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> Yu claimed, without offering any actual proofs, that HarmonyOS is “more powerful and secure than Android.” “Can it be installed on smartphones? Of course.” T

> Yu claimed, without offering any actual proofs, that HarmonyOS is “more powerful and secure than Android.” “Can it be installed on smartphones? Of course.” This immediately made me wonder if I have ever seen "without offering any actual proofs" added as a qualifier to any of the press statements of Apple, Microsoft or Google. Don't get me wrong, that kind of skepticism is good. It just feels naive and tribal to limit it to the Chinese companies.

illuminati1911 7y ago
I believe those 3 companies have shown and demonstrated their competence and ability to deliver world class software. Huawei has not, at least yet. Whether that will ever happen remains to be seen.
- switch007 7y ago
  And one of those companies let you log in to root with an empty password, very recently. The scepticism should apply across the board
  - cojxd 7y ago
    Having a bug != being unable to deliver software
    - read_if_gay_ 7y ago
      Having a bug != having a bug
  - illuminati1911 7y ago
    Cherry-picked anecdote doesn't change anything though. Skepticism applies to everyone, but more to companies (as well as individuals) that still haven't proven themselves. Edit: To close04: No one, but you ever talked about Cisco.
    - close04 7y ago
      If you follow the news daily and still consider Cisco hasn't proven to be worthy of skepticism at every turn, or reading the endless wave of "Chinese state sponsored hacker" news stories and never realize what the NSA is (EternalBlue, just as a quick read) then you're judging based on double standards. This being said my main reason for being skeptic about HarmonyOS is that it's a v1.0. And just like almost all other v1.0s it has a lot to prove and improve.
    - switch007 7y ago
      It's not an anecdote: it was a wide-reaching security issue that was objectively bad and which irrefutably happened. Anyway, I think you moved the goal posts. You were implying they should not be included in the group to be sceptical about, rather than any kind of scale.
pavs 7y ago
I have often seen there are heavy implicit bias from USA based journalists/blogs when reporting non-us based companies. More so when reporting Chinese companies. China is the second-largest economy in the world. But there is always a "but" or an implicit Asterix when reporting anything positive about Chinese companies. Second Largest smartphone manufacturer. Largest supplier of network equipment. 6-7 largest tech company in the world. 170k employees in 170 countries. 100+ billion yearly revenue. They are not even allowed to do business in USA. Arguably the most profitable market in the world.
- gtirloni 7y ago
  Large doesn't mean ethical. There's that giant firewall, the backdoors, etc.
  - krageon 7y ago
    Let's not play this particular blame-game. The ethics (or lack thereof) of the administration of China is not where this bias comes from.
    - justicezyx 7y ago
      > The ethics (or lack thereof) of the administration of China is not where this bias comes from. How so?
  - pavs 7y ago
    Seriously? https://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/ https://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/
    - gtirloni 7y ago
      One doesn't justify the other. Otherwise we're lowering the bar instead raising it.
      - 7y ago
jaclaz 7y ago
>This immediately made me wonder if I have ever seen "without offering any actual proofs" added as a qualifier to any of the press statements of Apple, Microsoft or Google. I would go a little further, even the use of the verb "to claim" is in itself a little diminutive, had it been one of the big US companies their CEO's would have probably "said", "stated" or "announced" or "affirmed" (and not "claimed").
- varjag 7y ago
  How many US CEOs would have directly compared it to a specific competitor product on the announce?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - EastToWest 7y ago
    At least one? https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2018-apple-diss-android-facebook-instagram/ https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2018-apple-diss-android-faceb... (Scroll down for a picture)
  - jsgo 7y ago
    There were I'm fairly sure 3 Google I/Os in a row where they specifically spoke of iOS when talking about new features (probably more still, I haven't followed the livestreams anymore for them or for WWDC in like 2 years I guess). WWDC they'd do it as well (some during speeches, then the "whose devices are up to date" pie charts with like ~10% on the newest Android release of the time and >70% on the newest iOS release of the time). Microsoft did it during the Windows Phone days, but I think now they're trying to extend olive branches especially to Android, but I believe they've been nice about iOS as well.
  - sniperjzp 7y ago
    Countless time Steve Jobs mocked M$ and Windows in their new products announcement.
- cojxd 7y ago
dmortin 7y ago
HarmonyOS is sort of a vaporware, isn't it? We heard about it, but if someone comes out with a new product then he should demontrate it. So skepticism is in order in this case.
- vanderZwan 7y ago
  > Don't get me wrong, that kind of skepticism is good. It just feels naive and tribal to limit it to the Chinese companies.
- imglorp 7y ago
  Ship it all and let Wireshark sort it out.
  - gruez 7y ago
    How does that work if everything is encrypted? You can smuggle the information alongside legitimate requests
    - imglorp 7y ago
      True, but at least you know the size, destination, and timing of an exchange. You can't stop detect small smuggling but a periodic pull of software updates looks vastly different from uploads of all your photos, just for example.
Mindwipe 7y ago
I think that's reasonable scepticism of a V 1.0 product. Neither iOS or Android were anything like secure as they are today when the first shipped.
bsaul 7y ago
I don't think any serious tech company, from any part of the world, would claim its brand new OS is "of course" more powerful and secure than the number 1 OS in the market, without providing at the very bare minimum some kind of twisted/fake/dishonest on-stage or video demo. Take it differently : imagine microsoft announced a brand new mobile OS. Would it say it's "of course more powerful and secure than android and iOs", period ? Could you imagine that they wouldn't get flared up ?
- nxc18 7y ago
  It’s just really not hard to claim to be more secure than Android. Sure iOS is an issue, but I don’t think anyone would believe Android is more secure than Windows Phone.
  - mda 7y ago
    Why not? Android security is actually top notch.
ghostpepper 7y ago
There has been a lot of coverage in the last couple of years questioning whether Huawei, specifically, makes trustworthy products, due to the political situation between the US and China; is it so far fetched that a large US news organization would continue that thread?
jayd16 7y ago
When you use words like "more powerful" without even defining what that means, its going to be met with skepticism. Also, Apple doesn't make these claims. They compare to their own previous generations when they want to make a comparison. They rarely mention competitors. I really don't think your concern is warranted in this case.
thefourthchime 7y ago
The same company that said they will release a folding phone, and then didn't.
ender89 7y ago
China tends to create absolute garbage for the chinese market. Huawei's reputation outside of china has taken a massive hit, even though they were considered industry leaders this time last year, so that's not helping. Add to that the fact that they seemingly pumped this out in about 4 months and skepticism is warranted.

