13 ms·

Not a hugely surprising development given what was discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20640148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2064

by KuiN 7y ago

Not a hugely surprising development given what was discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20640148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20640148

pankajdoharey 7y ago
If they bring a 64 Core to the desktop, Intel will have no market for yrs.
- dijit 7y ago
  Never underestimate the entrenched incumbent. I know plenty of people who know the Intel name and would consider AMD to be some kind of cheap knock-off (non-techs, obviously). And obviously desktop/laptop manufacturers are going to have some sweetheart deals with intel. As far as I understand it, AMD doesn't natively support thunderbolt and that's an emerging standard that people really like.
  - nevi-me 7y ago
    But a counter argument is that those people aren't the market for a 64-core desktop.
    - pankajdoharey 7y ago
      You are right, but that's not the reason not to bring it. Enthusiast level hardware helps sell commodity hardware. NVIDIA Releases RTX like cards so that their cheaper Commodity cards sell. They don't make money on High end. Same is true for Processors.
      - rys 7y ago
        You only have to look at Nvidia’s or Intel’s balance sheet to know that’s patently false.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        pankajdoharey 7y ago
        Perhaps you have to use your common sense to know there are only so many enthusiasts but there are many more gamers that cannot afford 1080-Ti. Enthusiasts consists of tiny fraction of the entire GPU and CPU market if you are insisting that the majority of sales fro NVIDIA or Intel comes from that segment of the market then I think you are wrong.
        vbezhenar 7y ago
        On the other hand they can put extreme margins for high-end hardware. So one high end device might be more profitable than 100 low end devices.
        rys 7y ago
        Just have a look at the 10-Ks. Nvidia's: "Gross margin for fiscal year 2019was 61.2%, compared with 59.9% a year earlier, which reflects our continued shift toward higher-value platforms". Datacentre is their biggest growth area today, and they have traditionally created specific high-margin products to extract value in areas with very limited competition. The same thing is true for Intel when they don't have competition. They are the company they are today due to insane gross margin on Xeon and the explosive growth of cloud computing. DCG has been Intel's top performing BU for ages until recently. Expect the same story from AMD as it eats Intel's lunch in that market. High margin semiconductors are money making machines.
  - marcyb5st 7y ago
    Intel graciously allowed the USB consortium to use Thunderbolt 3 tech for USB 4. There will be some minor differences, but this differentiator in Intel favor should fade over time. Here's is briefly explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0W7fHJMnyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0W7fHJMnyg
  - mtgx 7y ago
    > sweetheart deals AKA illegal rebates.
  - tpetry 7y ago
    Never underestimate non tech savy customers. If they can buy a notebook with processors or 16 processors they will be second one because bigger numbers means better.
  - swarnie_ 7y ago
    At least in the consumer market in the UK this is exactly what AMD is viewed as by non-techs. If you go to an average big box store and look for laptops AMD based systems can start as little as £250 where as you can't get a mobile i3 based system anywhere close. When these pathetic CPUs are teamed with slow disks and a pile of bloatware it makes them seem cheap and awful.
  - krisroadruck 7y ago
    The biasing isn't just non-techs. I've hand built every PC I've ever owned for over 20 years now, in addition to building many for family and friends, and I still have to do a bit of mental gymnastics to get over my biases for certain manufacturers. When someone like Intel has consistently delivered better performing parts for as long as they have, when AMD throws up a better part it almost feels like its a trick. Hell even now on the consumer desktop parts it looks like Intel is still edging out the newest AMD offerings on single-threaded performance. Just not at a good price. People, even smart informed people, still try to avoid decisions when it seems easy to do so. Reaching for an Intel processor has meant getting the faster part for so long that its muscle memory for people. That's going to take a while to undo.
  - ben-schaaf 7y ago
    > As far as I understand it, AMD doesn't natively support thunderbolt and that's an emerging standard that people really like. Most of the AsRock x570 motherboards support thunderbolt currently afaik
  - blattimwind 7y ago
    > As far as I understand it, AMD doesn't natively support thunderbolt and that's an emerging standard that people really like. Thunderbolt has been an "emerging standard that people really like" for almost a decade, with virtually no installed base outside select Apple products.
    - bufferoverflow 7y ago
      My wife's couple years old Lenovo Yoga 720 has a thunderbolt 3 port (type-C variety). I'm sure many other laptops have it.
- krylon 7y ago
  This might sound like a silly question, but what would one use a 64-code CPU on a desktop machine for? Or more precisely, in what situations is a 32-core ThreadRipper2 insufficient?
  - Crinus 7y ago
    I don't know about others but my lightmapper will certainly benefit :-P. Perhaps compilation times, for some stuff.
  - Quekid5 7y ago
    Compilation of C++ code is one workload. Just make sure you also have a lot of RAM!
    - TheHardew 7y ago
      Isn't c++ compilation single-threaded and linking multi-threaded? I imagine with pre-compiled headers 64 cores would be a massive overkill. I don't know, if even my 2700x wouldn't be.
      - ahartmetz 7y ago
        C++ compilation is massively multiprocess. Linking is mostly single-process but the gold (for little benefit) and lld (for good benefit) linkers support multithreading.
      - mmrezaie 7y ago
        I am not sure if any c++ compiler can actually compile a single file in parallel but usually you have many small to large files in compiling a project then "make -j" or "ninja" can build in parallel, and it is quite embarrassingly parallel task (but very memory intensive too).
      - noselasd 7y ago
        C++ compilers are normally single threaded, so you launch as many instances of the compiler as you can and make them compile different files in parallell
- TheOperator 7y ago
  Athlon 64 didn't kill Intel. Don't underestimate a King like Intel that's backed into a corner. Lots of dirty tricks to play and lots of time to come back.

