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Returned home recently, saw a local park / nature preserve. There are signs everywhere telling people to stay on the trail. I have never seen so many people dis

Returned home recently, saw a local park / nature preserve. There are signs everywhere telling people to stay on the trail. I have never seen so many people disregard them in my life. When I was a kid, you would go to the educational programs at the park and they teach you about the history of the area, the ecosystem, and the amount of damage that people can do to the ecosystem. Lots of locals will go through this kind of thing. But now there are so many tourists, people stomping through meadows that grow back very slowly. Feeding wildlife. Etc. How do you educate people if they’re only visiting for three days out of their entire life?

mieseratte 7y ago
> How do you educate people if they’re only visiting for three days out of their entire life? Make them site through a brief permit course before they are allowed to hike. The Georgia state parks system requires this before one can hike certain trails, Tallulah Gorge[0] for instance. [0] - https://gastateparks.org/TallulahGorge https://gastateparks.org/TallulahGorge
paul7986 7y ago
You close the attractions down and or throw up a lengthy permit process. Here in PA too many stupid selfie drones were falling off the waterfalls of Glen Onko (straining/exhausting rescuers). It’s A great place to hike up alongside fairly huge waterfalls. It’s now shut down unfortunately. It was the 1st to 2nd most popular hike in PA.
- liability 7y ago
  > Glen Onko Oh goddammit, I went there when I was a young child and always wanted to go back but didn't know the name (and my parents forgot.) Now I finally learn the name and find out I can't go back..
  - robocat 7y ago
    You could get past the barrier!
    - liability 7y ago
      Yeah I think I'll just jump it tbh.
      - 18pfsmt 7y ago
        It's probably a good idea to evaluate the consequences. By all means, do not take the popular narrative at face-value, but it would probably be informative to investigate the details behind implementing the barriers. The full moon offers opportunities to minimize risk.
        robocat 7y ago
        Walking on the Franz Joseph glacier at night under a full moon is one of the most visually stunning things I have ever seen - very other-worldly. I definitely ignored the barrier and the signs, and it was definitely wildly unsafe to do it alone. It was well worth it even so e.g. glacial blue ice looks very different from snow.
  - paul7986 7y ago
    Its in Jim Thorpe, PA which is a cool town named after an Olympic athlete who never stepped foot in the town. His 2nd ex-wife snatched/sold and moved his cadaver to the town formerly known as East Manchauk (sp?). His sons who were in their 80s a few years ago tried to get the PA Supreme Court to move his body back to the rightful burial place (Oklahoma). Though without Glen Onko being open I won't be visiting Thorpe.
- georgecmu 7y ago
  According to the comments here [1], only a part of the trail is closed. [1] https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/pennsylvania/glen-onoko-falls-and-lehigh-gorge-overlook-trail https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/pennsylvania/glen-onoko-f...
  - paul7986 7y ago
    Ummm the best part hiking alongside and beneath the the falls and up to the top of each one is closed. Not worth going there anymore!
rhacker 7y ago
People these days have very little regard for anything outside their headspace. People don't care about others anymore. I kinda feel like schools need to literally start teaching the golden rule - because they're not getting it from mommy and daddy.
- zwkrt 7y ago
  At what point in history did the populace have empathy?
  - turk73 7y ago
    Oh come on. Here in the US Midwest the examples are many. I pick up trash along the roads near my house. The past few years, corresponding to the huge influx of idiots from god only knows where, the amounts of litter I pick up has increased tenfold. It used to be just a few items after the winter thaw, not it's simply constant. I'm fine with immigration if the people coming in can understand OUR standards and come up to them. I'm not at all interested in living in 3rd World conditions.
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    At the point when people were too poor to travel, too poor to communicate to a large audience, and too poor to buy trinkets that would harm the environment, such that the same lack of empathy had less impact. I think I saw an article here a couple months ago comparing the relative wealth of Jane Austen's 1813 bachelor "Mr. Darcy" with a modern millionaire, call him Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith can afford to hire contractors and laborers to work on his house for a home improvement project, or hire a caterer, DJ, and event planner to host a big party. But these are relatively significant events; each one of these companies he's hiring cost on the order of 1/10th his income. Mr. Darcy, on the other hand, makes 10,000 pounds a year from guaranteed investments, and can be expected to have dozens live-in servants on staff in his home, each earning just 25 pounds a year. Mr. Darcy can afford to travel, but the other 95% of his household cannot. Conversely, even Mr. Smith's son, working a minimum wage job, can (assuming he lives under Dad's roof) buy an old car and drive it on a big road trip on a teenage whim. Smith's mileage card means that he and his family can fly to another continent for a