl 7y ago
    3) We really don't know what mental illness is, outside of what makes people criminally violent.
    • ggm 7y ago
      Historically, the (entirely reasonable, given lack of basic equity in property rights, body integrity, voting, law) discontent women displayed in western society which now expresses politically as feminism, was written down to hysteria, depression or other mental illness and thus it (mental illness in women) was used as a mechanism of control. I would like to think this ended last century, but I am suspicious it lingers on. The medical profession advances at a snails pace, and it would not surprise me to find out that senior medical staff routinely apply mysogynistic models to womens health. I know politicians do, the evidence of this is abundant (reproductive rights)
    • wpietri 7y ago
      Honestly, we don't even know that it is, not in the same sense that we think of physical illness. There's a really good Philosophy Bites on how applying the conceptual model of physical illness to mental differences is problematic: https://philosophybites.com/2016/01/steven-hyman-on-categorising-mental-disorders.html https://philosophybites.com/2016/01/steven-hyman-on-categori... Just to be clear, I'm not saying that X is or is not real. It's more the point made by George Box: "All models are wrong; some models are useful." The traditional medical model has helped plenty of people when applied to mental issues. But it definitely made me think there are less wrong models still to come.
• SkyMarshal 7y ago
  I appreciate the TLDR in the subheading: "Instead of coming across as nervousness or worry, anxiety in men often appears as anger, muscle aches or alcohol use—leading many men to go undiagnosed" I wish all articles did that instead of burying the lede.
• dkarl 7y ago
  Anxiety is one of the emotions that I have to consciously think about how to express. I have to imagine what people look like in the movies when they're scared, and then I try to reproduce it. I can show many other emotions naturally, without thinking about it: happiness, anger, disgust. But fear I have to consciously simulate. (I suppose if I was in a bus going off the edge of a cliff or someone stuck a gun in my face, my repressive instincts would be overcome and I'd look terrified, but in normal situations it doesn't come out.) I think I've internalized the ability to hide it, to camouflage it as annoyance or boredom, so thoroughly that I have to layer a bad acting job over my lockdown of the natural expression. I didn't know this until I got in group therapy and realized that many of the other people in my group (the women, in fact) didn't register the fact that I was feeling a lot of anxiety, even though I talked about all the time. When I talked about it, they didn't see any reflection of it in my face or body language, so what I said didn't register. I could say that I was feeling anxious, I could tell them about situations where I was paralyzed with anxiety, and still the absence of the expression they expected outweighed what I was telling them. They even accused me of withholding and not being open about my feelings until I learned how to act it out for them. I had to fake it to be accepted as authentic; my words were not enough. This knowledge has proved to be very important to me. I realized that in many situations where I have mentioned my fear of something without expressing it physically, people have assumed I was lying. For example, when I talk about my fear of the financial consequences of a purchase, if I don't show fear, my wife may assume my fear is not real, and I'm making up an excuse because I want to spend the money on something else. Also, in situations where everybody else is feeling and expressing fear, if I don't consciously produce an expression of fear, I will come off as apathetic and detached. It's very, very frustrating. From a young age we learn we are punished for showing fear, conditioned to hide it, and then later we realize there are situations where we are punished for our inability to show it.
  • eric-hu 7y ago
    This really resonates with me. I'm often frustrated with a feeling that I'm saying things to people and yet still not feeling heard. This speaks a lot to what might be helpful.
  • mjlangiii 7y ago
• furyofantares 7y ago
  I’ve thought about this a bit. I don’t have anger issues but I have anxiety issues and I spent decades not understanding that I experienced anxiety. In my experience, the culture tells men to exhibit strength and show no weakness. What counts as strength/weakness has changed over time and varies depending on your social groups — it’s not just the stuff associated with typically masculine values, but it also shows up in coding skills, or parenting skills, or how much work one takes on in those or other domains without complaint. In Behave by Robert Sapolsky, it’s repeatedly observed that testosterone doesn’t necessarily amplify aggression, but it does drive status-seeking/maintaining behavior, where status is some set of collective values where one member can have more or less of it than another and be seen as above or below the other. To me, this maps very well to generalized sense of strength or weakness. So, in my opinion, men are both wired and trained by the culture to avoid admitting anxiety, to themselves and others, because it is a weakness.