by KuiN 7y ago

Not a hugely surprising development given what was discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20640148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20640148

pankajdoharey 7y ago

If they bring a 64 Core to the desktop, Intel will have no market for yrs.

dijit 7y ago
Never underestimate the entrenched incumbent. I know plenty of people who know the Intel name and would consider AMD to be some kind of cheap knock-off (non-techs, obviously). And obviously desktop/laptop manufacturers are going to have some sweetheart deals with intel. As far as I understand it, AMD doesn't natively support thunderbolt and that's an emerging standard that people really like.
- nevi-me 7y ago
  But a counter argument is that those people aren't the market for a 64-core desktop.
  - pankajdoharey 7y ago
    You are right, but that's not the reason not to bring it. Enthusiast level hardware helps sell commodity hardware. NVIDIA Releases RTX like cards so that their cheaper Commodity cards sell. They don't make money on High end. Same is true for Processors.
    - rys 7y ago
      You only have to look at Nvidia’s or Intel’s balance sheet to know that’s patently false.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - pankajdoharey 7y ago
        Perhaps you have to use your common sense to know there are only so many enthusiasts but there are many more gamers that cannot afford 1080-Ti. Enthusiasts consists of tiny fraction of the entire GPU and CPU market if you are insisting that the majority of sales fro NVIDIA or Intel comes from that segment of the market then I think you are wrong.
        vbezhenar 7y ago
        On the other hand they can put extreme margins for high-end hardware. So one high end device might be more profitable than 100 low end devices.
        rys 7y ago
        Just have a look at the 10-Ks. Nvidia's: "Gross margin for fiscal year 2019was 61.2%, compared with 59.9% a year earlier, which reflects our continued shift toward higher-value platforms". Datacentre is their biggest growth area today, and they have traditionally created specific high-margin products to extract value in areas with very limited competition. The same thing is true for Intel when they don't have competition. They are the company they are today due to insane gross margin on Xeon and the explosive growth of cloud computing. DCG has been Intel's top performing BU for ages until recently. Expect the same story from AMD as it eats Intel's lunch in that market. High margin semiconductors are money making machines.
- marcyb5st 7y ago
  Intel graciously allowed the USB consortium to use Thunderbolt 3 tech for USB 4. There will be some minor differences, but this differentiator in Intel favor should fade over time. Here's is briefly explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0W7fHJMnyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0W7fHJMnyg
- mtgx 7y ago
  > sweetheart deals AKA illegal rebates.
- tpetry 7y ago
  Never underestimate non tech savy customers. If they can buy a notebook with processors or 16 processors they will be second one because bigger numbers means better.
- swarnie_ 7y ago
  At least in the consumer market in the UK this is exactly what AMD is viewed as by non-techs. If you go to an average big box store and look for laptops AMD based systems can start as little as £250 where as you can't get a mobile i3 based system anywhere close. When these pathetic CPUs are teamed with slow disks and a pile of bloatware it makes them seem cheap and awful.
- krisroadruck 7y ago
  The biasing isn't just non-techs. I've hand built every PC I've ever owned for over 20 years now, in addition to building many for family and friends, and I still have to do a bit of mental gymnastics to get over my biases for certain manufacturers. When someone like Intel has consistently delivered better performing parts for as long as they have, when AMD throws up a better part it almost feels like its a trick. Hell even now on the consumer desktop parts it looks like Intel is still edging out the newest AMD offerings on single-threaded performance. Just not at a good price. People, even smart informed people, still try to avoid decisions when it seems easy to do so. Reaching for an Intel processor has meant getting the faster part for so long that its muscle memory for people. That's going to take a while to undo.
- ben-schaaf 7y ago
  > As far as I understand it, AMD doesn't natively support thunderbolt and that's an emerging standard that people really like. Most of the AsRock x570 motherboards support thunderbolt currently afaik
- blattimwind 7y ago
  > As far as I understand it, AMD doesn't natively support thunderbolt and that's an emerging standard that people really like. Thunderbolt has been an "emerging standard that people really like" for almost a decade, with virtually no installed base outside select Apple products.
  - bufferoverflow 7y ago
    My wife's couple years old Lenovo Yoga 720 has a thunderbolt 3 port (type-C variety). I'm sure many other laptops have it.
krylon 7y ago
This might sound like a silly question, but what would one use a 64-code CPU on a desktop machine for? Or more precisely, in what situations is a 32-core ThreadRipper2 insufficient?
- Crinus 7y ago
  I don't know about others but my lightmapper will certainly benefit :-P. Perhaps compilation times, for some stuff.
- Quekid5 7y ago
  Compilation of C++ code is one workload. Just make sure you also have a lot of RAM!
  - TheHardew 7y ago
    Isn't c++ compilation single-threaded and linking multi-threaded? I imagine with pre-compiled headers 64 cores would be a massive overkill. I don't know, if even my 2700x wouldn't be.
    - ahartmetz 7y ago
      C++ compilation is massively multiprocess. Linking is mostly single-process but the gold (for little benefit) and lld (for good benefit) linkers support multithreading.
    - mmrezaie 7y ago
      I am not sure if any c++ compiler can actually compile a single file in parallel but usually you have many small to large files in compiling a project then "make -j" or "ninja" can build in parallel, and it is quite embarrassingly parallel task (but very memory intensive too).
    - noselasd 7y ago
      C++ compilers are normally single threaded, so you launch as many instances of the compiler as you can and make them compile different files in parallell
TheOperator 7y ago
Athlon 64 didn't kill Intel. Don't underestimate a King like Intel that's backed into a corner. Lots of dirty tricks to play and lots of time to come back.