7 ms·

How about passing laws which forbid tracking users like this and levying steep, business-ending fines against the companies who don't step in line?

kspacewalk2 7y ago
No problem. All your favourite online services are no longer free though, what a bummer. Will it be a lite, regular or premium Google maps subscription? How about Facebook Messenger?
- eckza 7y ago
  That sounds like heaven, honestly.
- true_religion 7y ago
  You don’t need detailed tracking to run ads. Newspapers did it in the time before the internet. What did occur, is that advertisers could not be sure of performance so placed more value on the prominence and reputation of the media source. National well reputed papers got the best deals, regardless of real world performance. It will lead to tight localization again, as advertisers can’t rely on Google just selecting the right people to display ads to, but would have to seek specific sites to advertise on. The world will be fine.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    This it could have the side effect of killing independent journalism startups. Big media is already too entrenched. These big newspaper websites do already sell ads directly too - DoubleClick can serve both Adsense (usually as a backup) as well as their own inventory.
    - Tronno 7y ago
      There are drawbacks to every option. Given the choice between a surveillance state and a propaganda state, I will always choose the latter - at least you get some agency over what media you consume and which statements you believe. Surveillance is forced on you, and invisibly at that.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    They actually have ways of tracking ad performance in newspapers. Remember the "mention this ad and get 10% discount" ads? There you go.
  - Mindwipe 7y ago
    > You don’t need detailed tracking to run ads. Newspapers did it in the time before the internet. Newspapers did it to some extent, and they were not competitive businesses against methods where tracking does exist. The reality is that newspapers are still very strong lobbyists, especially in newspapers, as they frequently sink politicians who don't toe their line with unrelated scandal or just plain fantasy. If Google pushes this they are likely to find legislation, particularly in the EU, mandating quite the opposite to what you want.
- Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
  I use OSM and IRC, so that's fine by me!
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    You also put your time where your mouth is and compete against one of those free services (Github) :-) I don't even use SourceHut (yet!) and I send you money because what you are doing is awesome (admittedly a tiny amount -- if anyone can convince Boris Johnson to walk away from Brexit, I'll be able to up that ;-) ).
- gwm83 7y ago
  I would absolutely pay for this but I don't even have the opportunity.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  I stopped using both of these BECAUSE of the ad network, years ago. A lite / regular / premium option, that I could trust to not also sell to the ad network (just because you pay doesn’t mean your info isn’t being sold...), would be a most welcome upgrade. Bonus: my friends and family become protected from this ad network too, which nets even better privacy for me (since analytics can know a lot about you just from the people you associate with).
- chillwaves 7y ago
  In your model I have a choice to opt out of tracking. Where is the downside?
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  If the lite subscriptions are comparable to the current content it'll be pennies per day, and only on days I actually use the service. That's acceptable. And then I can buy a 'regular' subscription for google products that comes with actual support? It's like a dream world.
- rimliu 7y ago
  Not a bummer, great.
- beefield 7y ago
  Sounds good. At the minimun these tracker giants should be regulated to offer the option to use their services as a paying customer without tracking.
- aflag 7y ago
  That'd be a dream coming true! But I'm sure it wouldn't be the end of "free", ad-ridden content.
  - jimktrains2 7y ago
    Ads aren't the problem. Tracking, malware, and other user-hostile activities are the problem.
    - aflag 7y ago
      I dislike both things for different reasons.
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  It's not as if Google maps is the only game in town. Really the only thing I use it for over openstreetmaps is business hours and transit directions, but there is no reason the later couldn't be done. I use osmand on my phone and have offline maps for everywhere I've been. Grabbing some gtfs files wouldn't be difficult. As for messenger, there will probably always be some "free" messaging service out there. Free in quotes as it'll come with phone, isp, or email subscriptions.
- tomjen3 7y ago
  Premium Google thank you, Facebook I will love to see emplode, Twitter will slowly die away and I will be able to go back to RSS feeds to peoples blogs. I already pay for newsblur.

