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Does anyone think we can solve this? Or is all hope gone? By now I’m at a point where I try to come up with a good explanation for my daughter once she’s old en

Does anyone think we can solve this? Or is all hope gone? By now I’m at a point where I try to come up with a good explanation for my daughter once she’s old enough about how/why we all didn’t give a shit about climate change “back then”

alfromspace 7y ago
I doubt we'll keep on trucking with the status quo until the planet is uninhabitable, but there will be pain.
gwbas1c 7y ago
> Does anyone think we can solve this? Or is all hope gone? Yes and yes. I see it as a manner of, even if "all hope is gone," we can still make it much, much, worse.
- lisper 7y ago
  I see it as: we can still fix this (or at least mitigate it), but we will (almost certainly) choose not to.
methehack 7y ago
I've scaled back my expectations. By now, I'm shooting for laws and books. I think the question is not so much about whether the human race will survive (though surely it will be smaller in number) but whether it will be recognizable at all (aka "civilized").
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Oh boy, alarmism at its finest. Crop yields are up anywhere from 50-100%. Livestock numbers are stable. Food supply is more than secure. Sea level rise, is fairly minimal at 3mm a year. Certainly not cause for doom and gloom. Certainly manageable. Basic needs of humanity are: food, water, and shelter. None of which is in danger or even remotely close to danger levels. The idea that the human race is any remote kind of danger is bogus.
  - methehack 7y ago
    Sigh. It's this kind of response that makes me convinced we deserve it.
    - bsaul 7y ago
      I have an intuition that « we deserve it », is the modern equivalent of « gods are punishing us for our sins », but in this case it’s nature. Not to judge whether we’re actually running to a catastrophy or not, but i can’t help think many people are somehow « happy » if we were, because they hate our current civilisation so much.
      - rabidrat 7y ago
        Gosh, I wonder if our current civilisation has earned its enemies? I mean the internet is cool and all, but our fantastic civilisation can't manage to use it to coordinate a meaningful response to the existential crisis of our era...that it's inducing itself, at an ever-accelerating rate. Capitalism has yielded a system that's accidentally optimizing for a dystopia of impersonal fractious hate, surveillance, psychic manipulation, and social isolation. So I think many people would be quite happy to see this system dismantled. Unfortunately I fear that the subsequent system is going to be even worse :/
      - methehack 7y ago
        "we deserve it" is a moral condemnation of our collective failure and its causes, not a statement of hatred. I think our civilization is fantastic, bracketing perhaps the last 3 or so years. It may not last the night, but it gives a lovely light.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      Sigh, it's this kind of response that makes me convinced you have no arguments to the contrary. Rice yields are up 40% since 1988: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl... Corn's up 60%: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyld.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... Wheat is up 48% since '88: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.... Cattle inventory looks steady: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Cattle/inv.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Cattle/inv.php
sovnade 7y ago
We're pretty much banking on technology that doesn't exist yet. Global-scale air scrubbers to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, etc. Why didn't we give a shit? Politics and money, same as anything.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  Your cynicism is underinformed, learn what people are doing, and help them (https://climateaction.tech/ https://climateaction.tech/, et al) We == "they" + "me". If you you feel that way, then say "I don't give a shit". Because you don't speak for anyone else, really. This will have a positive effect on your thinking about the issue.
- jtx22 7y ago
  Considering the rate at which new technology is coming into being, banking on such new technology to scrub away the CO2 from the atmosphere isn't a bad idea.
planck01 7y ago
We could if we really wanted to and would pay for it. But we don't and probably won't. Too much disconnect between action and eventual long term consequence. Not enough global political support.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
throwaway5752 7y ago
That's the incorrect framing. There is no "fixing" this short term. But we can prevent a great deal of future damage by immediate, drastic action. Don't come up with excuses for your daughter, just simply start acting in a way where you do not have to make excuses.
- jonbronson 7y ago
  Personal action alone will be insufficient to stem the tide. Without shutting down fossil fuel development and use, we don't stand a chance.
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    Yes. And you control one of them directly, so focus on that. Focus your advocacy and votes on the other. This is one of those challenges that require doing more than two things at once. edit: Dr. Michael Mann agrees https://twitter.com/MichaelEMann/status/1160656713642631170 https://twitter.com/MichaelEMann/status/1160656713642631170
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - throwaway5752 7y ago
      I wrote this in response to a reply comment (since deleted). But I spent enough time that I wanted to post it: You can make massively meaning differences every day with minor personal decisions. If everyone in the US did them it would have a significant global impact. 1. Replace all bulbs with LEDs. 2. Set your AC warmer at home, in the thermostat in your hotel rooms, and anywhere else you can 3. Eat as little meat as you can 4. Replace your car with an EV or highly fuel efficient hybrid 5. Get the highest efficiency AC/Heater 6. Change vacation plans to avoid CO2 emission 7. Install Solar PV. 8 Lower your hot water temperature 9. Repair instead of replace 10. Up the R value of your insulation... You can make a huge dent (more than 50%) in your personal CO2 footprint. PARTICULARLY as a member of an industrialized society. You can make more impact than a dozen people in a developing country.