  • plutonorm 7y ago
    Yup. I had a serious anxiety condition since childhood. But my parents were so disgusted by my fear that they made me dissociate from it. I went to doctors and said something is wrong, they asked, what? And I could not answer because I could no longer feel my fear. I went for 30 years without knowing my problem. Society has a serious attitude problem towards men and it is seriously damaging a huge number of people.
    • lazyasciiart 7y ago
      > Society has a serious attitude problem towards men and it is seriously damaging a huge number of people. As I understand it, this is what “toxic masculinity” is supposed to mean.
      • klipt 7y ago
        That just sounds like misandry. Society has an attitude problem with women in some respects too, but people just call it misogyny, not "toxic femininity" or whatever. Being consistent with terminology is sadly underrated.
• hanoz 7y ago
  Anxiousness, alertness to danger, and the imperative not to show it, is an essence of the male human condition surely?
  • phist_mcgee 7y ago
    What a really insightful comment. I had never thought of it from that perspective. I like to view culture as a layer on top of our instinct and natural proclivity for certain behaviours. Men's choice to exhibit or inhibit their anxiety probably would have dictated mating behaviour. No mate would choose another that visibly responded to fears that weren't real. So an adaption would be the redirection of that anxiety into violence or antisocial behaviours, which ironically, are more attractive to some mates, eg. the bad boy image. Fascinating stuff!
    • tachyonbeam 7y ago
      Evolutionary psychology says that women are looking for men who have the characteristics of a strong leader. That means assertiveness, calm, self-confidence, happiness, etc. If you look around, that seems to be very much true. I don't think women are necessarily paying that much attention to wealth, but it definitely seems like they are drawn to confident and charismatic men. Men on the other hand, don't seem to mind if a woman is shy or anxious. It puts you in a tough spot, as a male, because you want to be truthful and honest, express your feelings in a genuine way, but at the same time, there's that voice in your head, that strong societal pressure telling you that telling a woman that you are afraid, anxious or unsure might push her away. I've had a situation recently where a woman suggested that she wanted to sleep with me and came back to my place. We were both shy and nothing happened. She suggested that our being too shy was my fault, that I should have broken the ice and made her feel comfortable, and then she left. I kid you not. My self-esteem was shattered for a week afterwards. This kind of thing is hard to cope with. I think I obviously need to pick kinder women to go on dates with, but I understand why so many men are drawn to alcohol and drug use. It's because they feel society can't accept those feelings of inadequacy and anxiety that they have... And they're partially right. As a male, if you show weakness, you can lose social standing. I think attitudes are maturing and it's easier to be truthful and honest as a modern male, but it's still tough. The worst part is that it seems society generally does not give a shit about the struggles men go through. The popular narrative is all about oppression of women by men, and there isn't that much room for listening to the issues men face. I know that's how it feels to a lot of people. Anyways, just my two cents. To the men who struggle out there, you are not alone, and I hope that you can find good friends who are willing to listen to you.
• spaceprison 7y ago
  This is a great article. For years I didn't know how to handle anxiety so I handled it "like a man" which lead to a pretty decent drinking habit. Now that I've stopped drinking and being open about what's going on with me, my anxiety looks like traditional anxiety which was easy for my gp to help diagnose. Taking the leap to be open and get help was the best thing to happen to me in years.
  • dleslie 7y ago
    If I may be so bold as to inquire, what was your path to stop drinking? Do you find you replaced it with another coping mechanism?
    • ZitchDog 7y ago
      Not OP, but I had a similar experience. Getting to the root of things with CBT caused me to completely change my relationship with alcohol. At this point, heavy drinking has become a clear path to increasing my anxiety, and it’s easy to abstain.
      • szemet 7y ago
        Not OP, and kind of cliché (with the common corollaly to seek professional advice instead of internet wisdom), but: excercise - and for me it was more anxiety+smoking but less anxiety led to less drinking too(which I did not recognize as a problem at the time) I consciously used it as a replacement: when I was stressed and need of a cigarette, I told myself that I actually feel the miss of a good run - and for me running really helped somewhat, so it was enough to start a positive feedback loop. It is also good that both drinking and smoking makes excercising harder, which I tried to (and many times could) use as a fact against them ("if i now drink i wont be able to wake up early enough to go for a run", "if i smoke it will much harder to breath") And another internet wisdom cliché ;) regarding anxiety: stop drinking coffee (tea...)...
