6 ms·

Google smart home devices?

giancarlostoro 7y ago
Or a Facebook smart home device. Worse yet that bedroom webcam from Amazon. Idek who approved that.
repesorsa666 7y ago
I hope you are joking. The worst things Google would do are million times less worse than least worst things Huawei has done or would do.
- emptyfile 7y ago
  [citation needed]
  - nailer 7y ago
    Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. Huawei is beholden to the Chinese government which has happily mown Chinese citizens down with machine guns.
    - krageon 7y ago
      It's worth remembering that the world isn't divided into the US and China. There are in fact other countries, and the fact that the US is willing to violate the rights of the people in those countries on a massive scale and subsequently use that against them (which is an even more important factor) means that there is no moral high ground to be found there.
      - nailer 7y ago
        Agreed (my comment is mainly for the US because that's where a lot of HN users are) but the US is still a democracy and might assassinate people but generally doesn't murder you just for protesting.
        nailer 7y ago
        Not complaining about downmods but -2 for a pretty boring statement like the above is a bit...interesting? - Do people not think the US is a democracy? Why? Russiagate? - Do people think the US generally murders you for protesting? - Do people think that Tiananmen Square didn't happen?
        krageon 7y ago
        At a glance it might be: - Implying that being US-centric by default is okay - Implying that the US (police) does not arbitrarily murder people for doing things they do not like (including protesting) Those are two things that stood out to me as surprising points of view.
    - pavs 7y ago
      USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world). Chinese Government does terrible things to its own people, but doesn't do terrible things to the rest of the world. Pick your poison.
      - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
        In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference. I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.
        majia 7y ago
        Why is Guantanamo camp still open? Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking? In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them. There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.
        pavs 7y ago
        > possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable When was the last time it happened, if ever?
        SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
        Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam? Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse? The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.
    - emptyfile 7y ago
      > Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. I'm not one of you. Glad to know as long as its not one of you its all OK. As if the rest of the world doesn't know it.
      - nailer 7y ago
        I'm the person you're replying to and I'm not a US citizen either. The only person who has discussed this being OK is you.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pjc50 7y ago
  If: - you're not in or near China - you are not a Chinese national or a relative of one - you are not operating in international human rights law Then arguably the Chinese government has less power over you than the US one, or indeed Google.
- andwaal 7y ago
  My,naive, impression as a none US and none Chinese citizen is that Google will abuse all the data they can get their hands on in order to make money. Huawei on the other hand, may use your data in the way that best fits the Chinese goverment. This may of course be terrible if your an Chinese citizen doing things the goverment does not want you to do, but on the other hand as an European citizen I find it much less likely that the Chinese goverment will abuse my personal data than that Google will. edit:typos and formatting..
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    While that is a tempting view at first, I can't get behind it, given what we now know about state-sponsored efforts to destabilize western democracies, through targeted misinformation and outright cyber warfare. I think we have every reason to believe such efforts will become more sophisticated, bold and disruptive. Every bit of data that adversarial regimes may have on you, is a potential lever that they can pull. Yep, yep, private firms in the west are harvesting our data and using it in not-so-great ways. Same with our security agencies. But... imperfect though they may be, we do have many tools with which to hold them accountable and affect change, even if the odds might be stacked against us most of the time. Not to mention, we've seen how bad western companies tend to be at securing data (e.g. Equifax) - its not going to be any better in China or elsewhere.
    - andwaal 7y ago
      Is the Chinese state-sponsored cyber warfare any worse than what the US or Russia are doing? My impression is that cyber warfare is a part of what it to be an superpower, if your not doing it you are losing(__lots of citations needed__), and I have no reason not to belive that the US is not best in class when it comes to cyber warfare.
      - LaserToy 7y ago
        It doesn’t matter who has the weapon. What matter is whether it is targeting you.
  - 7y ago
wazoox 7y ago
Reminds me of the joke: "My wife asked me why I spoke so softly in the house. I said I was afraid Mark Zuckerberg was listening! She laughed. I laughed. Alexa laughed. Siri laughed. Google Voice Assistant laughed."

