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I am kind of upset there is no commercial way to test your blood or urine for endocrine disruptors. You can test your hormones for $100-300 depending on how com

I am kind of upset there is no commercial way to test your blood or urine for endocrine disruptors. You can test your hormones for $100-300 depending on how comprehensive you want, and you can test sperm quality directly for another $100-200. Still, this is a pretty penny for most people. Why is this so expensive?

oddx 7y ago
In my country (Estern Europe) sperm qulity test cost around 5-15$.
- aznumeric 7y ago
  Also MRI is $100 and that's without insurance. While the cheapest MRI I could find in the US, with an individual insurance plan, is $500 out of pocket.
demosito666 7y ago
Because you're probably writing this from US.
Mathnerd314 7y ago
Because it's healthcare-related and hence heavily regulated? Lab certification is $1000 a year or so, and then all the equipment has to be certified "medical grade" and so it is marked up 100x.
- sigstoat 7y ago
  > Lab certification is $1000 a year or so, and then all the equipment has to be certified "medical grade" and so it is marked up 100x. having actually been involved in the operation of a CLIA lab, i can safely say the above is nonsense. $1000/yr fee would not meaningfully affect the profits of any operating lab. the flat fees aren't $1000, and they're not annual. and the prep time for the inspection of any legitimate lab will cost way more than that. there's no "medical grade" certification for your instrumentation. if you're at all accustomed to dealing with bureaucracy and paperwork, being a CLIA lab just isn't very challenging. (which is what makes it so hilarious that Theranos couldn't manage it.)
  - Mathnerd314 7y ago
    I was going off this spreadsheet (linked from https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/laboratory-certification-program https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/laboratory-certificat...): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idB9BoHmA-nROLUtPyemGlGim7iUDfs-2HdM_v1JJd8/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idB9BoHmA-nROLUtPyem... For in-state the minimum charge seems to be $350 + $300 + $150 + travel costs = roughly $1000. But it's true, my research for this comment was inadequate.
- patientplatypus 7y ago
  That's a reason to break the health insurance system. I have a bodily basic human right to know if my environment is poisoning me.
PaulHoule 7y ago
Multiple Problems * Which endocrine disruptors? Many are known, even more are unknown * Timing of exposure matters more than amount. Tiny doses of substances which are safe for adults will damage you if you are an embryo at the right phase. * What can you do with this information once you have it?
- decebalus1 7y ago
  nothing in your reply addresses anything the OP asked.
  - PaulHoule 7y ago
    Not sure why you say that. If somebody was to market a test for endocrine disruptors and persistent organic pollutants they would have to specify what you are testing for, what thresholds to use, etc.
    - krageon 7y ago
      They were asking about any test at all. The answer kind of muddies the problem by implying it is harder than it seems, except the current situation is nothing exists at all. The stated problem was not at all that it wasn't qualitatively adequate.
- herbps10 7y ago
  Most emerging contaminants have no clinical reference levels for safe vs. unsafe exposure, so often the best you can do is compare your exposure level to a reference distribution to see if you have relatively high levels. The CDC tests thousands of people in the U.S. every two years for a panel of chemicals (including endocrine disruptors) via NHANES, so at very least you can compare your results to that to see if you are unusual relative to a nationally representative sample of Americans.
imgabe 7y ago
Not only expensive, but I recently wanted to get a sperm quality test done and the labs I called flat out refused to do it without a referral. Even though I was willing to pay cash and forgo all of the insurance nonsense. It is apparently impossible to just get a test done because you want to unless you pay a doctor to refer you.
- word-reader 7y ago
  yospermtest.com sells an at home test that is basically a magnifying lens and collection tray that attaches to your phone, and an app to analyze the sample. edit: Yes, the referral thing is absurd. People answering the phones at medical offices when I've called trying to give them money will act confused or even offended if you ask how much things cost. Thankfully there are some new businesses like this chipping away at the edges.
  - dogma1138 7y ago
    Sperm count is only one aspect of it I don’t think that their app can measure sperm vitality and other factors that are just as important.
- charlieflowers 7y ago
  Many blood tests can be bought on lifeextension.com. The actual bloodwork will be done by Labcorp or similar. I've tried it a couple times and it went fine. Once was for my minor daughter and it was a hassle getting the guardian authorization form into LabCorp's system because lifeextension.com is a bit sucky at anything outside the norm. Don't know if they cover these particular tests, but probably.
- Josh379 7y ago
  Hack it with a microscope and a lot of reading.
herbps10 7y ago
I used to work on an endocrine disruptor (EDC) testing program (https://wwww.silentspring.org/detoxmeactionkit/ https://wwww.silentspring.org/detoxmeactionkit/). Analytical laboratories won't deal with individual samples from consumers, so our approach was to collect batches that we sent to the lab all at once. The cost adds up quickly because (1) the analytical chemistry done for the testing requires a mass spectrometer, which need constant expert attention and expensive reference standards, (2) urine needs to be mailed frozen, which requires overnight shipping. The program I worked on didn't test for phthalates because IIRC that would require sending the samples through the mass spec a second time, which substantially increases the price. I think it would be possible to bring the price down if you had your own dedicated mass spec and high volume, but it's never going to be cheap. Unfortunately the usefulness of this kind of testing increases the more you can get tested, e.g. before and after a dietary intervention. I think the market for this kind of testing could be large if there was a way to bring the price down, but that probably requires the development of new analytical chemistry techniques.
AstralStorm 7y ago
Do we even know which things are endocrine disruptors, rather than guesses? Even most phthalates are at best mildly associated... I suppose just testing for heavy metals would find most clear cut cases.

oddx 7y ago

In my country (Estern Europe) sperm qulity test cost around 5-15$.

aznumeric 7y ago
Also MRI is $100 and that's without insurance. While the cheapest MRI I could find in the US, with an individual insurance plan, is $500 out of pocket.

demosito666 7y ago

Because you're probably writing this from US.

