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People these days have very little regard for anything outside their headspace. People don't care about others anymore. I kinda feel like schools need to litera

People these days have very little regard for anything outside their headspace. People don't care about others anymore. I kinda feel like schools need to literally start teaching the golden rule - because they're not getting it from mommy and daddy.

zwkrt 7y ago
At what point in history did the populace have empathy?
- turk73 7y ago
  Oh come on. Here in the US Midwest the examples are many. I pick up trash along the roads near my house. The past few years, corresponding to the huge influx of idiots from god only knows where, the amounts of litter I pick up has increased tenfold. It used to be just a few items after the winter thaw, not it's simply constant. I'm fine with immigration if the people coming in can understand OUR standards and come up to them. I'm not at all interested in living in 3rd World conditions.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  At the point when people were too poor to travel, too poor to communicate to a large audience, and too poor to buy trinkets that would harm the environment, such that the same lack of empathy had less impact. I think I saw an article here a couple months ago comparing the relative wealth of Jane Austen's 1813 bachelor "Mr. Darcy" with a modern millionaire, call him Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith can afford to hire contractors and laborers to work on his house for a home improvement project, or hire a caterer, DJ, and event planner to host a big party. But these are relatively significant events; each one of these companies he's hiring cost on the order of 1/10th his income. Mr. Darcy, on the other hand, makes 10,000 pounds a year from guaranteed investments, and can be expected to have dozens live-in servants on staff in his home, each earning just 25 pounds a year. Mr. Darcy can afford to travel, but the other 95% of his household cannot. Conversely, even Mr. Smith's son, working a minimum wage job, can (assuming he lives under Dad's roof) buy an old car and drive it on a big road trip on a teenage whim. Smith's mileage card means that he and his family can fly to another continent for a weekend for a quick vacation for a friend's wedding. Darcy can hire his carriage to take him to London, but an expedition to California or China would likely be a year-long endeavor; to go around the world in 80 days could not be done for any amount of money. His servants could maybe make a transatlantic trip in steerage of a sailing vessel, but they'd be buying one-way tickets with a significant fraction of their savings. Mr. Smith has a smartphone which contains communication and entertainment from as many sources as a human can possibly consume. He can tweet a message to millions before his morning coffee. Mr. Darcy may receive handwritten letters, or a newspaper, and has the money to publish a circular if he desires, but among his servants information travels mostly by word of mouth, even if most are able to read and write. Finally, Mr. Smith's trash service takes away a 96-gallon-rollaway cart full of plastic packaging each week. A tourist trap contains souvenirs at 500% markup that cost him pocket change. Mr. Darcy can buy handmade wooden, brass, or fabric trinkets to his heart's content, but each of his servants likely have a single chest of treasured belongings. Mr Darcy is described to have a fabulous array of beautiful clothing which represents incredible wealth, though Mr. Smith's wife made a donation of some old totes of clothes to Goodwill that would give the same wardrobe a run for its money. Technology and progress means that people have a much larger impact on each other and on the environment. Technology that makes travel, information sharing, or affecting one's environment easier and cheaper has an exponential effect that speeds the development of future tech for the same purposes, and we're rapidly climbing that curve. However, discernment and empathy need to climb in lock step, and while education is improving those cultural and societal improvements are happening through different processes at a different rate.
devoply 7y ago
All this is a metaphor for all of human civilization on earth at our time. The problem is much much bigger than these little anecdotes show. Corporations don't follow signs either, they are very much like incorporeal tourists on the planet.
penagwin 7y ago
The "golden rule" is definitely "taught" in elementary schools. How do you think teachers solve disputes among students? Our schools even had "social contracts" in the upper-elementary.
ceejayoz 7y ago
This "kids these days" stuff is a complaint that dates at least back to ancient Greece, and almost certainly into pre-writing days.
- scruple 7y ago
  They're not making a comment about "kids these days," though. They're making a comment about the kids who grew into being self-centered assholish adults.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Sure, and the point is that every older generation complains about an upsurge of this behavior in the younger generation. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-proof-that-people-have-always-complained-about-young-adults https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-proof-that-peo... > “We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.” - 1925 > “Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.” - 1938 > “They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.” - 4th Century BC
- rhacker 7y ago
  Even if the phrase dates back that far. Don't you think it's possible that if each generation has to say that, that it is simply getting worse and worse and worse? I'm also sure there have been generations where the phrase disappears - things get better. We're definitely in the getting worse territory.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > Don't you think it's possible that if each generation has to say that, that it is simply getting worse and worse and worse? No. Every generation says "babies are small"; it's not evidence that babies are getting smaller. We've got plenty of scientific evidence that brains continue to mature well into the 20s, and that things like good decision making are part of that development. > We're definitely in the getting worse territory. By what quantifiable metric are you able to make that claim?
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
This isn't new - people have been smearing their kids in honey and throwing them at bears as long as there have been national parks.
ryandrake 7y ago
People respond to incentives. Currently there are no negative consequences for bad behavior, so people behave badly. It’s pointless to put up a “keep off the grass” or “clean up your dog’s poo” sign if nobody enforces it. I used to live in kind of a touristy spot and there were signs everywhere telling people what not to do, but nobody cared. Police have more important work to do, and regular citizens are too timid and confrontation-averse to correct people’s behavior, so everything just gets disregarded.
ticmasta 7y ago
"very little regard for anything outside their headspace" thank you for articulating the behavior I continually see in my day-to-day. It's the little things: walking slowly 3 and 4 abreast on a sidewalk at a snail pace; suddenly stopping to take a selfie in the middle of a busy place; parking a bike/scooter/etc in the middle of a path; parents prioritizing their kid's experience like everyone else isn't even present (blocking / taking inordinately long time / hogging use)... It really seems like a lot of people fail to recognize they actually take up physical space in the world, and in doing so affect everyone around them. I really try to be aware of the impact my personal physical behaviors have on the greater world.
- robocat 7y ago
  I think most people continue to learn to be considerate as they age. I have also seen large changes once someone becomes a parent. I certainly remember some anti-social things I did after my teens that make me cringe now! Perhaps it could be measured if we can find an activity that affects others, and that doesn't change too drastically over time - maybe driving behaviour?
shados 7y ago
> People don't care about others anymore Which was inevitable. Rule enforcement (all kinds, not just the police) works on the premise that most people will be reasonable and follow the rules, or social pressure will handle it. But then you throw in "no one likes a snitch!", "This rule isn't enforced so why should I follow it?", "They're trying to enforce this rule I don't like, they have better things to do!", and you end up with a perfect storm: We shouldn't care about anything that won't get you in trouble, and you shouldn't get in trouble for anything. Push that to its limit and you get some extreme case of individualism. You mention schools, but schools are basically no longer allowed to enforce anything else they get sued by some entitled parent.
- misterprime 7y ago
  This explains why so few people use their blinkers when changing lanes, or when slowing in advance of an upcoming turn. Police, please!
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    I never understood this one. It doesn’t even take me any extra time to do it.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  It doesn’t help when those rules result in you getting a ticket for going through a red light 0.1s after it turned red. And not because you were driving, but because you let someone else borrow your car. Or you end up in some bureaucratic black hole where the law says you can go to either of these 2 agencies for a service, and both agencies (in)directly tell you to go to the other.
  - shados 7y ago
    Yup, that's part of the issue. Essentially we're in a world where we have rules, but how they are enforced, used, interpreted, is a huge judgement call. I mean, there's always going to need some level of interpretation, because those who author the rules aren't perfect. But the rules are frequently written with a heavy disconnect when it comes to said enforcement. So each and everyone of us is taught to start interpreting them in our own individual ways (and "us" includes the cops). That doesn't scale so hot at several hundreds million people+