donaldknuth123 7y ago
After I read the 2014 IPCC Report in grad school I was pretty convinced that we have no hope of stopping it. We are almost surely going to pass 2 Degrees of atmospheric warming if not significantly more and this says nothing about warming in the ocean which will continue and persist for thousands of years as well as Ocean Acidification, the ramifications of which we can barely grasp but a dead ocean is not out of the realm of possibility. If you think 1M Migrants to Europe from the Middle East or a tens of thousands to the US form Central/South America is bad just wait until we have 100M+ climate refugees in the next century. Modern political systems simply cannot cope and imo will fail in favor of populism and fascism or worse. I feel bad for people who had kids in this generation because they will likely be adults in a world of starvation, suffering, pain and war.
deleted 7y ago
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sunshinelackof 7y ago
We can solve this, will we? No. Unless someone can convince the world's population to stop burning fossil fuels. The pain is already here for a lot of people and we're not doing anything about it.
Symmetry 7y ago
Putting it in black and white 'climate change' versus 'no climate change' is totally the wrong way to frame this. Every degree that the climate warms up is generally going to be worse than the last. The first half degree of warming we experienced from the start of the industrial revolution to the late 20th century was probably a net boon for humanity. The half degree from 1.5 to 2.0 C will flood many inhabited islands and displace hundreds of thousands of people. Past that you will eventually get to millions dying in heat waves. There's no way to prevent any global warming, because some has already happened. Realistically, we're probably going to see those small island nations flood. But we can still work to prevent things that are even worse and that's worth doing.
- deleted 7y ago
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kiliantics 7y ago
Rather than coming up with excuses for your daughter, you could be one of the people that is giving a shit and doing something. We look back with awe and pride at people who fought for what was right in the past. Why not let your daughter have some awe and pride for you/us? There is a lot to be done. Get angry and get active. Go out on the streets and cause a ruckus until those who have the power to change things have no choice but to do so. Anything less than this essentially amounts to "collaborating with the system" that is destroying the future. Be a part of "the resistance" to that system. https://globalclimatestrike.net/ https://globalclimatestrike.net/ https://rebellion.earth/ https://rebellion.earth/
LastZactionHero 7y ago
Might want to check out the 'My Climate Journey' podcast: https://www.myclimatejourney.co https://www.myclimatejourney.co Lots of great interviews with people working on climate.
- HerrBertling 7y ago
  Oh, thank you! Sounds great!
avip 7y ago
In order to ignite the required social shift we need global mobilization roughly the size of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism combined. So in theory if Christ, Muhammad and Buddha were all alive, and they could agree among them on the path, and people would listen - we could avoid catastrophe.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Thank you for underscoring the religiousness of this completely bogus alarmism. Are the basic needs of humanity: food, water, shelter, in any sort of decline at all? No. Crop yields are up, water is a constant, and we're not going to run out of concrete and wood to build shelter.
  - avip 7y ago
    Yes
  - egypturnash 7y ago
    Other basic needs include * dry land to live on * air that is cool enough for sweating to work to cool you off so you don’t die of heatstroke (< 100-140f, depending on humidity - high humidity lowers the threshold) * oxygen to breathe This year’s been seeing record high temperatures all summer. And scarily early melt cycles in the icecap. And the world’s major forests keep on getting cut down faster and faster.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      On points: 1) There's insignificant differences in total land mass on the planet in the past few hundred years. I'm not sure what you're suggesting there. Sea levels have varied by dozens to hundreds of feet in the past. Life went on. 2) There are absolutely no scenarios where heat accelerates to 140F. The planet had CO2 PPM in the thousands for hundreds of millions of years. (of course, the CO2 in those years, was caused by volcanic activity) Still, life went on. https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-dioxide.html https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-d... http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1... 3) Oxygen levels have not changed significantly. What kind of statement is that? O2 outnumbers CO2 by orders of magnitude in the Earth's atmosphere (21% of the atmosphere is O2, CO2 is way <1%). Record highs in Europe are local record highs (from the past century), not global all time highs. Russia, for example, experienced record all time lows during the same time Europe was getting hit by its heat wave: https://electroverse.net/all-time-record-low-temperatures-tumble-in-northwest-russia/ https://electroverse.net/all-time-record-low-temperatures-tu...
itamarst 7y ago
If we all say "we're doomed, there's nothing to do but think of excuses" then we're _definitely_ doomed. (We might be doomed regardless, but who knows?). So instead of worrying about whether it's a lost cause, you can start doing something. 1. In US, at least, local government has quite a lot of power over transportation policy and zoning, both of which have a large impact on carbon emissions. Impacting local government is a lot easier than national government, and eventually it percolates upwards. There are local groups pushing for moving away from cars, and for switching to green energy, and for better building codes (e.g. requiring net zero). Join them. 2. Support politicians who support doing something (local or national) with money and time. 3. Support activists organizations who are trying to shift things (e.g. Sunshine Movement in the US) with money and time. Don't have time? You can negotiate a 4-day workweek (https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/25/4-day-workweek-easy-way/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/25/4-day-workweek-easy-...).