      • alien14 7y ago
        How did you practice CBT? Yourself? With a therapist? A workbook?
• whiddershins 7y ago
  A few years back I for the first time labeled something I was feeling as “anxiety.” It was liberating, really did change my life, I just had no idea that was what that feeling was called.
• BurningFrog 7y ago
  Let's spell out the subtext: In mental health, women are the default population.
• pratap103 7y ago
  Has anyone experienced their anxiety symptoms flare up after a strenuous workout? I know this seems fairly obvious, but I was just wondering if anyone else experiences this.
  • mackross 7y ago
    Yep
• jaequery 7y ago
  CBD is really working for me to curve anxiety. I’m surprised there not that many replies about it here yet.
• tluyben2 7y ago
  I sometimes suffer from bad and acute anxiety attacks: I carry xanax (with the md prescription so I can travel). It happens very rarely (few times per year) and only 1 max 2 pills is enough to kill it usually. Without pills it just keeps going and when it happens it is impossible to stop unless using alcohol but then it does not end soon; it can take a week or longer and the feeling drives you mad (if you do not know it, good for you; you would not wish it on your worst enemy). So I make sure I have 2-4 pills on me. There is no underlying cause that they can find or use to ‘fix it’, although I have a specific moment when it started (20 years ago). It used to be far worse (every 2 weeks taking 2-3 days) than it is now. I often notice someone behave a certain way (some kind of movements or suddenly being ill and having to stay home, especially when there is a stressor; it is usually that or a migraine, which also still has stigma (here?), like, just take an aspirin and get over it, by people who do not suffer from them (I do not anymore luckily)) or tell something specific that makes me wonder if they suffer from anxiety; when I talk with them it often is the case. That way I found out that many of my friends and acquaintances suffer from it even though they never told anyone or were not even sure what it was. A few months ago I was driving with someone from my village who I told someone next to me in the plane was vomiting all the trip; she said that maybe he has that weird feeling losing control she sometimes has which leads her to stay at home and grab a bottle. I told her to go to the doctor and ask about anxiety; they sent her to the mental health dep after some tests and gave her xanax and diazepam; she now is much happier as she can stop the attacks before they become full blown. She never knew that it was anxiety and she was afraid people (including the doctor, who usually is a guy who does not really believe in this stuff; he tried to give me soothing tea before I got a signed and translated doc from my Dutch ex doctor saying what I have) would find her a whining weak person. Of all people I know who suffer or suffered from it, including my wife and family members, noone got properly diagnosed because it seems there is a big stigma resting on this. Mostly people think they can just ‘man up’ and tell themselves it will be fine. That is often not how it works; once it really starts you just cannot stop it; no amount of meditation or positive thought or exercise helps. So you try to mask it (for yourself and others) in several ways. If you have anything; just go see a doctor; if it is anxiety, your life will improve massively if you get proper help. Edit: I don’t recognise the anger bit, but yes, without pills, drinking is the only thing that helps/calms down and it often makes it worse besides being unhealthy (especially as this can happen any hour, day or night, and downing a few beers at 6am is not quite, well... good, so definitely get pills and keep them on you; no drink needed ever again).
• air7 7y ago
  > When a man explodes in anger over something seemingly insignificant, he may appear like just a jerk. But he could be anxious. What's in a name... Its amazing the difference a title makes. Being "a jerk" is frowned upon, its "bad" and the jerk should know better. But when its "anxiety" its met with compassion and understanding. He needs help not a stern look. Why do we feel that the jerk has agency over his actions but the anxious man doesn't? If anything, I'd say it's the opposite: the poor titleless jerk has no option but to be like he is. The anxious one could seek treatment to reconfigure his behaviour. This whole arbitrary divide between agency and fatalism pops up again and again. See nature/nurture, gayness, crime (compare poor vs richer perpetrators), insanity, acts committed under influence of drug etc etc. It seems like society had to decide on the age old unanswerable question of free will, and it did, arbitrarily.
  • username90 7y ago
    It is the fundamental attribution error for the ingroup and the outgroup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
  • jjeaff 7y ago
    In one case, someone is being a jerk because they can't control their reactions due to their anxiety disorder. These people are likely remorseful for what they have said or done. A true jerk is someone who is being a jerk on purpose because they don't care about others. And they don't regret their actions because they think they are justified. Seems like an important distinction to me.
