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Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis
- saiya-jin 7y agoFinally some sanity coming to good old Europe. Instead of making (rather big) part of the population automatically criminals, state 1) gets revenue (directly taxing plus new jobs); 2) can monitor usage, set maximum potency, strains, etc (good enough for most users); 3) takes significant revenue from proper criminals, local and worldwide; 4) makes various medical products more available. Everybody, apart from organized and local crime, wins.
- adrianN 7y agoThe alcohol industry might also lose.
- bregma 7y agoIn Canada the alcohol industry has bought into the cannabis industry big-time.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- qekbg 7y agoA rather big part of the population smokes weed? What?
- Kiro 7y agohttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/World_map_of_countries_by_annual_prevalence_of_cannabis_use.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/World_ma...
- qekbg 7y agoWow, that is terrible.
- bregma 7y ago> Wow, that is terrible. Are you referring to the sickly green colour and unreadable size of the graphic, or are making a value judgement about the fact that there seems to be a correlation between national GDP and the use of a moderately harmless psychoactive drug for recreational purposes? You could be less ambiguous.
- majewsky 7y agoWhat's with Papua New Guinea?
- flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago14% of Italians have enjoyed Cannabis in the past year [0], I'd say that's a rather big part of a European country's population. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cannabis_use_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cannabis_use_by_country
- johnisgood 7y agoWhat is a "proper criminal"?
- dep_b 7y ago> Schneider said the legislation was likely to include a ban on non-residents buying cannabis in order to dissuade drug-tourism. Given the fact they're sharing a border with France: probably a good idea.
- reallydontask 7y agoA genuine question, Aren't all EU citizens supposed to be treated equally across the EU? How would such a ban work?
- qekbg 7y ago>A genuine question, Aren't all EU citizens supposed to be treated equally across the EU? Nope. At least by now, but little by little they are taking the sovereignty of members.
- unilynx 7y agoWe'll see soon enough.. we just need someone to get arrested first. It's a good thing they picked Luxembourg for this experiment, it will cut back on the travel time for everyone involved getting to the ECJ
- mtarnovan 7y agoWho exactly is "they"? Tinfoil much?
- guan 7y agoPresumably all residents, including those from other EU/EEA countries, would be allowed to buy. I believe discrimination against nonresidents is allowed under EU law in many contexts, for example for social benefits. (But not allowed in other contexts, for example discrimination against nonresidents can restrict the free movement of capital.)
- phaemon 7y agoThey are being treated equally. A citizen of France who is resident in Luxembourg would be able to purchase. A citizen of Luxembourg who is resident in France, wouldn't. You can have rules that apply only to residents, but they have to be applied to any resident.
- bregma 7y agoThe dominoes fall, one by one. The upside is that the wealth from legal cannabis sales will now flow through to the rich white men where it belongs rather than to the minority folk who dominate the black market.
- n1ght 7y agoTheir weed is terrible though, luckily it became gentrified for the current strains instead of their ditch weed.
- adrianN 7y agoThe poor minority folks leading organized crime.
- ianleeclark 7y agoIf their crimes are predicated upon a law which is no longer seen as justifiable, it's almost like they weren't doing anything bad at all.
- adrianN 7y agoSelling drugs is a money source for organizations that do things you generally don't want to legalize.
- ianleeclark 7y agoMost people are just trying to make a living. Hopefully the pritzker company is forced to atone for their evils.
- bregma 7y agoI walk into a cannabis store near me and see young white people behind the counter, and I know the license holder is a wealthy white person (because it's public record). I know the company running the government website where I can buy online is owned and run by a bunch of rich white men (because it's a public company) and most its employees are well-educated, well-to-do white men because I know many of them personally. I know the government that owns the distribution and licensing channels and collects the excise taxes is mostly rich white men because I voted. I know the corporations that produce wholesale cannabis are owned and run by wealthy white men because I own stock and get the annual reports. I see dealers in the local park. They don't tend to be wealthy white men, and they don't tend to be the people running the organized crime either. The organized crime will just move into more profitable areas like phishing scams and bond ratings agencies. It's the dealers on the street who suffer the most from the legalization of the recreational cannabis trade. I definitely see legalization as best for society as a whole. I'm just uncomfortable with yet another way the cream floats to the top.
