6 ms·

Western Academia Helps Build China’s Automated Racism

59 points by sexy_seedbox 7y ago

aznpwnzor 7y ago
China's problem has always been how to maintain control through the ebb and flows of history. When centralized governments fail in China, they fail HARD. (This in no way is a moral defense of what they do.) With mounting economic pressure from internal growth slowing down and n-times-burned global trading partners, the current regime is up against the wall. The one BIG difference this time is that AI has such effective policing effectiveness. Previously marshaling paramilitaries and corralling local warlords were the (hard to scale) tools available. They were not the best tools, because when the central govt fails, the empowered local forces have enough strength to wreak havoc. AI is so powerful in China because AI is mostly bound by dataset size (at our current stage of research). And if there's one thing that's cheap for the CCP to get, it's training data. If there's a time for dynasty building, it is now. The CCP may be the most resilient thanks to AI.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
codedokode 7y ago
There are almost no ethical uses for facial recognition. It is a technology for criminals.
- DiseasedBadger 7y ago
  Wow, the completely untested downvotes are an incredible indictment of HN's moderation.
- crimsonalucard 7y ago
  What about unlocking my front door with a facial recognition lock. Are you telling me that's not ethical?
  - coldtea 7y ago
    There are not ethical uses for facial recognition that we couldn't do with better, older and younger technologies.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    Exactly so. A face is an identifier, not an authenticator. No biometric should ever unlock any lock by itself. It should only determine which thing-you-know or thing-you-have is usable for unlocking that lock. So if your front door recognizes your face, it decides that the RFID fob you typically keep in your pocket is good enough to unlock whenever that gets close enough to read, or that hearing the vocal sounds for "rezrov" or "open up" is an acceptable key. Otherwise, a housebreaker could take some photos with a telescopic lens and print your face onto a mannequin head with hydro-dip printing or silicone-pad transfer printing, and unlock your house with it. Forever. Or at least until you get a new face.
    - crimsonalucard 7y ago
      The technology doesn't exist yet but I'm talking about a facial recognition technology that is on par if not better than the human eye. Such a technology is on par with a lock. Because it is basically impossible for any human to imitate another human to a degree where they can murder someone and pretend to live his life. It's easier to copy a key than it is to reproduce a fully identical face. Twins being the exception to all of this, but with facial recognition devices that beat humans this still remains a possibility as no two faces are alike.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - WalterSear 7y ago
      Regardless, it's an ethical use case for facial recognition.
      - eveningcoffee 7y ago
- jmole 7y ago
  yet literally every one of us is born with this capability.
  - codedokode 7y ago
    Can you remember millions of faces? Can you watch video from millions of cameras simultaneously and create a list of routes and profiles of people taken by them? Can you look at a person and find his/her social network profile in a second? Sorry, but I doubt your capabilities can be even remotely compared to software.
- chessturk 7y ago
  Let's say I fully agree with you, now what? Ban K-Nearest-Neighbor?
  - codedokode 7y ago
    Make face models equivalent to PII and restrict collecting, selling, exchanging them. If you don't do this then there will be cameras on every corner collecting and selling information about your habits, because merchants are desperate to obtain them.
ETHisso2017 7y ago
I hate to be that guy/girl, but aren't all facial recognition algorithms by definition racist? In the case of China, it seems like the real issue is that the racism seems to be an open feature of the product rather than something carefully cloaked in bland PR-speak.
- threezero 7y ago
  Yes, race is a feature of facial recognition. Is that racist? This algorithm seems to be specifically built to detect non-ethnic Chinese faces to further discrimination.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jacquesm 7y ago
That mortgage has to be paid.
whoevercares 7y ago
Exactly, Chinese leads CVPR or any other CV conference. Not so long from now China will also leads AI

59 points by sexy_seedbox 7y ago

China's problem has always been how to maintain control through the ebb and flows of history. When centralized governments fail in China, they fail HARD. (This in no way is a moral defense of what they do.) With mounting economic pressure from internal growth slowing down and n-times-burned global trading partners, the current regime is up against the wall. The one BIG difference this time is that AI has such effective policing effectiveness. Previously marshaling paramilitaries and corralling local warlords were the (hard to scale) tools available. They were not the best tools, because when the central govt fails, the empowered local forces have enough strength to wreak havoc. AI is so powerful in China because AI is mostly bound by dataset size (at our current stage of research). And if there's one thing that's cheap for the CCP to get, it's training data. If there's a time for dynasty building, it is now. The CCP may be the most resilient thanks to AI.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

codedokode 7y ago

There are almost no ethical uses for facial recognition. It is a technology for criminals.

DiseasedBadger 7y ago
Wow, the completely untested downvotes are an incredible indictment of HN's moderation.
crimsonalucard 7y ago
What about unlocking my front door with a facial recognition lock. Are you telling me that's not ethical?
- coldtea 7y ago
  There are not ethical uses for facial recognition that we couldn't do with better, older and younger technologies.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  Exactly so. A face is an identifier, not an authenticator. No biometric should ever unlock any lock by itself. It should only determine which thing-you-know or thing-you-have is usable for unlocking that lock. So if your front door recognizes your face, it decides that the RFID fob you typically keep in your pocket is good enough to unlock whenever that gets close enough to read, or that hearing the vocal sounds for "rezrov" or "open up" is an acceptable key. Otherwise, a housebreaker could take some photos with a telescopic lens and print your face onto a mannequin head with hydro-dip printing or silicone-pad transfer printing, and unlock your house with it. Forever. Or at least until you get a new face.
  - crimsonalucard 7y ago
    The technology doesn't exist yet but I'm talking about a facial recognition technology that is on par if not better than the human eye. Such a technology is on par with a lock. Because it is basically impossible for any human to imitate another human to a degree where they can murder someone and pretend to live his life. It's easier to copy a key than it is to reproduce a fully identical face. Twins being the exception to all of this, but with facial recognition devices that beat humans this still remains a possibility as no two faces are alike.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - WalterSear 7y ago
    Regardless, it's an ethical use case for facial recognition.
    - eveningcoffee 7y ago
jmole 7y ago
yet literally every one of us is born with this capability.
- codedokode 7y ago
  Can you remember millions of faces? Can you watch video from millions of cameras simultaneously and create a list of routes and profiles of people taken by them? Can you look at a person and find his/her social network profile in a second? Sorry, but I doubt your capabilities can be even remotely compared to software.
chessturk 7y ago
Let's say I fully agree with you, now what? Ban K-Nearest-Neighbor?
- codedokode 7y ago
  Make face models equivalent to PII and restrict collecting, selling, exchanging them. If you don't do this then there will be cameras on every corner collecting and selling information about your habits, because merchants are desperate to obtain them.

ETHisso2017 7y ago

I hate to be that guy/girl, but aren't all facial recognition algorithms by definition racist? In the case of China, it seems like the real issue is that the racism seems to be an open feature of the product rather than something carefully cloaked in bland PR-speak.

threezero 7y ago
Yes, race is a feature of facial recognition. Is that racist? This algorithm seems to be specifically built to detect non-ethnic Chinese faces to further discrimination.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jacquesm 7y ago

That mortgage has to be paid.

whoevercares 7y ago

Exactly, Chinese leads CVPR or any other CV conference. Not so long from now China will also leads AI