zwkrt 7y ago

At what point in history did the populace have empathy?

turk73 7y ago
Oh come on. Here in the US Midwest the examples are many. I pick up trash along the roads near my house. The past few years, corresponding to the huge influx of idiots from god only knows where, the amounts of litter I pick up has increased tenfold. It used to be just a few items after the winter thaw, not it's simply constant. I'm fine with immigration if the people coming in can understand OUR standards and come up to them. I'm not at all interested in living in 3rd World conditions.
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
At the point when people were too poor to travel, too poor to communicate to a large audience, and too poor to buy trinkets that would harm the environment, such that the same lack of empathy had less impact. I think I saw an article here a couple months ago comparing the relative wealth of Jane Austen's 1813 bachelor "Mr. Darcy" with a modern millionaire, call him Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith can afford to hire contractors and laborers to work on his house for a home improvement project, or hire a caterer, DJ, and event planner to host a big party. But these are relatively significant events; each one of these companies he's hiring cost on the order of 1/10th his income. Mr. Darcy, on the other hand, makes 10,000 pounds a year from guaranteed investments, and can be expected to have dozens live-in servants on staff in his home, each earning just 25 pounds a year. Mr. Darcy can afford to travel, but the other 95% of his household cannot. Conversely, even Mr. Smith's son, working a minimum wage job, can (assuming he lives under Dad's roof) buy an old car and drive it on a big road trip on a teenage whim. Smith's mileage card means that he and his family can fly to another continent for a weekend for a quick vacation for a friend's wedding. Darcy can hire his carriage to take him to London, but an expedition to California or China would likely be a year-long endeavor; to go around the world in 80 days could not be done for any amount of money. His servants could maybe make a transatlantic trip in steerage of a sailing vessel, but they'd be buying one-way tickets with a significant fraction of their savings. Mr. Smith has a smartphone which contains communication and entertainment from as many sources as a human can possibly consume. He can tweet a message to millions before his morning coffee. Mr. Darcy may receive handwritten letters, or a newspaper, and has the money to publish a circular if he desires, but among his servants information travels mostly by word of mouth, even if most are able to read and write. Finally, Mr. Smith's trash service takes away a 96-gallon-rollaway cart full of plastic packaging each week. A tourist trap contains souvenirs at 500% markup that cost him pocket change. Mr. Darcy can buy handmade wooden, brass, or fabric trinkets to his heart's content, but each of his servants likely have a single chest of treasured belongings. Mr Darcy is described to have a fabulous array of beautiful clothing which represents incredible wealth, though Mr. Smith's wife made a donation of some old totes of clothes to Goodwill that would give the same wardrobe a run for its money. Technology and progress means that people have a much larger impact on each other and on the environment. Technology that makes travel, information sharing, or affecting one's environment easier and cheaper has an exponential effect that speeds the development of future tech for the same purposes, and we're rapidly climbing that curve. However, discernment and empathy need to climb in lock step, and while education is improving those cultural and societal improvements are happening through different processes at a different rate.