- patchtopic 7y agoWhat about Portugal, or is that decriminalisation?
- magashna 7y agoPT is decriminalized, not legalized
- Fnoord 7y agoDecriminalization. If you have too much on you, you still end up with a record. Source: ex of my partner got busted with too much cannabis in Portugal (whilst living there, and being a regular smoker). In The Netherlands, its 5 gram per person max, and IIRC also 4 or 5 XTC pills (I can't quite remember). Though that information is from '00s. It might've changed, I don't know.
- pmoriarty 7y ago"Decriminalization. If you have too much on you, you still end up with a record." From the article, it sounds like Luxembourg is the same: "those who break the more generous laws will be hit with harsh penalties under the plan"
- JFFalcon 7y agoI think that was referring to 12-17 year olds.
- LeonM 7y agoDutch person here. For weed, the law states a maximum of 5 grams (or 5 plants, if you grow them). For any 'hard' drugs, such as XTC the legal limit is 0. But if you get caught carrying an amount that is small enough to be considered for personal use, the police usually won't act on it. If you carry larger quantities than what is considered personal use, it is usually confiscated and you risk a fine (but only if the police has indication that you are selling the drugs). The weird thing is that the 5 gram rule also counts for the weed dispensary (which are known as 'coffee shops' in NL). So even though it is legal for them to sell the cannabis from their shop, they can't legally buy it from the grower. They aren't even supposed to have more than 5 grams in stock. The growers that supply the shops must also do this illegally, and they are constantly playing cat-and-mouse with the police. Clearly, the law is ambiguous and both police, growers and dispensary owners are encouraging the government to fully legalize cannabis.
- mcv 7y agoWait, what about Portugal? Didn't they also legalise it?
- dylkil 7y agothey decriminalized it
- alien1993 7y agoPortugal decriminalized it, you can't buy it legally anyway. > If someone is found in the possession of less than a 10-day supply of anything from marijuana to heroin, he or she is sent to a three-person Commission for the Dissuasion of Drug Addiction, typically made up of a lawyer, a doctor and a social worker. The commission recommends treatment or a minor fine; otherwise, the person is sent off without any penalty. A vast majority of the time, there is no penalty. Quote from: https://www.mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening https://www.mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-...
- mcv 7y agoThat is indeed not quite the same thing. My impression of the Portugal situation was different, but apparently incorrect.
- happy_tentacles 7y agoPortuguese are following a path of decriminalisation, which in a legal sense if a long shot away from the legalisation that the state of Luxembourg has just announced... Production and sale are still criminalised in Portugal, and possession is still considered illegal, but with no penalties to first time offenders and considered a health issue for repeated offenders. The major difference - Decriminalisation complies with their international obligations as per signed international treaties, Legalisation does not. State of Luxembourg thinks they will get away with that, and I would bet this has been thoroughly vetted with their international partners.
- maklu 7y agoLuxembourg should be implementing more laws that are 'firsts' or may be deemed risky (looking also at renewable energy sources, electric vehicle infrastructure, the future of cryptocurrency,...). As a small (and wealthy) nation, they are a perfect testing ground for new laws & regulations.
- emptyfile 7y agoBravo, and here's hoping that other countries follow. I was recently shocked to discover that my backwards eastern european country is one of the few in the EU that has even decriminalized drugs; I genuinely thought that this was standard in the EU but apparently not, see this map https://i.imgur.com/A0JICkk.jpg https://i.imgur.com/A0JICkk.jpg
- Fnoord 7y agoIn Germany, there's a huge difference between Bavaria/Munich and Berlin. In Berlin, cannabis might get confiscated while in Bavaria/Munich you end up with jail time. To aid further with irony, in Bavaria/Munich they drink a lot of beer (= drugs) during Oktoberfest.