- skybrian 7y ago
  It seems like it depends what you mean by "doomed". Suppose a volcano erupts and lava is flowing towards your town. You can try to stop it or get out of the way. To an individual person, climate change is like a lava flow. Going at it with a shovel isn't going to do a whole lot. Something larger scale is needed. So, as you say, we can get involved in politics and try to get the really big scale changes going. But, for individuals, I think figuring out how to get out of the way is more practical. I wouldn't invest in Florida real estate. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/07/extreme-heat-to-affect-millions-of-americans/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/07/extre...
baron_harkonnen 7y ago
The "fix" is easy. Immediately cease all usage of hydrocarbons. Oh, that's completely ridiculous? Okay fine, then we need to immediately scale back our use and come up with a plan to reach zero as soon as possible. Oh, we're going to use more hydro carbons next year than this year? and we use more this year than the last even though we knew we were in trouble? The real question now is when do we realize how deeply in trouble we are and when does the panic set it and what will happen when that does. I look around my office and I see thousands of people working hard to ship more stuff around the planet while posting signs about reusing cups to save the environment! Talk about climate denial! I see active real estate projects building million dollar condos in areas that will be destroyed in the next decade by increased damages from storm surges. We haven't even start to feel the impact of climate on food supply. Once people realize how much trouble we're in that will be a consequence all it's own.
snarf21 7y ago
It really depends on what you mean by "solve this". Can we prevent a horrendous catastrophe of our air, water, food and energy systems? Absolutely not. Is all of humanity going to die? Absolutely not. A lot of people will probably die and they will be (largely) poor. The Earth will recover given time and a much lower and sustainable population. I think you need to decide your own moral stance. Do you want to say you did your part even if others didn't or do you want to say it was hopeless and we just had to let it play out? Only you can answer what feels sufficient.
- deleted 7y ago
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carapace 7y ago
We have all the technology we need: Applied ecology for food systems, "Food forest" is a search term to try... "Greening the Desert" Geoff Lawton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69kRsC_CgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69kRsC_CgQ https://permies.com/wiki/2584/Greening-Desert-updates-Geoff-Lawton https://permies.com/wiki/2584/Greening-Desert-updates-Geoff-... Converts salt desert to productive ecologically harmonious fig trees etc. in two years. Here's a talk "Redesigning Civilization with Permaculture" by Toby Hemenway (RIP) where he talks about how we got into this mess and how we might get out. http://tobyhemenway.com/videos/redesigning-civilization-with-permaculture/ http://tobyhemenway.com/videos/redesigning-civilization-with... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b7zJ-hx_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b7zJ-hx_c Integrated carbon-neutral fuel production: http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518 http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518 And it's fun! I have no idea why people are not more keen. I think it's psychological or spiritual. - - - - People are talking about what to do at high levels. We might see e.g. Bangladesh unilaterally geoengineering the weather: https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geopolitics-in-a-hotter-world-ubc-talk-transcribed-sept-2010/ https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geo... - - - - Personally, I think our problems are spiritual in nature. Like avip said in a sib comment, it will take a global mobilization. In any event, the limiting factor is not technology.
chr1 7y ago
We can solve this if we focus on what we want to achieve: 1) We want to prevent heat waves of 40+ C, hurricanes, droughts, very cold winters etc 2) We want to prevent antarctic ice sheets from melting and increasing the sea level 3) We want to prevent CO2 reaching 700ppm when it can start to cause serious problems with ocean acidification. Only way to achieve this is to develop technology that would allow to control the weather, because if we can restore the deserts to moderately green state, their biosphere would consume all of the CO2 that we have released so far. A very promising way to build weather controlling machine is building large number of autonomous hot air balloons, which by controlling their reflexivity can either heat up the air above clouds or act as artificial clouds by reflecting some of the sunlight. But unfortunately we are not even looking for solutions like this, all the suggestions about geoengineering are dismissed out of hand, activists try to block experiments like the recent one form harvard, and proposed solutions end up as some combination of not eating meat, not flying, not having children, adding high co2 taxes, or subsidising renewables that are not profitable on their own.
e12e 7y ago
I encourage everyone to have a look at the extinction rebellion movement - it focuses on acceptance first (this is a global crisis) and then calls for local organized action on an interconnected global scale. Most importantly for me, there's a focus on working together, to move towards a sustainable environment. And not an empty focus on individual action. We need to come together to enable better infrastructure (eg: many parts of the US its very difficult to live without a car - and that's something that needs community and local government to come together and change. From free public transportation to better co location of work/school/shopoing/homes. Or: for increased local consumption we need incentives, and for more sustainable global logistics we need cooperation across borders). https://rebellion.earth/act-now/local-groups/ https://rebellion.earth/act-now/local-groups/