devoply 7y ago

All this is a metaphor for all of human civilization on earth at our time. The problem is much much bigger than these little anecdotes show. Corporations don't follow signs either, they are very much like incorporeal tourists on the planet.

penagwin 7y ago

The "golden rule" is definitely "taught" in elementary schools. How do you think teachers solve disputes among students? Our schools even had "social contracts" in the upper-elementary.

ceejayoz 7y ago

This "kids these days" stuff is a complaint that dates at least back to ancient Greece, and almost certainly into pre-writing days.

scruple 7y ago
They're not making a comment about "kids these days," though. They're making a comment about the kids who grew into being self-centered assholish adults.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Sure, and the point is that every older generation complains about an upsurge of this behavior in the younger generation. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-proof-that-people-have-always-complained-about-young-adults https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-proof-that-peo... > “We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.” - 1925 > “Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.” - 1938 > “They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.” - 4th Century BC
rhacker 7y ago
Even if the phrase dates back that far. Don't you think it's possible that if each generation has to say that, that it is simply getting worse and worse and worse? I'm also sure there have been generations where the phrase disappears - things get better. We're definitely in the getting worse territory.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > Don't you think it's possible that if each generation has to say that, that it is simply getting worse and worse and worse? No. Every generation says "babies are small"; it's not evidence that babies are getting smaller. We've got plenty of scientific evidence that brains continue to mature well into the 20s, and that things like good decision making are part of that development. > We're definitely in the getting worse territory. By what quantifiable metric are you able to make that claim?

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

This isn't new - people have been smearing their kids in honey and throwing them at bears as long as there have been national parks.

ryandrake 7y ago

People respond to incentives. Currently there are no negative consequences for bad behavior, so people behave badly. It’s pointless to put up a “keep off the grass” or “clean up your dog’s poo” sign if nobody enforces it. I used to live in kind of a touristy spot and there were signs everywhere telling people what not to do, but nobody cared. Police have more important work to do, and regular citizens are too timid and confrontation-averse to correct people’s behavior, so everything just gets disregarded.

ticmasta 7y ago

"very little regard for anything outside their headspace" thank you for articulating the behavior I continually see in my day-to-day. It's the little things: walking slowly 3 and 4 abreast on a sidewalk at a snail pace; suddenly stopping to take a selfie in the middle of a busy place; parking a bike/scooter/etc in the middle of a path; parents prioritizing their kid's experience like everyone else isn't even present (blocking / taking inordinately long time / hogging use)... It really seems like a lot of people fail to recognize they actually take up physical space in the world, and in doing so affect everyone around them. I really try to be aware of the impact my personal physical behaviors have on the greater world.

robocat 7y ago
I think most people continue to learn to be considerate as they age. I have also seen large changes once someone becomes a parent. I certainly remember some anti-social things I did after my teens that make me cringe now! Perhaps it could be measured if we can find an activity that affects others, and that doesn't change too drastically over time - maybe driving behaviour?

shados 7y ago

> People don't care about others anymore Which was inevitable. Rule enforcement (all kinds, not just the police) works on the premise that most people will be reasonable and follow the rules, or social pressure will handle it. But then you throw in "no one likes a snitch!", "This rule isn't enforced so why should I follow it?", "They're trying to enforce this rule I don't like, they have better things to do!", and you end up with a perfect storm: We shouldn't care about anything that won't get you in trouble, and you shouldn't get in trouble for anything. Push that to its limit and you get some extreme case of individualism. You mention schools, but schools are basically no longer allowed to enforce anything else they get sued by some entitled parent.

misterprime 7y ago
This explains why so few people use their blinkers when changing lanes, or when slowing in advance of an upcoming turn. Police, please!
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  I never understood this one. It doesn’t even take me any extra time to do it.
Scoundreller 7y ago
It doesn’t help when those rules result in you getting a ticket for going through a red light 0.1s after it turned red. And not because you were driving, but because you let someone else borrow your car. Or you end up in some bureaucratic black hole where the law says you can go to either of these 2 agencies for a service, and both agencies (in)directly tell you to go to the other.
- shados 7y ago
  Yup, that's part of the issue. Essentially we're in a world where we have rules, but how they are enforced, used, interpreted, is a huge judgement call. I mean, there's always going to need some level of interpretation, because those who author the rules aren't perfect. But the rules are frequently written with a heavy disconnect when it comes to said enforcement. So each and everyone of us is taught to start interpreting them in our own individual ways (and "us" includes the cops). That doesn't scale so hot at several hundreds million people+