weekend for a quick vacation for a friend's wedding. Darcy can hire his carriage to take him to London, but an expedition to California or China would likely be a year-long endeavor; to go around the world in 80 days could not be done for any amount of money. His servants could maybe make a transatlantic trip in steerage of a sailing vessel, but they'd be buying one-way tickets with a significant fraction of their savings. Mr. Smith has a smartphone which contains communication and entertainment from as many sources as a human can possibly consume. He can tweet a message to millions before his morning coffee. Mr. Darcy may receive handwritten letters, or a newspaper, and has the money to publish a circular if he desires, but among his servants information travels mostly by word of mouth, even if most are able to read and write. Finally, Mr. Smith's trash service takes away a 96-gallon-rollaway cart full of plastic packaging each week. A tourist trap contains souvenirs at 500% markup that cost him pocket change. Mr. Darcy can buy handmade wooden, brass, or fabric trinkets to his heart's content, but each of his servants likely have a single chest of treasured belongings. Mr Darcy is described to have a fabulous array of beautiful clothing which represents incredible wealth, though Mr. Smith's wife made a donation of some old totes of clothes to Goodwill that would give the same wardrobe a run for its money. Technology and progress means that people have a much larger impact on each other and on the environment. Technology that makes travel, information sharing, or affecting one's environment easier and cheaper has an exponential effect that speeds the development of future tech for the same purposes, and we're rapidly climbing that curve. However, discernment and empathy need to climb in lock step, and while education is improving those cultural and societal improvements are happening through different processes at a different rate.
elliekelly 7y ago
> There are signs everywhere telling people to stay on the trail. I have never seen so many people disregard them in my life. When I went to the Falkland Islands the trails have clearly marked signs telling tourists not to leave the path under any circumstances because the area is covered in land mines. The signs had skull & crossbones on them and everything. It was very clear that leaving the path would risk life and limb. And in the hour or so I was on the trail I saw several people leave the path to take a closer picture of the penguins. The things people will do for the perfect Instagram photo are unbelievable.
- hiram112 7y ago
  I'm a little confused. Are theses landmines to keep people on the trail or are they left over from the war in the 80's? And if the latter, why the hell haven't they removed them yet? If it's the former, I'm impressed with their dedication to keeping the tourists on the marked path.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    Definitely from the war; and landmines can be difficult to find.
  - detritus 7y ago
    The Falklands are mostly boggy, mostly empty and the spread of mines mostly everywhere. There were efforts to clear mines after the war, but the nature of mines means that it's best to play safe in the [many] decades after. There's a reason people have tried to get mines banned - they're a pain in the ass.
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    > And if the latter, why the hell haven't they removed them yet? Apparently Argentina used plastic land mines (I believe they were new at the time) which are difficult to detect. After the war Argentina gave the British military a map of where they had placed the mines but because the mines had mostly been placed in sandy or swampy terrain many of them had shifted so they’re difficult to locate safely even with a map. This was maybe the most interesting part of visiting the Islands for me because it’s a very contentious topic among locals. Some want the mines removed (and I was told they are working on that with a specialized company from Africa but it’s apparently a slow, expensive and of course dangerous process). There has been at least one death in the removal process so a lot of the locals feel its better/safer to just leave the mines were they are and things are fine with the clearly marked signs that show which areas of the islands are off limits. Also, in case you were concerned for the safety of the penguins like me, they don’t weigh enough to trigger the mines so they walk over them all the time without issue.
justaguyhere 7y ago
Not just tourists, I've seen people who are very clean in their own homes, but absolutely terrible the moment they step outside (littering everywhere). At least some part of the population does it intentionally, since it is not "my home". Heavy fines might be a good start, since asking them politely doesn't seem to be working, as mentioned by other comments here
- yummypaint 7y ago
  I know it can create a bad vibe, but calling people out directly can work. I always do this when i see people throwing rocks off cliffs (people die from this all the time), and no one has openly opposed me. I made a kid cry once by scolding him a bout this. I hope he remembers.
yummypaint 7y ago
Writing tickets and issuing fines for such things is part of park ranger duties. Improving enforcement and visibility of enforcement nationwide might be able to shift the culture. Something you can do: call these people out. Calmly and deliberately explain that people around them are watching and judging them negatively, take pictures of them. Social enforcement of this kind is the most scalable.