    • air7 7y ago
      The question then becomes: Does the "true jerk" have more control over his actions, or is he bound by his personality traits just as much as the "remorseful jerk"? Can we not say that the former can't control his reactions due to their "true jerk" disorder?
      • deathwarmedover 7y ago
• ptah 7y ago
  > “Aggression tends to be more socially acceptable to many men than anxiety.” Is this what is meant by 'toxic masculinity'
  • brazzy 7y ago
    Yes, definitely part of it.
• Ostinus 7y ago
  I can relate to this article. I didn't know how to handle anxiety so I handled it like a man, by drinking, fighting, screaming.
• yodsanklai 7y ago
  I'm an anxious person, but my anxiety just looks like regular anxiety. It led me to take sub-optimal decisions and overall made my life more difficult that what it could have been. I didn't know anxiety was a thing, and that it was "curable" until I was 25. At that time, my gf who just became MD noticed my issue and prescribed me benzodiazepines. They really helped. I know they have bad press as they can be abused, but in my case, I take them occasionally and I haven't noticed any side effect or addiction. I don't think anxiety can be cured but the symptoms can certainly be alleviated. It really helped me to understand that it was a condition, like headache, and that it was temporary and could be controlled to some extent. It's also interesting that while I'm still anxious, I'm not anxious for the same things anymore. I used to be paralyzed by the mere thought of giving a talk (esp. in English). I don't care as much anymore. Now it manifests itself in other occasions.
  • SJSque 7y ago
    For what it's worth: I know that writing is not the same as speaking, and of course I don't know how long it took you to compose that comment, but your English is excellent.
  • whenanother 7y ago
    common thread is to just deal with the symptoms. imo there is a pollutant in the environment causing this. or it is many pollutants. there are a lot of things considered a neurotoxin in the food supply. what if we took all the neurotoxins in our food supply and put the maximum allowable amount for each one and put it all in a cup and drank/ate it? what if we did this daily? what if we gave this to an infant? so instead of ceasing the consumption of these things we are focused on consuming “good” neurotoxins to counter act the effects of the “bad” neurotoxins?
  • alecst 7y ago
    I've had great success in treating my anxiety (and general health) with mind-body approaches (yoga, pranayama, qigong) but these take time and commitment that I expect most would not be willing to gamble with. I do think that in my case I'm approaching "cured" (albeit slowly.)
• black_puppydog 7y ago
  Am I the only one who feels that all the gender studies that keep being mocked ultimately have the potential (if executed properly yada yada...) to benefit cis men as much as anyone else?
  • black_puppydog 7y ago
    lol I'll take that as a "yes you're the only one". Oh well...
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• bradenb 7y ago
  This article helped me to realize I probably should be seeking help for anxiety. I always knew I had anxious tendencies, but I didn't ever think I was just "sucking it up" until I read this. I grew up being taught that drinking alcohol is a sin and drugs are evil and your body is sacred. Although I don't hold those beliefs myself I can't help but be manipulated by them. In actuality, I think I'm glad I was raised that way because I think I could very well have fallen into a hole of substance abuse. I've had to learn to cope with my anxiety in other ways. I tend to get very stoic and hyper-focused on problems that make me anxious. I try to use logic to find solutions or--more likely--to find a way to run away and avoid the problem. It hasn't always been easy on my marriage; fortunately I think my wife understands these emotions I have better than I do. I don't know if this is generally true, but for myself, I think the problem has gotten worse as my family has become more and more dependent on me to survive. My wife skipped getting an education to raise a family and as I make more and more each year and our lifestyle gets more and more comfortable then I feel this pressure building up to not fail. If my 18-year-old self could see me now he would be shocked. I'm totally risk-averse, far more introverted, and far more anxious. I don't think it's totally a bad thing, it keeps me and my family protected to a degree, but like everything in life it's a sacrifice. I sacrifice some unknown quality of life to keep what I have now. I find that sometimes I wish it would all come crashing down. That I would lose my job, lose my home, or worse. I think I fantasize about these possibilities sometimes because although they scare me I recognize that I might need an external force to change a life with too much momentum. To be clear, I'm pretty happy. I love my family, I have a decent job with fantastic coworkers, I make good money. I don't have suicidal thoughts, I'm not "healthy" but I don't abuse substances. That's all great, but somehow it isn't enough by itself. I'm just an anxious man I guess.