- thecleaner 7y agoOff topic but I found Bavaria to be much more snobbish in general. For example, point out something funny about them and they immediately go on the defensive, however everyt time they say something rude and you point it out, they play the German honesty card. Never had such a problem with Berlin or Frankfurt.
- EForEndeavour 7y agoIn my n = 1 anecdotal experience, that description perfectly matches a person I know from the Frankfurt Rhein-Main region.
- YippRino 7y agoNot doubting you, but what's the sample size here? Pretty interesting that regional differences like this do exist in some places. And anecdotally, friend of mine spoke pretty highly of Bavaria after a (very) short trip.
- Krasnol 7y agoI can confirm that and I'm there regularly for business. I assume it's because it's pretty much the pearl of the region (Bavaria) and if you take this away there is not much left. Also the city is full of pretty rich people who tend to this kind of behaviour. You see the same in people where the location of the city is similar like Warsaw in Poland for example being surrounded by backwater villages.
- umvi 7y agoI thought all drugs were legal in Amsterdam and Portugal?
- grahamel 7y agodecriminalized only
- paol 7y agoConsumption is legal, sale is not. That's what "decriminalization" usually describes, as opposed to "legalization" Edit: but sale of cannabis is legal in the NL, under some conditions.
- mettamage 7y agoNo it's not. It's illegal by law [1, 2] (Dutch sources). The supply chain is definitely still illegal. In short you have (making these terms up): 1. Growers who produce and distribute the weed, 2. Runners who pick it up and bring it to the coffeeshop, 3. Coffeeshops It's only legal for the coffeeshops to sell. This sometimes devolves to a game like tag. The runners need to go as fast to the coffeeshop as possible in the most stealthy way. If the police catch them, then they are in trouble. However, if they bring it into the coffeeshop, they are safe. Disclaimer: I am very biased here, I think this whole system is idiotic. The Netherlands should legalize weed. They have two economic incentives (1) weed tax and (2) sustained tourism. [1] https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/drugs/gedoogbeleid-softdrugs-en-coffeeshops https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/drugs/gedoogbeleid-... - official source [2] https://www.jellinek.nl/informatie-over-alcohol-drugs/cannabis/cannabis-basisinfo/cannabis-en-de-wet/ https://www.jellinek.nl/informatie-over-alcohol-drugs/cannab... - some talkshow source but explains it quite well
- codfrantic 7y ago> The Netherlands should legalize weed. They have two economic incentives (1) weed tax and (2) sustained tourism. (3) professional agriculture can start producing high quality cannabis in greenhouses instead of the often dangerous attic setups with stolen electricity. (although people do get very creative! https://nltimes.nl/2016/07/22/cannabis-farm-found-eindhoven-bridge https://nltimes.nl/2016/07/22/cannabis-farm-found-eindhoven-...)
- therealmarv 7y agoLiving there cost so much... they maybe need that.
- frshmtt 7y agoFinally some rational policy.. Hopefully only a matter of time until further countries follow suit.
- rolltiide 7y agoEurope (as a patchwork of easily accessible jurisdictions) is almost perfect for me, but the lack of recreational weed is such a stark in-congruency. This Luxembourg plan is a good start but: - legalization in 5 years - non-residents cant buy This is still so odd and ridiculous Even Portugal doesnt regulate the cultivation and sale of weed. So there is no lit market anywhere and the quality all sucks. Its like come on Germany or someone central, legalize it. You got girls running around regulated decadent brothels hiding weed and party favors from the cops like its high school. Combinations that are like really? Thats what we’re worried about here? So like I said, almost perfect.
- d--b 7y agoThe article says it's not technically legal in the Netherlands but tolerated. But the technicality doesn't matter. As an experiment, cannabis legalization happened in a much bigger European country than Luxembourg 20 years ago...
- dajohnson89 7y agoTechnicality very much matters. The legality is a reason for them to put you in jail, if they wanted to do so.
- Tharkun 7y agoIndeed. And while it may have been sort of decriminalized, it is very much actively prohibited in many border towns to reduce drug tourism.
- huntersitting 7y agoMan, I am so close!