alfromspace 7y ago

I doubt we'll keep on trucking with the status quo until the planet is uninhabitable, but there will be pain.

gwbas1c 7y ago

> Does anyone think we can solve this? Or is all hope gone? Yes and yes. I see it as a manner of, even if "all hope is gone," we can still make it much, much, worse.

lisper 7y ago
I see it as: we can still fix this (or at least mitigate it), but we will (almost certainly) choose not to.

methehack 7y ago

I've scaled back my expectations. By now, I'm shooting for laws and books. I think the question is not so much about whether the human race will survive (though surely it will be smaller in number) but whether it will be recognizable at all (aka "civilized").

chrisco255 7y ago
Oh boy, alarmism at its finest. Crop yields are up anywhere from 50-100%. Livestock numbers are stable. Food supply is more than secure. Sea level rise, is fairly minimal at 3mm a year. Certainly not cause for doom and gloom. Certainly manageable. Basic needs of humanity are: food, water, and shelter. None of which is in danger or even remotely close to danger levels. The idea that the human race is any remote kind of danger is bogus.
- methehack 7y ago
  Sigh. It's this kind of response that makes me convinced we deserve it.
  - bsaul 7y ago
    I have an intuition that « we deserve it », is the modern equivalent of « gods are punishing us for our sins », but in this case it’s nature. Not to judge whether we’re actually running to a catastrophy or not, but i can’t help think many people are somehow « happy » if we were, because they hate our current civilisation so much.
    - rabidrat 7y ago
      Gosh, I wonder if our current civilisation has earned its enemies? I mean the internet is cool and all, but our fantastic civilisation can't manage to use it to coordinate a meaningful response to the existential crisis of our era...that it's inducing itself, at an ever-accelerating rate. Capitalism has yielded a system that's accidentally optimizing for a dystopia of impersonal fractious hate, surveillance, psychic manipulation, and social isolation. So I think many people would be quite happy to see this system dismantled. Unfortunately I fear that the subsequent system is going to be even worse :/
    - methehack 7y ago
      "we deserve it" is a moral condemnation of our collective failure and its causes, not a statement of hatred. I think our civilization is fantastic, bracketing perhaps the last 3 or so years. It may not last the night, but it gives a lovely light.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    Sigh, it's this kind of response that makes me convinced you have no arguments to the contrary. Rice yields are up 40% since 1988: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyld.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl... Corn's up 60%: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyld.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... Wheat is up 48% since '88: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.... Cattle inventory looks steady: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Cattle/inv.php https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Cattle/inv.php