  • agent008t 7y ago
    Judging by this thread, this seems like the norm. (Social) media makes it seem like it isn't.
• Art9681 7y ago
  This one hits home. I have been arguing with my wife over stupid things that have been triggering my anger. Two weeks ago I ended up in the emergency room with a heart rate of 220. Got diagnosed with Supraventricular Tachycardia. I have continued having episodes and it is obvious to me that the trigger is anxiety. I worry a lot about too many things. Always thinking of worst case scenario. I have a cardiology appointment in a few hours and depending how that goes my next step is to see a doctor to get my anxiety under control. Hopeful it will stop my anger issues. Edit: I would also like to add that I think my anxiety and preparing for worst case scenario in everything I do has been a factor in my career success. I worry I will lose my "edge" if I change. Looking for advice on this.
  • ram_rar 7y ago
    I thought, I was the only one like that. Always, thinking of the worst case scenario and lowering down my expectations so that I never feel disappointed. I would love some help on this as well.
  • kbos87 7y ago
    I’ve been thinking about this a lot too. It seems like anxiety, paranoia, hyper vigilance, and obsessive behavior are unintentionally encouraged and rewarded in the workplace. At least most of the people who have risen quickly around me have some elements of this. I hope and wish there were another path to success, but I don’t see many counter-examples in my day to day.
  • TheLegace 7y ago
    I have found the Buddhist's have a neat trick to this. I think it boils down all of life is suffering, but suffering is just an illusion. When you start seeing reality that way, it becomes easier to detach emotionally from everything. It's not that you don't care, you obviously can. But the physiological stress responses like the one your describing can be neutralized by training the response system. If you have watched talks by Buddhist monks[1] they have described people who suffer from horrible neurological disorders that cause them feeling of pain almost like a chainsaw and the emotional response from that. But through meditation and other practices their heart rate and brain responses can be calmer than the average person. This is by no means easy it takes years of dedication of aligning your physiological systems with the mental one. But at the end of the day everything is just more or less chemicals and electrical impulses to various parts of the body. Knowing that is the ultimate freedom from that. There are usually lots of factors involve whether its fear, anxiety and the whole spectrum of "darkness" needs to be addressed at a deeper level. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fixvb3s25Uk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fixvb3s25Uk
• VBprogrammer 7y ago
  Question for fellow non-Americans. Is it just me or is anxiety rarely a condition someone would describe themselves as having? I only ever hear about it in relation to Americans. I'm sure the difference not physiological. Perhaps anxiety is just rolled under the more general heading of depression?
• shange 7y ago
  Toxic masculinity: "The concept of toxic masculinity is used in psychology and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity It's not the same as misandry. "Homophobia" sounds like it means "afraid of homosexuals" but that is incorrect. "Toxic masculinity" kind of sounds like it means "all masculinity is toxic" but that is incorrect. I am female, have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression, have been to therapy, and am interested in gender theory. These comments read like unguided group therapy mixed with fuzzy realization of the concept of toxic masculinity.
  • quacked 7y ago
    There are multiple definitions of "toxic masculinity" even in the Wikipedia article you linked. The intended meaning of the term seems to vary from user to user, which I think is one of the reasons people react defensively to it; they're all responding to the most frequent usage of "toxic masculinity" they've heard, which often don't match. From the Wiki: "In a psychoanalytic context, Terry Kupers describes toxic masculinity as 'the need to aggressively compete and dominate others'". Is a competitive sports match where both teams are engaged in a spirited attempt to compete and dominate others an example of toxic masculinity? Is it only toxic if the participants feel a 'need' pressured from the outside to participate? What if it's an internal need, and brings them joy? Would a woman needing to compete and dominate others be displaying toxic masculinity? Is competition itself masculine, or toxic? Is a kid who's excited to wake up early every day to play sports displaying "toxic" traits? Already the need for asterisks is present. Relevant, I think: The Motte & Bailey Argument https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-brick-in-the-motte/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-bri... (Edit: all of the questions I asked aren't meant to be prove the non-existence or non-impact of harmful male-standard behaviors; based on a carefully curated definition of "toxic masculinity", I am thoroughly opposed to it. My point is that upon hearing a single simple definition, all of these relevant questions can be immediately generated, and I doubt all the experts would answer them identically, which I think means there's something wrong with the definition as it stands.)