mieseratte 7y ago

> How do you educate people if they’re only visiting for three days out of their entire life? Make them site through a brief permit course before they are allowed to hike. The Georgia state parks system requires this before one can hike certain trails, Tallulah Gorge[0] for instance. [0] - https://gastateparks.org/TallulahGorge https://gastateparks.org/TallulahGorge

paul7986 7y ago

You close the attractions down and or throw up a lengthy permit process. Here in PA too many stupid selfie drones were falling off the waterfalls of Glen Onko (straining/exhausting rescuers). It’s A great place to hike up alongside fairly huge waterfalls. It’s now shut down unfortunately. It was the 1st to 2nd most popular hike in PA.

liability 7y ago
> Glen Onko Oh goddammit, I went there when I was a young child and always wanted to go back but didn't know the name (and my parents forgot.) Now I finally learn the name and find out I can't go back..
- robocat 7y ago
  You could get past the barrier!
  - liability 7y ago
    Yeah I think I'll just jump it tbh.
    - 18pfsmt 7y ago
      It's probably a good idea to evaluate the consequences. By all means, do not take the popular narrative at face-value, but it would probably be informative to investigate the details behind implementing the barriers. The full moon offers opportunities to minimize risk.
      - robocat 7y ago
        Walking on the Franz Joseph glacier at night under a full moon is one of the most visually stunning things I have ever seen - very other-worldly. I definitely ignored the barrier and the signs, and it was definitely wildly unsafe to do it alone. It was well worth it even so e.g. glacial blue ice looks very different from snow.
- paul7986 7y ago
  Its in Jim Thorpe, PA which is a cool town named after an Olympic athlete who never stepped foot in the town. His 2nd ex-wife snatched/sold and moved his cadaver to the town formerly known as East Manchauk (sp?). His sons who were in their 80s a few years ago tried to get the PA Supreme Court to move his body back to the rightful burial place (Oklahoma). Though without Glen Onko being open I won't be visiting Thorpe.
georgecmu 7y ago
According to the comments here [1], only a part of the trail is closed. [1] https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/pennsylvania/glen-onoko-falls-and-lehigh-gorge-overlook-trail https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/pennsylvania/glen-onoko-f...
- paul7986 7y ago
  Ummm the best part hiking alongside and beneath the the falls and up to the top of each one is closed. Not worth going there anymore!

rhacker 7y ago

People these days have very little regard for anything outside their headspace. People don't care about others anymore. I kinda feel like schools need to literally start teaching the golden rule - because they're not getting it from mommy and daddy.

