8 ms·

Uber Freezes Hiring of U.S. Tech Staff as It Seeks to Cut Costs

90 points by raiyu 7y ago

OrgNet 7y ago
the start of the end? nice. what a scummy company...
- dehrmann 7y ago
  It's complicated. They provide better service than incumbent taxi services, but they were only able to do that because Travis Kalanick build a culture that's not too concerned with legalities. And Lyft was only able to do it because Uber led the way. I'm not as concerned with how it's been devastating to medallion holders and the state of the gig economy. Bad government policy was responsible for those problems, Uber just took advantage of it.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    One of Uber's most impressive accomplishments was that they were able to generate sympathy in many circles for the incumbent cab companies. It took real ingenuity for them to get themselves painted as the bad guys given how, in most markets, essentially no one likes cabs. OK, people are fine with private cars and cabs in a few cities like London (mostly) but they're expensive. Uber and Lyft really are better experiences than random cabs most of the time but their culture still managed to turn off a lot of people who worry about such things.
    - sbarre 7y ago
      > Uber and Lyft really are better experiences than random cabs most of the time For the passenger yes, but not for the drivers, and they are people too.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        Yes they are although I'm pretty sure cab driver wasn't a great work experience for most either.
      - ViViDboarder 7y ago
        I know this is anecdotal, but I often ask this to drivers who used to drive for cabs. 9/10 they say they prefer Uber/Lyft because of their ability to set hours. Though, that was mostly a few years ago when a lot of the drivers came over. Lately I’ve heard a lot of complaints about their commission percentage, but fewer drivers who used to drive cabs, so I’m not sure how they feel in comparison.
- dehrmann 7y ago
  > the start of the end? Hiring freezes don't help morale, it makes for a stagnant mood, you miss out on new talent, and attrition leaves you with (typically) worse talent. It only really makes sense to juice the next quarter's numbers.
  - Irishsteve 7y ago
    You’d usually do these moves to increase employee churn a bit as well. 6 months from now it will probably pick up again
- drywater 7y ago
  They don’t seem that bad here in Eastern Europe. Many times Uber is a bit more expensive than classic taxis. But most important they provide a very good service compared to regulated taxis. To understand what we had here before think of the normal taxi companies as the mafia. All of this while the government and the police did nothing.
jsnider3 7y ago
It turns out that selling things for less than it costs is a bad business model.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  For those in charge, it probably worked great. VCs likely dumped their shares on the secondary market right before or after the IPO. (thus completing the "dump" portion of the traditional "pump and dump" scam.)
  - raiyu 7y ago
    With the number of board members resigning post IPO there is a high chance that many shares will be sold once the lock up expires. They wouldn't sell before the IPO as would depress the stock price significantly.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  The goal is to kill the competition through underpricing and then hike prices, right? Did the killing competition bit fail?
  - jsnider3 7y ago
    Lyft still exists. Also, it would be trivial for someone to just create their own taxi company if the prices get too high.
- ninedays 7y ago
  You should tell that to Jeff Bezos.
vadym909 7y ago
So almost $4B of their losses were were from stock costs to employees. All hell might break loose if the drivers ever found out how much Uber employees made/make!
- techntoke 7y ago
  I don't think so. Drivers are looking for short-term opportunities that are mildly rewarding. I think they already faced the reality that making $25,000 a year to drive around and get to meet and network with people is a better fit for them than a factory job or fast food work. I don't think this fits the profile for all of them, but I also don't think they compare their jobs to IT employees and would only be bothered by it if there was an opportunity to unionize behind it to see some benefit.
valleyjo 7y ago
Huh. I had a phone screen scheduled for next week. The recruiter emailed me to say they had some updates to share. I guess this is it...
goatinaboat 7y ago
Let’s be honest, Uber massively over hired in tech, either to create the illusion of being a tech company (to help raise VC), or because some within the company truly believed they were. They are no more a tech company than WeWork or Airbnb is. The company blog gives a clue to this, they seem to do an awful lot that is cool and fun and completely unrelated to regulatory arbitrage (or booking taxis). Uber could ditch anywhere between 50-90% of their techs tomorrow and it would not impact their operations one iota. Anyone working in tech there needs to polish up their resume and hope that the many scandals at Uber hasn’t tainted them too.
- ulfw 7y ago
  Not that I want to defend Uber. I do agree with you. Yet the same can be said about most large companies though. Even large "real" tech companies. Googles revenues wouldn't drop a bit for years if 50% of engineers were gone. That's just the reality of large enterprises.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    There is a lot of "make work" kind of project at some of these companies. Lets design a whole new logging infrastructure or database instead of adopting or improving something that already exists. Or lets overanalyze the the font that we use for our webpage or design a new font because we have a lot of VC money and nothing better to do.
    - walshemj 7y ago
      Redesigning a font and saving say 20% of its size is a worth while saving - you wont believe how much the average website is bloated by using fancy fonts.
    - r00fus 7y ago
      I see it as cargo-cult facade that they hope will attract the kind of engineers that work for FAANGM.
  - dehrmann 7y ago
porker 7y ago
They could save a substantial amount of the salaries by offshoring their technical team. Even to the UK, where tech salaries top out around $100k.
- angarg12 7y ago
  Do they though? I've read about senior level offers from Uber in London paying about 160k£. Might help explain their current situation.
- tigershark 7y ago
  Definitely not true, you can get much more than that in London.
  - porker 7y ago
    In which verticals / with which tech stacks?
    - tigershark 7y ago
      No idea for tech firms.. But just as an example: https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/03/google-uk-staff-earn-230000-salary-average-2018 https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/03/google-uk...
- throwitaway2364 7y ago
  > the UK, where tech salaries top out around $100k. Citation needed. I work in a FAANG in London. I am a middle-performer in a non-senior position and not even a "real" software engineer (I code, but its not my main job responsibility) and I am £84K/$101K basic, £149K/$180k total-comp. If I were a proper engineer, I'd expect to get at least 15-20% more than that, and if I were promoted to a "senior" position I'd expect a similar 10-15% pay rise too. There is money to be had in London.
  - throwaway082729 7y ago
xxxpupugo 7y ago
Just the beginning of the ending of the round of tech boom we have seen. Overhiring might be a cause of it, but big companies overhiring isn't particular unique to Uber, and when they start to curb hiring, some fundamental correction of perception is probably under way.
- pm90 7y ago
  Uber is not a big company
  - jpeg_hero 7y ago
    22,000 workers not big?
  - xxxpupugo 7y ago
    This is a serious misconception.
fnord77 7y ago
Seems at their scale, they could operate their app/infrastructure by charing drivers 10% per ride or less and still rake in the money.
zed88 7y ago
Recession is in the air and the tech gravy train fueled by the VC culture stops here (Hopefully!).
n_ary 7y ago
tl;dr: 1. laid off 400 "marketing" staff(global) 2. hiring freeze in U.S.(& Canada) for engineering(software) & PMs, due to reaching hiring quota for this year 3. $5.24B net loss(biggest ever) 4. hiring continues for logistics, autonomous-car etc.. Interesting facts indeed. Why does Uber(& the likes) need to continue hiring engineers/PMs really? Unless they are opening new products every year, can't their existing engineering handle all of the existing products? Given how well they pay(heard info), am curious whether engineers still leave after a while, needing constant replacement every year? Am not demeaning anything, am really curious. I assumed places like Uber/ABNB/Lyft don't lose staff easily.
- walshemj 7y ago
  They do have to replace the churn, I haven't heard the Uber has radically different average tenure for engineering.
dinsjg3434 7y ago
Getting Bangalored

