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A lot of new car "innovations" remind me of my issues with the newer iPhones and Macbook Pros (no headphone jack, thinness above all else, etc): I like having

A lot of new car "innovations" remind me of my issues with the newer iPhones and Macbook Pros (no headphone jack, thinness above all else, etc): I like having a physical key to start the engine. There was never any confusion in our household about "who has the keys" like there is now. I despise the start-stop nonsense. Let me use the pedals to start and stop. I don't need my car to broadcast a wifi signal. Etc etc etc Sometimes manufacturers should just "version-lock" their devices and keep going with it -- a lot of customers would be happier.

nerdponx 7y ago
I despise the start-stop nonsense. Let me use the pedals to start and stop. What's this in regard to? Hybrid engines starting and stopping?
- derekp7 7y ago
  Hybrids are ok, since the initial acceleration is done using the electric motor, and is instantaneous. But some non-hybrid cars will stop the engine when the car stops, and start it real quick as you move your foot off the brake. This gets a bit disconcerting for us drivers that grew up with cars that would have a hard time starting back up if the engine died in an intersection, so the first few times it happens it induces a bit of mild panic. Especially if you are at an intersection waiting for a gap in traffic, you take your foot off the brake and the engine starts, you start to ease up a bit for a better view then the engine stops again. Now there is a gap in traffic, and you want to go "right now", but if feels like there is that slight hesitation as the engine starts up again before you can start accelerating. Now on the technical side, then the engine stops, the engine is positioned at a part of the combustion cycle so that it takes very little effort for the starter to get the engine to pop off. And the starter motor is an upgraded version, designed for the frequent use, so overall it is very reliable. But from a psychological viewpoint, it is very hard to shake the feeling that your car engine just died and you are about to get hit by an oncoming car.
throwaway3627 7y ago
"Innovation" is increasingly newspeak for "regression."
1123581321 7y ago
What do you mean by “the start-stop nonsense” as opposed to using pedals? I don’t have a newer car.
- Gpetrium 7y ago
  OP is likely talking about the system that automatically shuts down and restarts the combustion engine when you come to a complete halt. This is meant to reduce emissions and fuel comsumption.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    I don't get why people are so opposed to it, I love it and I drive a Mercedes-AMG. Fantastic feature in traffic.
    - leesalminen 7y ago
      Audi driver here, and I hate it. Especially hate that I have to push a button every time I start the car to disable it. What an awful feature. Then again, I live in rural America and traffic isn’t a frequent thing I experience.
      - gambiting 7y ago
        If you don't experience traffic frequently, then why would it bother you? It does nothing if you're just driving along. And I'm curious - what exactly makes you hate it?
    - flyinghamster 7y ago
      I can't help but think that the extra wear and tear from start/stop cycles will end up exceeding the value of the fuel saved.
      - gambiting 7y ago
        People always made that argument, but seeing as S/S systems have been in use for at least a decade now and we're not seeing catastrophic increase in rates of alternator/starter failures, I'd say that's not true. And it's not about fuel savings for me at all, it's just nice that the engine shuts off in traffic, it's quiet for a moment while you're standing still.
jjclarkson 7y ago
I think "start-stop nonsense" is referring to push button ignitions
lmilcin 7y ago
I think this all happens because buyers tend to greatly overestimate value of those small features. Initially, producer will devise a new feature to differentiate from competition. Later, competition will feel pressure to keep parity and so they will also include it. It becomes a standard and nobody will sell a car without the feature. That's how you get a car laden with heaps of marginally useful features.
Shivetya 7y ago
start stop for the engine when not needed is a welcome innovation though some brands handled it poorly when introduced. It does save fuel and when done well is seamless. I had this on a manual 2012 Z4 and loved it. the wi-fi hot spot craze that manufacturers bought into never made much sense to me except as a revenue source for the same. I do know that GM though OnStar sells such services and they are seriously over priced, Onstar is near theft level just for monitoring services which is separate from data service! As for keys, I love that my phone works as my key for my Tesla Model 3. For added security I can simply have PIN to drive setup in the car. Now some will say you lose security as all they need is your phone, well that is no different than just having your key too. I would be curious if the BT connection on the TM3 can be opened via signal boosting between phone and car. I do believe the optional key fob can be. Now myself, though I had and tried it, I am not a fan of letting my phone take over the car UI no matter how dreadful a UI can be. I used it on my second generation Volt but in the end it really didn't not make much sense. First off, like I have found in my TM3 I really don't use much of the display or buttons while driving so any added features are moot. I did like that it would tell me my text messages, but some cars do that as well and let you voice transcribe replies. The advantage for cars other than Tesla is that in those cars maps are never updated or only for money and infrequently. Let alone all other features.
- cameldrv 7y ago
  Earlier versions of S/S worked a lot better with manual transmission cars. If you stop at a light and put the car in neutral, the first thing you have to do to go again is push down the clutch. You push it all the way down, then move your foot from the brake to the gas. You only expect the car to start moving when you start pushing down the gas and lifting the clutch. The S/S system can begin restarting the engine as soon as you touch the clutch. In an automatic car, you stop with your foot on the brake, and as soon as you start lifting your foot, the car is supposed to start moving. You need a much more responsive and tuned S/S system to give a good experience when it has much less time to react.