sovnade 7y ago

We're pretty much banking on technology that doesn't exist yet. Global-scale air scrubbers to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, etc. Why didn't we give a shit? Politics and money, same as anything.

throwaway5752 7y ago
Your cynicism is underinformed, learn what people are doing, and help them (https://climateaction.tech/ https://climateaction.tech/, et al) We == "they" + "me". If you you feel that way, then say "I don't give a shit". Because you don't speak for anyone else, really. This will have a positive effect on your thinking about the issue.
jtx22 7y ago
Considering the rate at which new technology is coming into being, banking on such new technology to scrub away the CO2 from the atmosphere isn't a bad idea.

planck01 7y ago

We could if we really wanted to and would pay for it. But we don't and probably won't. Too much disconnect between action and eventual long term consequence. Not enough global political support.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

throwaway5752 7y ago

That's the incorrect framing. There is no "fixing" this short term. But we can prevent a great deal of future damage by immediate, drastic action. Don't come up with excuses for your daughter, just simply start acting in a way where you do not have to make excuses.

jonbronson 7y ago
Personal action alone will be insufficient to stem the tide. Without shutting down fossil fuel development and use, we don't stand a chance.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  Yes. And you control one of them directly, so focus on that. Focus your advocacy and votes on the other. This is one of those challenges that require doing more than two things at once. edit: Dr. Michael Mann agrees https://twitter.com/MichaelEMann/status/1160656713642631170 https://twitter.com/MichaelEMann/status/1160656713642631170
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    I wrote this in response to a reply comment (since deleted). But I spent enough time that I wanted to post it: You can make massively meaning differences every day with minor personal decisions. If everyone in the US did them it would have a significant global impact. 1. Replace all bulbs with LEDs. 2. Set your AC warmer at home, in the thermostat in your hotel rooms, and anywhere else you can 3. Eat as little meat as you can 4. Replace your car with an EV or highly fuel efficient hybrid 5. Get the highest efficiency AC/Heater 6. Change vacation plans to avoid CO2 emission 7. Install Solar PV. 8 Lower your hot water temperature 9. Repair instead of replace 10. Up the R value of your insulation... You can make a huge dent (more than 50%) in your personal CO2 footprint. PARTICULARLY as a member of an industrialized society. You can make more impact than a dozen people in a developing country.

donaldknuth123 7y ago

After I read the 2014 IPCC Report in grad school I was pretty convinced that we have no hope of stopping it. We are almost surely going to pass 2 Degrees of atmospheric warming if not significantly more and this says nothing about warming in the ocean which will continue and persist for thousands of years as well as Ocean Acidification, the ramifications of which we can barely grasp but a dead ocean is not out of the realm of possibility. If you think 1M Migrants to Europe from the Middle East or a tens of thousands to the US form Central/South America is bad just wait until we have 100M+ climate refugees in the next century. Modern political systems simply cannot cope and imo will fail in favor of populism and fascism or worse. I feel bad for people who had kids in this generation because they will likely be adults in a world of starvation, suffering, pain and war.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

sunshinelackof 7y ago

We can solve this, will we? No. Unless someone can convince the world's population to stop burning fossil fuels. The pain is already here for a lot of people and we're not doing anything about it.

