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[citation needed]

nailer 7y ago
Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. Huawei is beholden to the Chinese government which has happily mown Chinese citizens down with machine guns.
- krageon 7y ago
  It's worth remembering that the world isn't divided into the US and China. There are in fact other countries, and the fact that the US is willing to violate the rights of the people in those countries on a massive scale and subsequently use that against them (which is an even more important factor) means that there is no moral high ground to be found there.
  - nailer 7y ago
    Agreed (my comment is mainly for the US because that's where a lot of HN users are) but the US is still a democracy and might assassinate people but generally doesn't murder you just for protesting.
    - nailer 7y ago
      Not complaining about downmods but -2 for a pretty boring statement like the above is a bit...interesting? - Do people not think the US is a democracy? Why? Russiagate? - Do people think the US generally murders you for protesting? - Do people think that Tiananmen Square didn't happen?
      - krageon 7y ago
        At a glance it might be: - Implying that being US-centric by default is okay - Implying that the US (police) does not arbitrarily murder people for doing things they do not like (including protesting) Those are two things that stood out to me as surprising points of view.
- pavs 7y ago
  USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world). Chinese Government does terrible things to its own people, but doesn't do terrible things to the rest of the world. Pick your poison.
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference. I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.
    - majia 7y ago
      Why is Guantanamo camp still open? Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking? In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them. There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.
    - pavs 7y ago
      > possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable When was the last time it happened, if ever?
      - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
        Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam? Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse? The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.
- emptyfile 7y ago
  > Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. I'm not one of you. Glad to know as long as its not one of you its all OK. As if the rest of the world doesn't know it.
  - nailer 7y ago
    I'm the person you're replying to and I'm not a US citizen either. The only person who has discussed this being OK is you.

[citation needed]

Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. Huawei is beholden to the Chinese government which has happily mown Chinese citizens down with machine guns.

krageon 7y ago
It's worth remembering that the world isn't divided into the US and China. There are in fact other countries, and the fact that the US is willing to violate the rights of the people in those countries on a massive scale and subsequently use that against them (which is an even more important factor) means that there is no moral high ground to be found there.
- nailer 7y ago
  Agreed (my comment is mainly for the US because that's where a lot of HN users are) but the US is still a democracy and might assassinate people but generally doesn't murder you just for protesting.
  - nailer 7y ago
    Not complaining about downmods but -2 for a pretty boring statement like the above is a bit...interesting? - Do people not think the US is a democracy? Why? Russiagate? - Do people think the US generally murders you for protesting? - Do people think that Tiananmen Square didn't happen?
    - krageon 7y ago
      At a glance it might be: - Implying that being US-centric by default is okay - Implying that the US (police) does not arbitrarily murder people for doing things they do not like (including protesting) Those are two things that stood out to me as surprising points of view.
pavs 7y ago
USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world). Chinese Government does terrible things to its own people, but doesn't do terrible things to the rest of the world. Pick your poison.
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference. I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.
  - majia 7y ago
    Why is Guantanamo camp still open? Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking? In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them. There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.
  - pavs 7y ago
    > possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable When was the last time it happened, if ever?
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam? Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse? The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.
emptyfile 7y ago
> Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. I'm not one of you. Glad to know as long as its not one of you its all OK. As if the rest of the world doesn't know it.
- nailer 7y ago
  I'm the person you're replying to and I'm not a US citizen either. The only person who has discussed this being OK is you.