illuminati1911 7y ago

I believe those 3 companies have shown and demonstrated their competence and ability to deliver world class software. Huawei has not, at least yet. Whether that will ever happen remains to be seen.

switch007 7y ago
And one of those companies let you log in to root with an empty password, very recently. The scepticism should apply across the board
- cojxd 7y ago
  Having a bug != being unable to deliver software
  - read_if_gay_ 7y ago
    Having a bug != having a bug
- illuminati1911 7y ago
  Cherry-picked anecdote doesn't change anything though. Skepticism applies to everyone, but more to companies (as well as individuals) that still haven't proven themselves. Edit: To close04: No one, but you ever talked about Cisco.
  - close04 7y ago
    If you follow the news daily and still consider Cisco hasn't proven to be worthy of skepticism at every turn, or reading the endless wave of "Chinese state sponsored hacker" news stories and never realize what the NSA is (EternalBlue, just as a quick read) then you're judging based on double standards. This being said my main reason for being skeptic about HarmonyOS is that it's a v1.0. And just like almost all other v1.0s it has a lot to prove and improve.
  - switch007 7y ago
    It's not an anecdote: it was a wide-reaching security issue that was objectively bad and which irrefutably happened. Anyway, I think you moved the goal posts. You were implying they should not be included in the group to be sceptical about, rather than any kind of scale.

pavs 7y ago

I have often seen there are heavy implicit bias from USA based journalists/blogs when reporting non-us based companies. More so when reporting Chinese companies. China is the second-largest economy in the world. But there is always a "but" or an implicit Asterix when reporting anything positive about Chinese companies. Second Largest smartphone manufacturer. Largest supplier of network equipment. 6-7 largest tech company in the world. 170k employees in 170 countries. 100+ billion yearly revenue. They are not even allowed to do business in USA. Arguably the most profitable market in the world.

