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It's the dating hack of the year! http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/empim/myownwingman_learned_i_got_dumped_by_someone_for/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Ask

It's the dating hack of the year! http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/empim/myownwingman_learned_i_got_dumped_by_someone_for/ http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/empim/myownwingma...

blub 16y ago
I don't see how what amounts to lying can be considered a clever solution. By these standards, the biggest liars are the best hackers. This is the problem that I have with both of these pseudo-hacks. Both persons are liars and cheaters, which is socially not accepted, except when dating apparently...
- dalore 16y ago
  It's not lying, it's called social engineering.
  - blub 16y ago
    Social engineering is a euphemism for lying or hiding the truth. It is at its core based on manipulation and as any tool it can be used for good of for bad. Using it to get sex is not what I consider "greater good". I suppose calling it engineering does make one feel better though... it almost sounds like something positive.
    - JonnieCache 16y ago
      Deception is but one tool in the social engineer's kit. If you're good you can get what you want without making any assertive statements whatsoever, just by using the right tone of voice.
    - petsos 16y ago
      To quote Dr. Gregory House, everybody lies (and hides the truth). Especially during dates. Why do you think the cliché advice for dating is "be yourself"? For an amusing view of how the world would be without the lying, watch the movie The Invention of Lying.
      - blub 16y ago
        Lying is probably unavoidable. There are innocent lies, or lies that are told for the greater good - these can be acceptable, although they should still be regarded with suspicion. And then there are lies like the one in this example. Where not only the lie is self-serving, but it had the potential to hurt other people. Imagine you're one of the other guys using the service and you try to talk to one of those fake profiles. You get your hopes up and then the fake profile cuts communication or plays a practical joke and invites you on a date. Don't you think that's at least a little cruel?
        petsos 16y ago
        Being cruel to people is cruel. You can accomplish that by telling the truth too ("Yes you are fat", "Santa does not exist"). Lying is a tool, it can be used for good or bad.
        pbhjpbhj 16y ago
        >You can accomplish that by telling the truth too ("Yes you are fat", "Santa does not exist"). Why are your examples cruel? Someone learns that they need to address their weight problems before it affects their health badly or if they want to woo you or whatever. Someone else learns that they receive presents not because they've been good but because people regard them; I was going to say love instead of regard but that's not always true. Sure you can say things in cruel ways ...
        norswap 16y ago
        They are cruel because they hurt (and it's beside the point to know whether that's a rational reaction) and you know it. When you do on purpose something to hurt someone, and unless there's some greater usefulness to it and no other way to do or put it, that's cruelty.
        ruchi 16y ago
        > Lying is a tool, it can be used for good or bad. That's precisely the point. Here lying was done for personal gains.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > Using it to get sex is not what I consider "greater good". Helping smart people procreate could be considered "greater good"
      - rbxbx 16y ago
        perhaps if they weren't morally broken. (blah blah, morals are gray, etc etc)
        rbanffy 16y ago
        I cannot get the "morally broken" thing. What they did, mostly, is to distract their competition and gather information on their targets. Keep in mind the targets are not passive ones and if they actually engaged in a relationship with those folks, it was because they wanted it. I never went to a second date with a girl I didn't like.
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      If you are a more interesting date and shape yourself into a better/more interesting/more exciting person because of it, where's the harm?
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Research is always lying...asking questions you don't really need the answer to, at least right now. The questioner is often an agent of the researcher, so is 'lying' about wanting the answer - they are being paid to ask somebody elses question. Not at all different from putting up fake ads in Google, and counting the number of hits.
- ljf 16y ago
  From what I hear - yes... My friends who worked for whitehat security companies would first try to hack staff before hacking servers. Best was to call up the ceo on his personal homephone every night at 3am, until they knew what he sounded like raving mad. Then they called up the admins doing a very good impression of the irate ceo demanding his passwords were reset there and then. Worked a stupid amount of times apparently... So yes, lying can be hacking and hacking can be lying.
  - rick_2047 16y ago
    These kind of hacks are paid for and authorised, I didn't see any signed contracts in these dating "hacks".
    - indrax 16y ago
      Don't buy into the notion that if it's not "ethical" it's not hacking.
      - rick_2047 16y ago
        If its not ethical, its almost illegal. And here it also deals with a buzzword "privacy".
        indrax 16y ago
        Don't buy into the notion that if it's not "legal" it's not hacking. One of the things that makes hacking possible is that the actual rules are different than the stated rules.
  - JonnieCache 16y ago
    >Best was to call up the ceo on his personal homephone every night at 3am, until they knew what he sounded like raving mad That is gold... Now I want to be a whitehat pentester even more than I did before.
    - 16y ago
- keegangrayson 16y ago
  It's called social engineering, not lying. Semantics make the hacker.