90 points by raiyu 7y ago

OrgNet 7y ago

the start of the end? nice. what a scummy company...

dehrmann 7y ago
It's complicated. They provide better service than incumbent taxi services, but they were only able to do that because Travis Kalanick build a culture that's not too concerned with legalities. And Lyft was only able to do it because Uber led the way. I'm not as concerned with how it's been devastating to medallion holders and the state of the gig economy. Bad government policy was responsible for those problems, Uber just took advantage of it.
- ghaff 7y ago
  One of Uber's most impressive accomplishments was that they were able to generate sympathy in many circles for the incumbent cab companies. It took real ingenuity for them to get themselves painted as the bad guys given how, in most markets, essentially no one likes cabs. OK, people are fine with private cars and cabs in a few cities like London (mostly) but they're expensive. Uber and Lyft really are better experiences than random cabs most of the time but their culture still managed to turn off a lot of people who worry about such things.
  - sbarre 7y ago
    > Uber and Lyft really are better experiences than random cabs most of the time For the passenger yes, but not for the drivers, and they are people too.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Yes they are although I'm pretty sure cab driver wasn't a great work experience for most either.
    - ViViDboarder 7y ago
      I know this is anecdotal, but I often ask this to drivers who used to drive for cabs. 9/10 they say they prefer Uber/Lyft because of their ability to set hours. Though, that was mostly a few years ago when a lot of the drivers came over. Lately I’ve heard a lot of complaints about their commission percentage, but fewer drivers who used to drive cabs, so I’m not sure how they feel in comparison.
dehrmann 7y ago
> the start of the end? Hiring freezes don't help morale, it makes for a stagnant mood, you miss out on new talent, and attrition leaves you with (typically) worse talent. It only really makes sense to juice the next quarter's numbers.
- Irishsteve 7y ago
  You’d usually do these moves to increase employee churn a bit as well. 6 months from now it will probably pick up again
drywater 7y ago
They don’t seem that bad here in Eastern Europe. Many times Uber is a bit more expensive than classic taxis. But most important they provide a very good service compared to regulated taxis. To understand what we had here before think of the normal taxi companies as the mafia. All of this while the government and the police did nothing.

jsnider3 7y ago

It turns out that selling things for less than it costs is a bad business model.

