6 ms·

Twitter and Google (& YouTube) have systematically removed ISIS content and redirected these people to messages/sites that are designed to disrupt and deprogram

by onyva 7y ago

Twitter and Google (& YouTube) have systematically removed ISIS content and redirected these people to messages/sites that are designed to disrupt and deprogram their ideology. They’ve done this effectively for years. They choose not to apply this approach to white supremacy. https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/1158032847560675328 https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/1158032847560675328

zimpenfish 7y ago
> They choose not to apply this approach to white supremacy. "[...] the measures taken against ISIS were so extreme that, if applied to white supremacy, there would certainly be backlash, because algorithms would obviously flag content that has been tweeted by prominent Republicans—or, at the very least, their supporters." https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-treat-white-supremacy-like-isis-because-it-would-mean-banning-some-republican-politicians-too https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-t...
- kingkawn 7y ago
  White supremacist terrorism cannot be directly ideologically challenged by our present political system in America because it is the founding ideology of the country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    I think this statement is completely wrong and America is on of the most resistant countries against fascism because of its adherence to freedom which fascist really dislike.
    - ElCapitanMarkla 7y ago
      Yeah, the current president loves it because he's free to spew complete lies 24/7.
      - raxxorrax 7y ago
        Maybe. But if you want to curb freedom of speech in the name of minorities, you might be perceived as far more offensive than Trump could ever be. I think that lesson is highly required for Pinky to understand.
    - kingkawn 7y ago
      There is systemic racism everywhere you look; criminal justice system from top to bottom, the job market, school segregation. The political system routinely demonizes foreigners in racist ways that lead to unaccountably brutal and pointless wars, one after another. We are resistant against ‘fascism’ only as the convenient boogeyman of propaganda.
      - raxxorrax 7y ago
        I cannot and don't want to deny the problems you are describing, but if you restrict speech, you are handing these institutions all they need to continue these practices.
        mAEStro-paNDa 7y ago
        >I think this statement is completely wrong then >I cannot and don't want to deny the problems you are describing Not only that, but the parent comment wasn't suggesting restricting speech in any capacity, explicitly or implicitly. Normally I'd ignore a one-off dishonest or misleading comment, but this post has many different comments by you that could be categorized as such.
  - nextmemorandum 7y ago
    Yep, they clearly outlined that the country was meant for only free white men of good character. The United States is for white people, so it is not surprising that some people get upset when other races try to get their own slice of our accomplishments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790
    - throwaway-hn123 7y ago
      LMFAO - troll coward. I'm sorry your father abused you.
  - askvictor 7y ago
    It's seductive argument, but how does that differ from any other colonized country? Australia certainly has white supremacist elements (and undercurrents of racism in the dominant culture), but nothing (I think) of the scale of the US. Do you suggest that it is impossible for a country to change?
    - kingkawn 7y ago
      It is no different, Australia also has fundamentally racist foundation. Anything can change, but not by willful blindness.
  - gspetr 7y ago
    None of the above mentions race. Unless you want to define any territorial conflict between 2 sides as always based on race, when race is only incidental to other differences. The Rwandan genocide was same race, but different ethnicities. By modern standards, the crusades could also be called racist instead of mostly religious in nature.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > The Rwandan genocide was same race, but different ethnicities. The idea that “race” is anything other than a set of broad-focus ethnic labels is itself racist in the narrow sense and “racism” in modern common usage encompasses racial bigotry as well as bigotry based around the perceived significance of the classical races or things labelled “races” distinct from ethnicities by the actors involved; though, often, the actors involved in which bigotry do explicit use the language of race even when talking about groupings that, say, Americans see as “ethnic” as distinct from “racial”, because conceptions of what categories are “races” is quite fluid and usually (including in the model applied by the US government, which is far from globally universal) not limited to the classical Negroid, Mongoloid, and Caucausoid races.