Symmetry 7y ago

Putting it in black and white 'climate change' versus 'no climate change' is totally the wrong way to frame this. Every degree that the climate warms up is generally going to be worse than the last. The first half degree of warming we experienced from the start of the industrial revolution to the late 20th century was probably a net boon for humanity. The half degree from 1.5 to 2.0 C will flood many inhabited islands and displace hundreds of thousands of people. Past that you will eventually get to millions dying in heat waves. There's no way to prevent any global warming, because some has already happened. Realistically, we're probably going to see those small island nations flood. But we can still work to prevent things that are even worse and that's worth doing.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

kiliantics 7y ago

Rather than coming up with excuses for your daughter, you could be one of the people that is giving a shit and doing something. We look back with awe and pride at people who fought for what was right in the past. Why not let your daughter have some awe and pride for you/us? There is a lot to be done. Get angry and get active. Go out on the streets and cause a ruckus until those who have the power to change things have no choice but to do so. Anything less than this essentially amounts to "collaborating with the system" that is destroying the future. Be a part of "the resistance" to that system. https://globalclimatestrike.net/ https://globalclimatestrike.net/ https://rebellion.earth/ https://rebellion.earth/

LastZactionHero 7y ago

Might want to check out the 'My Climate Journey' podcast: https://www.myclimatejourney.co https://www.myclimatejourney.co Lots of great interviews with people working on climate.

HerrBertling 7y ago
Oh, thank you! Sounds great!

avip 7y ago

In order to ignite the required social shift we need global mobilization roughly the size of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism combined. So in theory if Christ, Muhammad and Buddha were all alive, and they could agree among them on the path, and people would listen - we could avoid catastrophe.

chrisco255 7y ago
Thank you for underscoring the religiousness of this completely bogus alarmism. Are the basic needs of humanity: food, water, shelter, in any sort of decline at all? No. Crop yields are up, water is a constant, and we're not going to run out of concrete and wood to build shelter.
- avip 7y ago
  Yes
- egypturnash 7y ago
  Other basic needs include * dry land to live on * air that is cool enough for sweating to work to cool you off so you don’t die of heatstroke (< 100-140f, depending on humidity - high humidity lowers the threshold) * oxygen to breathe This year’s been seeing record high temperatures all summer. And scarily early melt cycles in the icecap. And the world’s major forests keep on getting cut down faster and faster.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    On points: 1) There's insignificant differences in total land mass on the planet in the past few hundred years. I'm not sure what you're suggesting there. Sea levels have varied by dozens to hundreds of feet in the past. Life went on. 2) There are absolutely no scenarios where heat accelerates to 140F. The planet had CO2 PPM in the thousands for hundreds of millions of years. (of course, the CO2 in those years, was caused by volcanic activity) Still, life went on. https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-dioxide.html https://www.livescience.com/44330-jurassic-dinosaur-carbon-d... http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1... 3) Oxygen levels have not changed significantly. What kind of statement is that? O2 outnumbers CO2 by orders of magnitude in the Earth's atmosphere (21% of the atmosphere is O2, CO2 is way <1%). Record highs in Europe are local record highs (from the past century), not global all time highs. Russia, for example, experienced record all time lows during the same time Europe was getting hit by its heat wave: https://electroverse.net/all-time-record-low-temperatures-tumble-in-northwest-russia/ https://electroverse.net/all-time-record-low-temperatures-tu...

itamarst 7y ago

If we all say "we're doomed, there's nothing to do but think of excuses" then we're _definitely_ doomed. (We might be doomed regardless, but who knows?). So instead of worrying about whether it's a lost cause, you can start doing something. 1. In US, at least, local government has quite a lot of power over transportation policy and zoning, both of which have a large impact on carbon emissions. Impacting local government is a lot easier than national government, and eventually it percolates upwards. There are local groups pushing for moving away from cars, and for switching to green energy, and for better building codes (e.g. requiring net zero). Join them. 2. Support politicians who support doing something (local or national) with money and time. 3. Support activists organizations who are trying to shift things (e.g. Sunshine Movement in the US) with money and time. Don't have time? You can negotiate a 4-day workweek (https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/25/4-day-workweek-easy-way/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2019/01/25/4-day-workweek-easy-...).

skybrian 7y ago
It seems like it depends what you mean by "doomed". Suppose a volcano erupts and lava is flowing towards your town. You can try to stop it or get out of the way. To an individual person, climate change is like a lava flow. Going at it with a shovel isn't going to do a whole lot. Something larger scale is needed. So, as you say, we can get involved in politics and try to get the really big scale changes going. But, for individuals, I think figuring out how to get out of the way is more practical. I wouldn't invest in Florida real estate. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/07/extreme-heat-to-affect-millions-of-americans/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/07/extre...