jjeaff 7y ago
For those in charge, it probably worked great. VCs likely dumped their shares on the secondary market right before or after the IPO. (thus completing the "dump" portion of the traditional "pump and dump" scam.)
- raiyu 7y ago
  With the number of board members resigning post IPO there is a high chance that many shares will be sold once the lock up expires. They wouldn't sell before the IPO as would depress the stock price significantly.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
The goal is to kill the competition through underpricing and then hike prices, right? Did the killing competition bit fail?
- jsnider3 7y ago
  Lyft still exists. Also, it would be trivial for someone to just create their own taxi company if the prices get too high.
ninedays 7y ago
You should tell that to Jeff Bezos.

vadym909 7y ago

So almost $4B of their losses were were from stock costs to employees. All hell might break loose if the drivers ever found out how much Uber employees made/make!

techntoke 7y ago
I don't think so. Drivers are looking for short-term opportunities that are mildly rewarding. I think they already faced the reality that making $25,000 a year to drive around and get to meet and network with people is a better fit for them than a factory job or fast food work. I don't think this fits the profile for all of them, but I also don't think they compare their jobs to IT employees and would only be bothered by it if there was an opportunity to unionize behind it to see some benefit.

valleyjo 7y ago

Huh. I had a phone screen scheduled for next week. The recruiter emailed me to say they had some updates to share. I guess this is it...

goatinaboat 7y ago

Let’s be honest, Uber massively over hired in tech, either to create the illusion of being a tech company (to help raise VC), or because some within the company truly believed they were. They are no more a tech company than WeWork or Airbnb is. The company blog gives a clue to this, they seem to do an awful lot that is cool and fun and completely unrelated to regulatory arbitrage (or booking taxis). Uber could ditch anywhere between 50-90% of their techs tomorrow and it would not impact their operations one iota. Anyone working in tech there needs to polish up their resume and hope that the many scandals at Uber hasn’t tainted them too.

ulfw 7y ago
Not that I want to defend Uber. I do agree with you. Yet the same can be said about most large companies though. Even large "real" tech companies. Googles revenues wouldn't drop a bit for years if 50% of engineers were gone. That's just the reality of large enterprises.
- pkaye 7y ago
  There is a lot of "make work" kind of project at some of these companies. Lets design a whole new logging infrastructure or database instead of adopting or improving something that already exists. Or lets overanalyze the the font that we use for our webpage or design a new font because we have a lot of VC money and nothing better to do.
  - walshemj 7y ago
    Redesigning a font and saving say 20% of its size is a worth while saving - you wont believe how much the average website is bloated by using fancy fonts.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    I see it as cargo-cult facade that they hope will attract the kind of engineers that work for FAANGM.
- dehrmann 7y ago

porker 7y ago

They could save a substantial amount of the salaries by offshoring their technical team. Even to the UK, where tech salaries top out around $100k.

angarg12 7y ago
Do they though? I've read about senior level offers from Uber in London paying about 160k£. Might help explain their current situation.
tigershark 7y ago
Definitely not true, you can get much more than that in London.
- porker 7y ago
  In which verticals / with which tech stacks?
  - tigershark 7y ago
    No idea for tech firms.. But just as an example: https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/03/google-uk-staff-earn-230000-salary-average-2018 https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/03/google-uk...
throwitaway2364 7y ago
> the UK, where tech salaries top out around $100k. Citation needed. I work in a FAANG in London. I am a middle-performer in a non-senior position and not even a "real" software engineer (I code, but its not my main job responsibility) and I am £84K/$101K basic, £149K/$180k total-comp. If I were a proper engineer, I'd expect to get at least 15-20% more than that, and if I were promoted to a "senior" position I'd expect a similar 10-15% pay rise too. There is money to be had in London.
- throwaway082729 7y ago

xxxpupugo 7y ago

Just the beginning of the ending of the round of tech boom we have seen. Overhiring might be a cause of it, but big companies overhiring isn't particular unique to Uber, and when they start to curb hiring, some fundamental correction of perception is probably under way.

pm90 7y ago
Uber is not a big company
- jpeg_hero 7y ago
  22,000 workers not big?
- xxxpupugo 7y ago
  This is a serious misconception.

fnord77 7y ago

Seems at their scale, they could operate their app/infrastructure by charing drivers 10% per ride or less and still rake in the money.

zed88 7y ago

Recession is in the air and the tech gravy train fueled by the VC culture stops here (Hopefully!).

n_ary 7y ago

tl;dr: 1. laid off 400 "marketing" staff(global) 2. hiring freeze in U.S.(& Canada) for engineering(software) & PMs, due to reaching hiring quota for this year 3. $5.24B net loss(biggest ever) 4. hiring continues for logistics, autonomous-car etc.. Interesting facts indeed. Why does Uber(& the likes) need to continue hiring engineers/PMs really? Unless they are opening new products every year, can't their existing engineering handle all of the existing products? Given how well they pay(heard info), am curious whether engineers still leave after a while, needing constant replacement every year? Am not demeaning anything, am really curious. I assumed places like Uber/ABNB/Lyft don't lose staff easily.

walshemj 7y ago
They do have to replace the churn, I haven't heard the Uber has radically different average tenure for engineering.

dinsjg3434 7y ago

Getting Bangalored