4 ms·

Be careful about doing side projects on work time or with company resources. Some vindictive employers may use this against you.

by tcbawo 7y ago

daenz 7y ago
My first thoughts exactly. You've provided them with written and photo evidence of doing work for another company (your new venture) while being paid by them. IANAL, but I would be worried about IP claims for anything you built. Next time CYA
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 7y ago
  > For nearly 2 years I spent every night after work coding and designing it.
  - haasted 7y ago
    > I would sketch out game ideas and maps while pretending to take notes in the endless deluge of meetings... stand-ups... backlog grooming... weekly-syncs... retrospectives... and project kickoffs...
    - RobertRoberts 7y ago
      "I am careful. I worked with my company's IP department to get a clear. I had to sit with a company lawyer to explain my video game. Also they are COMPLETELY different industries. So they didn't care. It was the weirdest meeting that laywer had ever had at my company." --zukalous (the guy in question)
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        Those two blocks of statements are independent (doing a side project in your free time vs doing some of the work during working time).
        RobertRoberts 7y ago
        Just reporting what I found, I think the guy is on thin ice. If the company treats him well though, he will be fine.
        Topgamer7 7y ago
        If he sat down with the lawyers and discussed the IP, he's a step ahead of the guy working on a game project, and not having consulted the legal aspects.
        icedchai 7y ago
        "Thin ice"? I doubt it. As long as this has nothing to do with his employers business, he's probably fine. Remember even if he's technically in "violation", the company has to care enough to go after him. Most of the time it won't be worth it.
        ryandrake 7y ago
        It will matter when it matters. If he stumbles into making the next Minecraft, you better believe his former company will unleash the lawyers to at least get a cut or own the IP outright. If he ever seeks outside funding, investors will dig into IP ownership during due diligence and ask “when, precisely, did you start working on this?” Every large tech company I worked for has been crystal clear during orientation: they own everything I do... on my own time or on theirs, using my own equipment or theirs. There was no ambiguity. Maybe his former employee is more chill. Maybe they won’t go after him. Maybe it won’t be worth it. That’s a lot of maybes to hang your livelihood off of.
        icedchai 7y ago
        If he stumbles on to the next Minecraft, he'll have enough cash to keep those lawyers busy for years while he still makes a nice living. Odds are he won't and nobody cares.
        7y ago
    - coldtea 7y ago
      If the full-time indie game programming career doesn't work out, remember to clear this blog post before going job hunting again...
  - twinge 7y ago
    Doesn't matter if one does it on their own time and on their own equipment. It entirely* depends on any agreements one has with their employer. Moonlighting and intellectual property can get very sticky very quickly. *modulo applicable laws in your part of the world Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056
XJ0OYtjb 7y ago
Comments from the author on the subject: https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698922551 https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698922551 > I am careful. I worked with my company's IP department to get a clear. I had to sit with a company lawyer to explain my video game. > Also they are COMPLETELY different industries. So they didn't care. It was the weirdest meeting that laywer had ever had at my company.
- _chris_ 7y ago
  Great to hear he did his homework! Last I looked into this, AIUI, the default in the US is "everything the employee does the employee owns" (damn you wedding photographers!). So naturally, virtually every tech company contract will have a "work for hire" clause which says "never mind that, everything the employee does the company owns (on or off the clock, in the shower, whatever, it's all ours)". California adds an extra exception, which is "whatever the employee does (on their own time and equipment) that is 'unrelated to the company's business' is still the employee's." While that may safeguard my oil painting hobby, I'd always be nervous about any programming (game or otherwise) if I work for a tech company...
_Microft 7y ago
The creator of this cleared it with his old employer at least. [0]. It's a good advice in general though. [0] https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698923539 https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698923539
Pfhreak 7y ago
Amazon, in particular, has policies that restrict making games above and beyond their existing side project policies.
sebazzz 7y ago
Though my employer doesn't care, but I once accidentally used my employers file header on my files instead of my own file header. My employer then suspected I placed intellectual property online. That was a fun conversation but my manager shielded me from me fortunately and at the end it worked out fine. It was a fun exercise using git rebase though. The most ironic part is that I actually use well working ideas I tried in my own code in the code I write for a living.