Mathnerd314 7y ago

Because it's healthcare-related and hence heavily regulated? Lab certification is $1000 a year or so, and then all the equipment has to be certified "medical grade" and so it is marked up 100x.

sigstoat 7y ago
> Lab certification is $1000 a year or so, and then all the equipment has to be certified "medical grade" and so it is marked up 100x. having actually been involved in the operation of a CLIA lab, i can safely say the above is nonsense. $1000/yr fee would not meaningfully affect the profits of any operating lab. the flat fees aren't $1000, and they're not annual. and the prep time for the inspection of any legitimate lab will cost way more than that. there's no "medical grade" certification for your instrumentation. if you're at all accustomed to dealing with bureaucracy and paperwork, being a CLIA lab just isn't very challenging. (which is what makes it so hilarious that Theranos couldn't manage it.)
- Mathnerd314 7y ago
  I was going off this spreadsheet (linked from https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/laboratory-certification-program https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/laboratory-certificat...): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idB9BoHmA-nROLUtPyemGlGim7iUDfs-2HdM_v1JJd8/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1idB9BoHmA-nROLUtPyem... For in-state the minimum charge seems to be $350 + $300 + $150 + travel costs = roughly $1000. But it's true, my research for this comment was inadequate.
patientplatypus 7y ago
That's a reason to break the health insurance system. I have a bodily basic human right to know if my environment is poisoning me.

PaulHoule 7y ago

Multiple Problems * Which endocrine disruptors? Many are known, even more are unknown * Timing of exposure matters more than amount. Tiny doses of substances which are safe for adults will damage you if you are an embryo at the right phase. * What can you do with this information once you have it?

decebalus1 7y ago
nothing in your reply addresses anything the OP asked.
- PaulHoule 7y ago
  Not sure why you say that. If somebody was to market a test for endocrine disruptors and persistent organic pollutants they would have to specify what you are testing for, what thresholds to use, etc.
  - krageon 7y ago
    They were asking about any test at all. The answer kind of muddies the problem by implying it is harder than it seems, except the current situation is nothing exists at all. The stated problem was not at all that it wasn't qualitatively adequate.
herbps10 7y ago
Most emerging contaminants have no clinical reference levels for safe vs. unsafe exposure, so often the best you can do is compare your exposure level to a reference distribution to see if you have relatively high levels. The CDC tests thousands of people in the U.S. every two years for a panel of chemicals (including endocrine disruptors) via NHANES, so at very least you can compare your results to that to see if you are unusual relative to a nationally representative sample of Americans.

imgabe 7y ago

Not only expensive, but I recently wanted to get a sperm quality test done and the labs I called flat out refused to do it without a referral. Even though I was willing to pay cash and forgo all of the insurance nonsense. It is apparently impossible to just get a test done because you want to unless you pay a doctor to refer you.

word-reader 7y ago
yospermtest.com sells an at home test that is basically a magnifying lens and collection tray that attaches to your phone, and an app to analyze the sample. edit: Yes, the referral thing is absurd. People answering the phones at medical offices when I've called trying to give them money will act confused or even offended if you ask how much things cost. Thankfully there are some new businesses like this chipping away at the edges.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  Sperm count is only one aspect of it I don’t think that their app can measure sperm vitality and other factors that are just as important.
charlieflowers 7y ago
Many blood tests can be bought on lifeextension.com. The actual bloodwork will be done by Labcorp or similar. I've tried it a couple times and it went fine. Once was for my minor daughter and it was a hassle getting the guardian authorization form into LabCorp's system because lifeextension.com is a bit sucky at anything outside the norm. Don't know if they cover these particular tests, but probably.
Josh379 7y ago
Hack it with a microscope and a lot of reading.

herbps10 7y ago

I used to work on an endocrine disruptor (EDC) testing program (https://wwww.silentspring.org/detoxmeactionkit/ https://wwww.silentspring.org/detoxmeactionkit/). Analytical laboratories won't deal with individual samples from consumers, so our approach was to collect batches that we sent to the lab all at once. The cost adds up quickly because (1) the analytical chemistry done for the testing requires a mass spectrometer, which need constant expert attention and expensive reference standards, (2) urine needs to be mailed frozen, which requires overnight shipping. The program I worked on didn't test for phthalates because IIRC that would require sending the samples through the mass spec a second time, which substantially increases the price. I think it would be possible to bring the price down if you had your own dedicated mass spec and high volume, but it's never going to be cheap. Unfortunately the usefulness of this kind of testing increases the more you can get tested, e.g. before and after a dietary intervention. I think the market for this kind of testing could be large if there was a way to bring the price down, but that probably requires the development of new analytical chemistry techniques.

AstralStorm 7y ago

Do we even know which things are endocrine disruptors, rather than guesses? Even most phthalates are at best mildly associated... I suppose just testing for heavy metals would find most clear cut cases.