nerdponx 7y ago

I despise the start-stop nonsense. Let me use the pedals to start and stop. What's this in regard to? Hybrid engines starting and stopping?

derekp7 7y ago
Hybrids are ok, since the initial acceleration is done using the electric motor, and is instantaneous. But some non-hybrid cars will stop the engine when the car stops, and start it real quick as you move your foot off the brake. This gets a bit disconcerting for us drivers that grew up with cars that would have a hard time starting back up if the engine died in an intersection, so the first few times it happens it induces a bit of mild panic. Especially if you are at an intersection waiting for a gap in traffic, you take your foot off the brake and the engine starts, you start to ease up a bit for a better view then the engine stops again. Now there is a gap in traffic, and you want to go "right now", but if feels like there is that slight hesitation as the engine starts up again before you can start accelerating. Now on the technical side, then the engine stops, the engine is positioned at a part of the combustion cycle so that it takes very little effort for the starter to get the engine to pop off. And the starter motor is an upgraded version, designed for the frequent use, so overall it is very reliable. But from a psychological viewpoint, it is very hard to shake the feeling that your car engine just died and you are about to get hit by an oncoming car.

throwaway3627 7y ago

"Innovation" is increasingly newspeak for "regression."

1123581321 7y ago

What do you mean by “the start-stop nonsense” as opposed to using pedals? I don’t have a newer car.

Gpetrium 7y ago
OP is likely talking about the system that automatically shuts down and restarts the combustion engine when you come to a complete halt. This is meant to reduce emissions and fuel comsumption.
- gambiting 7y ago
  I don't get why people are so opposed to it, I love it and I drive a Mercedes-AMG. Fantastic feature in traffic.
  - leesalminen 7y ago
    Audi driver here, and I hate it. Especially hate that I have to push a button every time I start the car to disable it. What an awful feature. Then again, I live in rural America and traffic isn’t a frequent thing I experience.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      If you don't experience traffic frequently, then why would it bother you? It does nothing if you're just driving along. And I'm curious - what exactly makes you hate it?
  - flyinghamster 7y ago
    I can't help but think that the extra wear and tear from start/stop cycles will end up exceeding the value of the fuel saved.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      People always made that argument, but seeing as S/S systems have been in use for at least a decade now and we're not seeing catastrophic increase in rates of alternator/starter failures, I'd say that's not true. And it's not about fuel savings for me at all, it's just nice that the engine shuts off in traffic, it's quiet for a moment while you're standing still.

jjclarkson 7y ago

I think "start-stop nonsense" is referring to push button ignitions

lmilcin 7y ago

I think this all happens because buyers tend to greatly overestimate value of those small features. Initially, producer will devise a new feature to differentiate from competition. Later, competition will feel pressure to keep parity and so they will also include it. It becomes a standard and nobody will sell a car without the feature. That's how you get a car laden with heaps of marginally useful features.

Shivetya 7y ago

start stop for the engine when not needed is a welcome innovation though some brands handled it poorly when introduced. It does save fuel and when done well is seamless. I had this on a manual 2012 Z4 and loved it. the wi-fi hot spot craze that manufacturers bought into never made much sense to me except as a revenue source for the same. I do know that GM though OnStar sells such services and they are seriously over priced, Onstar is near theft level just for monitoring services which is separate from data service! As for keys, I love that my phone works as my key for my Tesla Model 3. For added security I can simply have PIN to drive setup in the car. Now some will say you lose security as all they need is your phone, well that is no different than just having your key too. I would be curious if the BT connection on the TM3 can be opened via signal boosting between phone and car. I do believe the optional key fob can be. Now myself, though I had and tried it, I am not a fan of letting my phone take over the car UI no matter how dreadful a UI can be. I used it on my second generation Volt but in the end it really didn't not make much sense. First off, like I have found in my TM3 I really don't use much of the display or buttons while driving so any added features are moot. I did like that it would tell me my text messages, but some cars do that as well and let you voice transcribe replies. The advantage for cars other than Tesla is that in those cars maps are never updated or only for money and infrequently. Let alone all other features.

cameldrv 7y ago
Earlier versions of S/S worked a lot better with manual transmission cars. If you stop at a light and put the car in neutral, the first thing you have to do to go again is push down the clutch. You push it all the way down, then move your foot from the brake to the gas. You only expect the car to start moving when you start pushing down the gas and lifting the clutch. The S/S system can begin restarting the engine as soon as you touch the clutch. In an automatic car, you stop with your foot on the brake, and as soon as you start lifting your foot, the car is supposed to start moving. You need a much more responsive and tuned S/S system to give a good experience when it has much less time to react.