gtirloni 7y ago
Large doesn't mean ethical. There's that giant firewall, the backdoors, etc.
- krageon 7y ago
  Let's not play this particular blame-game. The ethics (or lack thereof) of the administration of China is not where this bias comes from.
  - justicezyx 7y ago
    > The ethics (or lack thereof) of the administration of China is not where this bias comes from. How so?
- pavs 7y ago
  Seriously? https://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/ https://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/
  - gtirloni 7y ago
    One doesn't justify the other. Otherwise we're lowering the bar instead raising it.
    - 7y ago

jaclaz 7y ago

>This immediately made me wonder if I have ever seen "without offering any actual proofs" added as a qualifier to any of the press statements of Apple, Microsoft or Google. I would go a little further, even the use of the verb "to claim" is in itself a little diminutive, had it been one of the big US companies their CEO's would have probably "said", "stated" or "announced" or "affirmed" (and not "claimed").

varjag 7y ago
How many US CEOs would have directly compared it to a specific competitor product on the announce?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- EastToWest 7y ago
  At least one? https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2018-apple-diss-android-facebook-instagram/ https://www.cnet.com/news/wwdc-2018-apple-diss-android-faceb... (Scroll down for a picture)
- jsgo 7y ago
  There were I'm fairly sure 3 Google I/Os in a row where they specifically spoke of iOS when talking about new features (probably more still, I haven't followed the livestreams anymore for them or for WWDC in like 2 years I guess). WWDC they'd do it as well (some during speeches, then the "whose devices are up to date" pie charts with like ~10% on the newest Android release of the time and >70% on the newest iOS release of the time). Microsoft did it during the Windows Phone days, but I think now they're trying to extend olive branches especially to Android, but I believe they've been nice about iOS as well.
- sniperjzp 7y ago
  Countless time Steve Jobs mocked M$ and Windows in their new products announcement.
cojxd 7y ago

dmortin 7y ago

HarmonyOS is sort of a vaporware, isn't it? We heard about it, but if someone comes out with a new product then he should demontrate it. So skepticism is in order in this case.

vanderZwan 7y ago
> Don't get me wrong, that kind of skepticism is good. It just feels naive and tribal to limit it to the Chinese companies.
imglorp 7y ago
Ship it all and let Wireshark sort it out.
- gruez 7y ago
  How does that work if everything is encrypted? You can smuggle the information alongside legitimate requests
  - imglorp 7y ago
    True, but at least you know the size, destination, and timing of an exchange. You can't stop detect small smuggling but a periodic pull of software updates looks vastly different from uploads of all your photos, just for example.

Mindwipe 7y ago

I think that's reasonable scepticism of a V 1.0 product. Neither iOS or Android were anything like secure as they are today when the first shipped.

bsaul 7y ago

I don't think any serious tech company, from any part of the world, would claim its brand new OS is "of course" more powerful and secure than the number 1 OS in the market, without providing at the very bare minimum some kind of twisted/fake/dishonest on-stage or video demo. Take it differently : imagine microsoft announced a brand new mobile OS. Would it say it's "of course more powerful and secure than android and iOs", period ? Could you imagine that they wouldn't get flared up ?

nxc18 7y ago
It’s just really not hard to claim to be more secure than Android. Sure iOS is an issue, but I don’t think anyone would believe Android is more secure than Windows Phone.
- mda 7y ago
  Why not? Android security is actually top notch.

ghostpepper 7y ago

There has been a lot of coverage in the last couple of years questioning whether Huawei, specifically, makes trustworthy products, due to the political situation between the US and China; is it so far fetched that a large US news organization would continue that thread?

jayd16 7y ago

When you use words like "more powerful" without even defining what that means, its going to be met with skepticism. Also, Apple doesn't make these claims. They compare to their own previous generations when they want to make a comparison. They rarely mention competitors. I really don't think your concern is warranted in this case.

thefourthchime 7y ago

The same company that said they will release a folding phone, and then didn't.

ender89 7y ago

China tends to create absolute garbage for the chinese market. Huawei's reputation outside of china has taken a massive hit, even though they were considered industry leaders this time last year, so that's not helping. Add to that the fact that they seemingly pumped this out in about 4 months and skepticism is warranted.