zwkrt 7y ago
At what point in history did the populace have empathy?
- turk73 7y ago
  Oh come on. Here in the US Midwest the examples are many. I pick up trash along the roads near my house. The past few years, corresponding to the huge influx of idiots from god only knows where, the amounts of litter I pick up has increased tenfold. It used to be just a few items after the winter thaw, not it's simply constant. I'm fine with immigration if the people coming in can understand OUR standards and come up to them. I'm not at all interested in living in 3rd World conditions.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  At the point when people were too poor to travel, too poor to communicate to a large audience, and too poor to buy trinkets that would harm the environment, such that the same lack of empathy had less impact. I think I saw an article here a couple months ago comparing the relative wealth of Jane Austen's 1813 bachelor "Mr. Darcy" with a modern millionaire, call him Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith can afford to hire contractors and laborers to work on his house for a home improvement project, or hire a caterer, DJ, and event planner to host a big party. But these are relatively significant events; each one of these companies he's hiring cost on the order of 1/10th his income. Mr. Darcy, on the other hand, makes 10,000 pounds a year from guaranteed investments, and can be expected to have dozens live-in servants on staff in his home, each earning just 25 pounds a year. Mr. Darcy can afford to travel, but the other 95% of his household cannot. Conversely, even Mr. Smith's son, working a minimum wage job, can (assuming he lives under Dad's roof) buy an old car and drive it on a big road trip on a teenage whim. Smith's mileage card means that he and his family can fly to another continent for a weekend for a quick vacation for a friend's wedding. Darcy can hire his carriage to take him to London, but an expedition to California or China would likely be a year-long endeavor; to go around the world in 80 days could not be done for any amount of money. His servants could maybe make a transatlantic trip in steerage of a sailing vessel, but they'd be buying one-way tickets with a significant fraction of their savings. Mr. Smith has a smartphone which contains communication and entertainment from as many sources as a human can possibly consume. He can tweet a message to millions before his morning coffee. Mr. Darcy may receive handwritten letters, or a newspaper, and has the money to publish a circular if he desires, but among his servants information travels mostly by word of mouth, even if most are able to read and write. Finally, Mr. Smith's trash service takes away a 96-gallon-rollaway cart full of plastic packaging each week. A tourist trap contains souvenirs at 500% markup that cost him pocket change. Mr. Darcy can buy handmade wooden, brass, or fabric trinkets to his heart's content, but each of his servants likely have a single chest of treasured belongings. Mr Darcy is described to have a fabulous array of beautiful clothing which represents incredible wealth, though Mr. Smith's wife made a donation of some old totes of clothes to Goodwill that would give the same wardrobe a run for its money. Technology and progress means that people have a much larger impact on each other and on the environment. Technology that makes travel, information sharing, or affecting one's environment easier and cheaper has an exponential effect that speeds the development of future tech for the same purposes, and we're rapidly climbing that curve. However, discernment and empathy need to climb in lock step, and while education is improving those cultural and societal improvements are happening through different processes at a different rate.

elliekelly 7y ago

> There are signs everywhere telling people to stay on the trail. I have never seen so many people disregard them in my life. When I went to the Falkland Islands the trails have clearly marked signs telling tourists not to leave the path under any circumstances because the area is covered in land mines. The signs had skull & crossbones on them and everything. It was very clear that leaving the path would risk life and limb. And in the hour or so I was on the trail I saw several people leave the path to take a closer picture of the penguins. The things people will do for the perfect Instagram photo are unbelievable.

hiram112 7y ago
I'm a little confused. Are theses landmines to keep people on the trail or are they left over from the war in the 80's? And if the latter, why the hell haven't they removed them yet? If it's the former, I'm impressed with their dedication to keeping the tourists on the marked path.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  Definitely from the war; and landmines can be difficult to find.
- detritus 7y ago
  The Falklands are mostly boggy, mostly empty and the spread of mines mostly everywhere. There were efforts to clear mines after the war, but the nature of mines means that it's best to play safe in the [many] decades after. There's a reason people have tried to get mines banned - they're a pain in the ass.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  > And if the latter, why the hell haven't they removed them yet? Apparently Argentina used plastic land mines (I believe they were new at the time) which are difficult to detect. After the war Argentina gave the British military a map of where they had placed the mines but because the mines had mostly been placed in sandy or swampy terrain many of them had shifted so they’re difficult to locate safely even with a map. This was maybe the most interesting part of visiting the Islands for me because it’s a very contentious topic among locals. Some want the mines removed (and I was told they are working on that with a specialized company from Africa but it’s apparently a slow, expensive and of course dangerous process). There has been at least one death in the removal process so a lot of the locals feel its better/safer to just leave the mines were they are and things are fine with the clearly marked signs that show which areas of the islands are off limits. Also, in case you were concerned for the safety of the penguins like me, they don’t weigh enough to trigger the mines so they walk over them all the time without issue.

justaguyhere 7y ago

Not just tourists, I've seen people who are very clean in their own homes, but absolutely terrible the moment they step outside (littering everywhere). At least some part of the population does it intentionally, since it is not "my home". Heavy fines might be a good start, since asking them politely doesn't seem to be working, as mentioned by other comments here

yummypaint 7y ago
I know it can create a bad vibe, but calling people out directly can work. I always do this when i see people throwing rocks off cliffs (people die from this all the time), and no one has openly opposed me. I made a kid cry once by scolding him a bout this. I hope he remembers.

yummypaint 7y ago

Writing tickets and issuing fines for such things is part of park ranger duties. Improving enforcement and visibility of enforcement nationwide might be able to shift the culture. Something you can do: call these people out. Calmly and deliberately explain that people around them are watching and judging them negatively, take pictures of them. Social enforcement of this kind is the most scalable.