Be careful about doing side projects on work time or with company resources. Some vindictive employers may use this against you.

by tcbawo 7y ago

Be careful about doing side projects on work time or with company resources. Some vindictive employers may use this against you.

daenz 7y ago

My first thoughts exactly. You've provided them with written and photo evidence of doing work for another company (your new venture) while being paid by them. IANAL, but I would be worried about IP claims for anything you built. Next time CYA

tqkxzugoaupvwqr 7y ago
> For nearly 2 years I spent every night after work coding and designing it.
- haasted 7y ago
  > I would sketch out game ideas and maps while pretending to take notes in the endless deluge of meetings... stand-ups... backlog grooming... weekly-syncs... retrospectives... and project kickoffs...
  - RobertRoberts 7y ago
    "I am careful. I worked with my company's IP department to get a clear. I had to sit with a company lawyer to explain my video game. Also they are COMPLETELY different industries. So they didn't care. It was the weirdest meeting that laywer had ever had at my company." --zukalous (the guy in question)
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      Those two blocks of statements are independent (doing a side project in your free time vs doing some of the work during working time).
      - RobertRoberts 7y ago
        Just reporting what I found, I think the guy is on thin ice. If the company treats him well though, he will be fine.
        Topgamer7 7y ago
        If he sat down with the lawyers and discussed the IP, he's a step ahead of the guy working on a game project, and not having consulted the legal aspects.
        icedchai 7y ago
        "Thin ice"? I doubt it. As long as this has nothing to do with his employers business, he's probably fine. Remember even if he's technically in "violation", the company has to care enough to go after him. Most of the time it won't be worth it.
        ryandrake 7y ago
        It will matter when it matters. If he stumbles into making the next Minecraft, you better believe his former company will unleash the lawyers to at least get a cut or own the IP outright. If he ever seeks outside funding, investors will dig into IP ownership during due diligence and ask “when, precisely, did you start working on this?” Every large tech company I worked for has been crystal clear during orientation: they own everything I do... on my own time or on theirs, using my own equipment or theirs. There was no ambiguity. Maybe his former employee is more chill. Maybe they won’t go after him. Maybe it won’t be worth it. That’s a lot of maybes to hang your livelihood off of.
        icedchai 7y ago
        If he stumbles on to the next Minecraft, he'll have enough cash to keep those lawyers busy for years while he still makes a nice living. Odds are he won't and nobody cares.
        7y ago
  - coldtea 7y ago
    If the full-time indie game programming career doesn't work out, remember to clear this blog post before going job hunting again...
- twinge 7y ago
  Doesn't matter if one does it on their own time and on their own equipment. It entirely* depends on any agreements one has with their employer. Moonlighting and intellectual property can get very sticky very quickly. *modulo applicable laws in your part of the world Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056

XJ0OYtjb 7y ago

Comments from the author on the subject: https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698922551 https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698922551 > I am careful. I worked with my company's IP department to get a clear. I had to sit with a company lawyer to explain my video game. > Also they are COMPLETELY different industries. So they didn't care. It was the weirdest meeting that laywer had ever had at my company.

_chris_ 7y ago
Great to hear he did his homework! Last I looked into this, AIUI, the default in the US is "everything the employee does the employee owns" (damn you wedding photographers!). So naturally, virtually every tech company contract will have a "work for hire" clause which says "never mind that, everything the employee does the company owns (on or off the clock, in the shower, whatever, it's all ours)". California adds an extra exception, which is "whatever the employee does (on their own time and equipment) that is 'unrelated to the company's business' is still the employee's." While that may safeguard my oil painting hobby, I'd always be nervous about any programming (game or otherwise) if I work for a tech company...

_Microft 7y ago

The creator of this cleared it with his old employer at least. [0]. It's a good advice in general though. [0] https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698923539 https://imgur.com/gallery/CVq5bO8/comment/1698923539

Pfhreak 7y ago

Amazon, in particular, has policies that restrict making games above and beyond their existing side project policies.

sebazzz 7y ago

Though my employer doesn't care, but I once accidentally used my employers file header on my files instead of my own file header. My employer then suspected I placed intellectual property online. That was a fun conversation but my manager shielded me from me fortunately and at the end it worked out fine. It was a fun exercise using git rebase though. The most ironic part is that I actually use well working ideas I tried in my own code in the code I write for a living.