      - gspetr 7y ago
        I agree with your point, but there's also a further nuance, as people can, and often do really stretch the definition as long as it fits their agenda. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cnn-white-hispanic_n_3588744 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cnn-white-hispanic_n_3588744 "CNN is trying its hand at anthropology. In a case that highlights continuing confusion over how to define Latino ethnicity, the television news network has set off a controversy over its continued use of the term “white Hispanic” to describe George Zimmerman, the man whose killing of unarmed, black Florida teenager Trayvon Martin set off a national debate about the persistence and nature of racism."
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        “White Hispanic” (White “race” and Hispanic “ethnicity”) may be controversial and may be an example of someone stretching to fit an agenda, but if so it's the US government and not CNN, as it is the former which has and invented the two axis race plus ethnicity model in which there are a number of big racial groups with subdivisions, but the only ethnicities available are “Not Hispanic/Latino” and “Hispanic/Latino”. Anyone who has ever dealt with government forms collecting race/ethnicity data, including the census, has seen this. HuffPost characterizing this as CNN “trying its hand at anthropology” rather than CNN applying the standard government model is evidence of HuffPost distorting facts to suit an agenda, and not even in a way which stands up to casual scrutiny.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please do not take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - kingkawn 7y ago
      What better venue than among the thoughtful problem-solvers to work through the feelings that are engulfing everyone else in blindness?
      - dang 7y ago
        If that's your intention, ideological battle is not a good way to go about it, because that just leads to more anger and ultimately more blindness.
- yardie 7y ago
  Honestly, they should have done exactly that. Flag their content and ban them. Then go to the capitol. And when some politician asks, "why was I banned?" Tell them honestly, your statements were determined to be extremist by the same algorithm that bans Al Qaeda and ISIS from posting. Then sit back and watch the real fireworks go off. Just because they have a political title does not mean we have to respect anything that comes out of their mouth. Call a spade a spade and be done with them.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    I don't think it is a good idea to replace political discourse with algorithms. You can't just throw up your hands and blame the algorithm when somebody complains to you.
    - dillonmckay 7y ago
      That is already happening, unfortunately.
  - viridian 7y ago
    Seems like the type of thing you'd find in a dystopian YA novel. Remembering back to being a kid, a lot of them have that kind of setup for disenfranchising the ideology the hero/heroine ends up aligning themselves to, and establishing the group of villainous adults. Actually, I think this exact plot point happens in the Dreamfall series.
  - cat199 7y ago
    And what happens to the progressive dems when you cross feed stalin? pot==kettle
  - gurkendoktor 7y ago
    One problem with giving up our principles to own the <other tribe> is that these plans can backfire pretty badly: https://twitter.com/auerbachkeller/status/900376181458911232 https://twitter.com/auerbachkeller/status/900376181458911232 https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/241981/googles-new-hate-speech-algorithm-has-a-problem-with-jews https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/241981/googles-new-hate-spe...
makomk 7y ago
CloudFlare - the service we're talking about here - have consistently chosen not to remove ISIS content. They have taken a very clear stance that is the exact opposite of the one you're describing.
collyw 7y ago
Do people really use Google to try to get to Isis content? I would have thought that was a quick way to get yourself investigated.