kspacewalk2 7y ago

No problem. All your favourite online services are no longer free though, what a bummer. Will it be a lite, regular or premium Google maps subscription? How about Facebook Messenger?

eckza 7y ago
That sounds like heaven, honestly.
true_religion 7y ago
You don’t need detailed tracking to run ads. Newspapers did it in the time before the internet. What did occur, is that advertisers could not be sure of performance so placed more value on the prominence and reputation of the media source. National well reputed papers got the best deals, regardless of real world performance. It will lead to tight localization again, as advertisers can’t rely on Google just selecting the right people to display ads to, but would have to seek specific sites to advertise on. The world will be fine.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  This it could have the side effect of killing independent journalism startups. Big media is already too entrenched. These big newspaper websites do already sell ads directly too - DoubleClick can serve both Adsense (usually as a backup) as well as their own inventory.
  - Tronno 7y ago
    There are drawbacks to every option. Given the choice between a surveillance state and a propaganda state, I will always choose the latter - at least you get some agency over what media you consume and which statements you believe. Surveillance is forced on you, and invisibly at that.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  They actually have ways of tracking ad performance in newspapers. Remember the "mention this ad and get 10% discount" ads? There you go.
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  > You don’t need detailed tracking to run ads. Newspapers did it in the time before the internet. Newspapers did it to some extent, and they were not competitive businesses against methods where tracking does exist. The reality is that newspapers are still very strong lobbyists, especially in newspapers, as they frequently sink politicians who don't toe their line with unrelated scandal or just plain fantasy. If Google pushes this they are likely to find legislation, particularly in the EU, mandating quite the opposite to what you want.
Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
I use OSM and IRC, so that's fine by me!
- mikekchar 7y ago
  You also put your time where your mouth is and compete against one of those free services (Github) :-) I don't even use SourceHut (yet!) and I send you money because what you are doing is awesome (admittedly a tiny amount -- if anyone can convince Boris Johnson to walk away from Brexit, I'll be able to up that ;-) ).
gwm83 7y ago
I would absolutely pay for this but I don't even have the opportunity.
IggleSniggle 7y ago
I stopped using both of these BECAUSE of the ad network, years ago. A lite / regular / premium option, that I could trust to not also sell to the ad network (just because you pay doesn’t mean your info isn’t being sold...), would be a most welcome upgrade. Bonus: my friends and family become protected from this ad network too, which nets even better privacy for me (since analytics can know a lot about you just from the people you associate with).
chillwaves 7y ago
In your model I have a choice to opt out of tracking. Where is the downside?
Dylan16807 7y ago
If the lite subscriptions are comparable to the current content it'll be pennies per day, and only on days I actually use the service. That's acceptable. And then I can buy a 'regular' subscription for google products that comes with actual support? It's like a dream world.
rimliu 7y ago
Not a bummer, great.
beefield 7y ago
Sounds good. At the minimun these tracker giants should be regulated to offer the option to use their services as a paying customer without tracking.
aflag 7y ago
That'd be a dream coming true! But I'm sure it wouldn't be the end of "free", ad-ridden content.
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  Ads aren't the problem. Tracking, malware, and other user-hostile activities are the problem.
  - aflag 7y ago
    I dislike both things for different reasons.
jimktrains2 7y ago
It's not as if Google maps is the only game in town. Really the only thing I use it for over openstreetmaps is business hours and transit directions, but there is no reason the later couldn't be done. I use osmand on my phone and have offline maps for everywhere I've been. Grabbing some gtfs files wouldn't be difficult. As for messenger, there will probably always be some "free" messaging service out there. Free in quotes as it'll come with phone, isp, or email subscriptions.
tomjen3 7y ago
Premium Google thank you, Facebook I will love to see emplode, Twitter will slowly die away and I will be able to go back to RSS feeds to peoples blogs. I already pay for newsblur.