baron_harkonnen 7y ago

The "fix" is easy. Immediately cease all usage of hydrocarbons. Oh, that's completely ridiculous? Okay fine, then we need to immediately scale back our use and come up with a plan to reach zero as soon as possible. Oh, we're going to use more hydro carbons next year than this year? and we use more this year than the last even though we knew we were in trouble? The real question now is when do we realize how deeply in trouble we are and when does the panic set it and what will happen when that does. I look around my office and I see thousands of people working hard to ship more stuff around the planet while posting signs about reusing cups to save the environment! Talk about climate denial! I see active real estate projects building million dollar condos in areas that will be destroyed in the next decade by increased damages from storm surges. We haven't even start to feel the impact of climate on food supply. Once people realize how much trouble we're in that will be a consequence all it's own.

snarf21 7y ago

It really depends on what you mean by "solve this". Can we prevent a horrendous catastrophe of our air, water, food and energy systems? Absolutely not. Is all of humanity going to die? Absolutely not. A lot of people will probably die and they will be (largely) poor. The Earth will recover given time and a much lower and sustainable population. I think you need to decide your own moral stance. Do you want to say you did your part even if others didn't or do you want to say it was hopeless and we just had to let it play out? Only you can answer what feels sufficient.

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carapace 7y ago

We have all the technology we need: Applied ecology for food systems, "Food forest" is a search term to try... "Greening the Desert" Geoff Lawton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69kRsC_CgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69kRsC_CgQ https://permies.com/wiki/2584/Greening-Desert-updates-Geoff-Lawton https://permies.com/wiki/2584/Greening-Desert-updates-Geoff-... Converts salt desert to productive ecologically harmonious fig trees etc. in two years. Here's a talk "Redesigning Civilization with Permaculture" by Toby Hemenway (RIP) where he talks about how we got into this mess and how we might get out. http://tobyhemenway.com/videos/redesigning-civilization-with-permaculture/ http://tobyhemenway.com/videos/redesigning-civilization-with... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b7zJ-hx_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b7zJ-hx_c Integrated carbon-neutral fuel production: http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518 http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518 And it's fun! I have no idea why people are not more keen. I think it's psychological or spiritual. - - - - People are talking about what to do at high levels. We might see e.g. Bangladesh unilaterally geoengineering the weather: https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geopolitics-in-a-hotter-world-ubc-talk-transcribed-sept-2010/ https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geo... - - - - Personally, I think our problems are spiritual in nature. Like avip said in a sib comment, it will take a global mobilization. In any event, the limiting factor is not technology.

chr1 7y ago

We can solve this if we focus on what we want to achieve: 1) We want to prevent heat waves of 40+ C, hurricanes, droughts, very cold winters etc 2) We want to prevent antarctic ice sheets from melting and increasing the sea level 3) We want to prevent CO2 reaching 700ppm when it can start to cause serious problems with ocean acidification. Only way to achieve this is to develop technology that would allow to control the weather, because if we can restore the deserts to moderately green state, their biosphere would consume all of the CO2 that we have released so far. A very promising way to build weather controlling machine is building large number of autonomous hot air balloons, which by controlling their reflexivity can either heat up the air above clouds or act as artificial clouds by reflecting some of the sunlight. But unfortunately we are not even looking for solutions like this, all the suggestions about geoengineering are dismissed out of hand, activists try to block experiments like the recent one form harvard, and proposed solutions end up as some combination of not eating meat, not flying, not having children, adding high co2 taxes, or subsidising renewables that are not profitable on their own.

e12e 7y ago

I encourage everyone to have a look at the extinction rebellion movement - it focuses on acceptance first (this is a global crisis) and then calls for local organized action on an interconnected global scale. Most importantly for me, there's a focus on working together, to move towards a sustainable environment. And not an empty focus on individual action. We need to come together to enable better infrastructure (eg: many parts of the US its very difficult to live without a car - and that's something that needs community and local government to come together and change. From free public transportation to better co location of work/school/shopoing/homes. Or: for increased local consumption we need incentives, and for more sustainable global logistics we need cooperation across borders). https://rebellion.earth/act-now/local-groups/ https://rebellion.earth/act-now/local-groups/