by onyva 7y ago

zimpenfish 7y ago

> They choose not to apply this approach to white supremacy. "[...] the measures taken against ISIS were so extreme that, if applied to white supremacy, there would certainly be backlash, because algorithms would obviously flag content that has been tweeted by prominent Republicans—or, at the very least, their supporters." https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-treat-white-supremacy-like-isis-because-it-would-mean-banning-some-republican-politicians-too https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-t...

kingkawn 7y ago
White supremacist terrorism cannot be directly ideologically challenged by our present political system in America because it is the founding ideology of the country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  I think this statement is completely wrong and America is on of the most resistant countries against fascism because of its adherence to freedom which fascist really dislike.
  - ElCapitanMarkla 7y ago
    Yeah, the current president loves it because he's free to spew complete lies 24/7.
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Maybe. But if you want to curb freedom of speech in the name of minorities, you might be perceived as far more offensive than Trump could ever be. I think that lesson is highly required for Pinky to understand.
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    There is systemic racism everywhere you look; criminal justice system from top to bottom, the job market, school segregation. The political system routinely demonizes foreigners in racist ways that lead to unaccountably brutal and pointless wars, one after another. We are resistant against ‘fascism’ only as the convenient boogeyman of propaganda.
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      I cannot and don't want to deny the problems you are describing, but if you restrict speech, you are handing these institutions all they need to continue these practices.
      - mAEStro-paNDa 7y ago
        >I think this statement is completely wrong then >I cannot and don't want to deny the problems you are describing Not only that, but the parent comment wasn't suggesting restricting speech in any capacity, explicitly or implicitly. Normally I'd ignore a one-off dishonest or misleading comment, but this post has many different comments by you that could be categorized as such.
- nextmemorandum 7y ago
  Yep, they clearly outlined that the country was meant for only free white men of good character. The United States is for white people, so it is not surprising that some people get upset when other races try to get their own slice of our accomplishments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790
  - throwaway-hn123 7y ago
    LMFAO - troll coward. I'm sorry your father abused you.
- askvictor 7y ago
  It's seductive argument, but how does that differ from any other colonized country? Australia certainly has white supremacist elements (and undercurrents of racism in the dominant culture), but nothing (I think) of the scale of the US. Do you suggest that it is impossible for a country to change?
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    It is no different, Australia also has fundamentally racist foundation. Anything can change, but not by willful blindness.
- gspetr 7y ago
  None of the above mentions race. Unless you want to define any territorial conflict between 2 sides as always based on race, when race is only incidental to other differences. The Rwandan genocide was same race, but different ethnicities. By modern standards, the crusades could also be called racist instead of mostly religious in nature.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > The Rwandan genocide was same race, but different ethnicities. The idea that “race” is anything other than a set of broad-focus ethnic labels is itself racist in the narrow sense and “racism” in modern common usage encompasses racial bigotry as well as bigotry based around the perceived significance of the classical races or things labelled “races” distinct from ethnicities by the actors involved; though, often, the actors involved in which bigotry do explicit use the language of race even when talking about groupings that, say, Americans see as “ethnic” as distinct from “racial”, because conceptions of what categories are “races” is quite fluid and usually (including in the model applied by the US government, which is far from globally universal) not limited to the classical Negroid, Mongoloid, and Caucausoid races.
    - gspetr 7y ago
      I agree with your point, but there's also a further nuance, as people can, and often do really stretch the definition as long as it fits their agenda. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cnn-white-hispanic_n_3588744 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cnn-white-hispanic_n_3588744 "CNN is trying its hand at anthropology. In a case that highlights continuing confusion over how to define Latino ethnicity, the television news network has set off a controversy over its continued use of the term “white Hispanic” to describe George Zimmerman, the man whose killing of unarmed, black Florida teenager Trayvon Martin set off a national debate about the persistence and nature of racism."
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        “White Hispanic” (White “race” and Hispanic “ethnicity”) may be controversial and may be an example of someone stretching to fit an agenda, but if so it's the US government and not CNN, as it is the former which has and invented the two axis race plus ethnicity model in which there are a number of big racial groups with subdivisions, but the only ethnicities available are “Not Hispanic/Latino” and “Hispanic/Latino”. Anyone who has ever dealt with government forms collecting race/ethnicity data, including the census, has seen this. HuffPost characterizing this as CNN “trying its hand at anthropology” rather than CNN applying the standard government model is evidence of HuffPost distorting facts to suit an agenda, and not even in a way which stands up to casual scrutiny.
- dang 7y ago
  Please do not take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    What better venue than among the thoughtful problem-solvers to work through the feelings that are engulfing everyone else in blindness?
    - dang 7y ago
      If that's your intention, ideological battle is not a good way to go about it, because that just leads to more anger and ultimately more blindness.
yardie 7y ago
Honestly, they should have done exactly that. Flag their content and ban them. Then go to the capitol. And when some politician asks, "why was I banned?" Tell them honestly, your statements were determined to be extremist by the same algorithm that bans Al Qaeda and ISIS from posting. Then sit back and watch the real fireworks go off. Just because they have a political title does not mean we have to respect anything that comes out of their mouth. Call a spade a spade and be done with them.
- adrianN 7y ago
  I don't think it is a good idea to replace political discourse with algorithms. You can't just throw up your hands and blame the algorithm when somebody complains to you.
  - dillonmckay 7y ago
    That is already happening, unfortunately.
- viridian 7y ago
  Seems like the type of thing you'd find in a dystopian YA novel. Remembering back to being a kid, a lot of them have that kind of setup for disenfranchising the ideology the hero/heroine ends up aligning themselves to, and establishing the group of villainous adults. Actually, I think this exact plot point happens in the Dreamfall series.
- cat199 7y ago
  And what happens to the progressive dems when you cross feed stalin? pot==kettle
- gurkendoktor 7y ago
  One problem with giving up our principles to own the <other tribe> is that these plans can backfire pretty badly: https://twitter.com/auerbachkeller/status/900376181458911232 https://twitter.com/auerbachkeller/status/900376181458911232 https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/241981/googles-new-hate-speech-algorithm-has-a-problem-with-jews https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/241981/googles-new-hate-spe...

makomk 7y ago

CloudFlare - the service we're talking about here - have consistently chosen not to remove ISIS content. They have taken a very clear stance that is the exact opposite of the one you're describing.

collyw 7y ago

Do people really use Google to try to get to Isis content? I would have thought that was a quick way to get yourself investigated.