Or a Facebook smart home device. Worse yet that bedroom webcam from Amazon. Idek who approved that.

I hope you are joking. The worst things Google would do are million times less worse than least worst things Huawei has done or would do.

emptyfile 7y ago
[citation needed]
- nailer 7y ago
  Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. Huawei is beholden to the Chinese government which has happily mown Chinese citizens down with machine guns.
  - krageon 7y ago
    It's worth remembering that the world isn't divided into the US and China. There are in fact other countries, and the fact that the US is willing to violate the rights of the people in those countries on a massive scale and subsequently use that against them (which is an even more important factor) means that there is no moral high ground to be found there.
    - nailer 7y ago
      Agreed (my comment is mainly for the US because that's where a lot of HN users are) but the US is still a democracy and might assassinate people but generally doesn't murder you just for protesting.
      - nailer 7y ago
        Not complaining about downmods but -2 for a pretty boring statement like the above is a bit...interesting? - Do people not think the US is a democracy? Why? Russiagate? - Do people think the US generally murders you for protesting? - Do people think that Tiananmen Square didn't happen?
        krageon 7y ago
        At a glance it might be: - Implying that being US-centric by default is okay - Implying that the US (police) does not arbitrarily murder people for doing things they do not like (including protesting) Those are two things that stood out to me as surprising points of view.
  - pavs 7y ago
    USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world). Chinese Government does terrible things to its own people, but doesn't do terrible things to the rest of the world. Pick your poison.
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference. I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.
      - majia 7y ago
        Why is Guantanamo camp still open? Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking? In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them. There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.
      - pavs 7y ago
        > possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable When was the last time it happened, if ever?
        SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
        Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam? Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse? The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.
  - emptyfile 7y ago
    > Google is beholden to the US government, which does terrible things but generally tries to avoid doing them to US citizens en masse. I'm not one of you. Glad to know as long as its not one of you its all OK. As if the rest of the world doesn't know it.
    - nailer 7y ago
      I'm the person you're replying to and I'm not a US citizen either. The only person who has discussed this being OK is you.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 7y ago
If: - you're not in or near China - you are not a Chinese national or a relative of one - you are not operating in international human rights law Then arguably the Chinese government has less power over you than the US one, or indeed Google.
andwaal 7y ago
My,naive, impression as a none US and none Chinese citizen is that Google will abuse all the data they can get their hands on in order to make money. Huawei on the other hand, may use your data in the way that best fits the Chinese goverment. This may of course be terrible if your an Chinese citizen doing things the goverment does not want you to do, but on the other hand as an European citizen I find it much less likely that the Chinese goverment will abuse my personal data than that Google will. edit:typos and formatting..
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  While that is a tempting view at first, I can't get behind it, given what we now know about state-sponsored efforts to destabilize western democracies, through targeted misinformation and outright cyber warfare. I think we have every reason to believe such efforts will become more sophisticated, bold and disruptive. Every bit of data that adversarial regimes may have on you, is a potential lever that they can pull. Yep, yep, private firms in the west are harvesting our data and using it in not-so-great ways. Same with our security agencies. But... imperfect though they may be, we do have many tools with which to hold them accountable and affect change, even if the odds might be stacked against us most of the time. Not to mention, we've seen how bad western companies tend to be at securing data (e.g. Equifax) - its not going to be any better in China or elsewhere.
  - andwaal 7y ago
    Is the Chinese state-sponsored cyber warfare any worse than what the US or Russia are doing? My impression is that cyber warfare is a part of what it to be an superpower, if your not doing it you are losing(__lots of citations needed__), and I have no reason not to belive that the US is not best in class when it comes to cyber warfare.
    - LaserToy 7y ago
      It doesn’t matter who has the weapon. What matter is whether it is targeting you.
- 7y ago

wazoox 7y ago

Reminds me of the joke: "My wife asked me why I spoke so softly in the house. I said I was afraid Mark Zuckerberg was listening! She laughed. I laughed. Alexa laughed. Siri laughed. Google Voice Assistant laughed."