It's the dating hack of the year! http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/empim/myownwingman_learned_i_got_dumped_by_someone_for/ http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/empim/myownwingma...

blub 16y ago

I don't see how what amounts to lying can be considered a clever solution. By these standards, the biggest liars are the best hackers. This is the problem that I have with both of these pseudo-hacks. Both persons are liars and cheaters, which is socially not accepted, except when dating apparently...

dalore 16y ago
It's not lying, it's called social engineering.
- blub 16y ago
  Social engineering is a euphemism for lying or hiding the truth. It is at its core based on manipulation and as any tool it can be used for good of for bad. Using it to get sex is not what I consider "greater good". I suppose calling it engineering does make one feel better though... it almost sounds like something positive.
  - JonnieCache 16y ago
    Deception is but one tool in the social engineer's kit. If you're good you can get what you want without making any assertive statements whatsoever, just by using the right tone of voice.
  - petsos 16y ago
    To quote Dr. Gregory House, everybody lies (and hides the truth). Especially during dates. Why do you think the cliché advice for dating is "be yourself"? For an amusing view of how the world would be without the lying, watch the movie The Invention of Lying.
    - blub 16y ago
      Lying is probably unavoidable. There are innocent lies, or lies that are told for the greater good - these can be acceptable, although they should still be regarded with suspicion. And then there are lies like the one in this example. Where not only the lie is self-serving, but it had the potential to hurt other people. Imagine you're one of the other guys using the service and you try to talk to one of those fake profiles. You get your hopes up and then the fake profile cuts communication or plays a practical joke and invites you on a date. Don't you think that's at least a little cruel?
      - petsos 16y ago
        Being cruel to people is cruel. You can accomplish that by telling the truth too ("Yes you are fat", "Santa does not exist"). Lying is a tool, it can be used for good or bad.
        pbhjpbhj 16y ago
        >You can accomplish that by telling the truth too ("Yes you are fat", "Santa does not exist"). Why are your examples cruel? Someone learns that they need to address their weight problems before it affects their health badly or if they want to woo you or whatever. Someone else learns that they receive presents not because they've been good but because people regard them; I was going to say love instead of regard but that's not always true. Sure you can say things in cruel ways ...
        norswap 16y ago
        They are cruel because they hurt (and it's beside the point to know whether that's a rational reaction) and you know it. When you do on purpose something to hurt someone, and unless there's some greater usefulness to it and no other way to do or put it, that's cruelty.
        ruchi 16y ago
        > Lying is a tool, it can be used for good or bad. That's precisely the point. Here lying was done for personal gains.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > Using it to get sex is not what I consider "greater good". Helping smart people procreate could be considered "greater good"
    - rbxbx 16y ago
      perhaps if they weren't morally broken. (blah blah, morals are gray, etc etc)
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        I cannot get the "morally broken" thing. What they did, mostly, is to distract their competition and gather information on their targets. Keep in mind the targets are not passive ones and if they actually engaged in a relationship with those folks, it was because they wanted it. I never went to a second date with a girl I didn't like.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    If you are a more interesting date and shape yourself into a better/more interesting/more exciting person because of it, where's the harm?
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
Research is always lying...asking questions you don't really need the answer to, at least right now. The questioner is often an agent of the researcher, so is 'lying' about wanting the answer - they are being paid to ask somebody elses question. Not at all different from putting up fake ads in Google, and counting the number of hits.
ljf 16y ago
From what I hear - yes... My friends who worked for whitehat security companies would first try to hack staff before hacking servers. Best was to call up the ceo on his personal homephone every night at 3am, until they knew what he sounded like raving mad. Then they called up the admins doing a very good impression of the irate ceo demanding his passwords were reset there and then. Worked a stupid amount of times apparently... So yes, lying can be hacking and hacking can be lying.
- rick_2047 16y ago
  These kind of hacks are paid for and authorised, I didn't see any signed contracts in these dating "hacks".
  - indrax 16y ago
    Don't buy into the notion that if it's not "ethical" it's not hacking.
    - rick_2047 16y ago
      If its not ethical, its almost illegal. And here it also deals with a buzzword "privacy".
      - indrax 16y ago
        Don't buy into the notion that if it's not "legal" it's not hacking. One of the things that makes hacking possible is that the actual rules are different than the stated rules.
- JonnieCache 16y ago
  >Best was to call up the ceo on his personal homephone every night at 3am, until they knew what he sounded like raving mad That is gold... Now I want to be a whitehat pentester even more than I did before.
  - 16y ago
keegangrayson 16y ago
It's called social engineering, not lying. Semantics make the hacker.