7 ms·

Tor's onion service will always there to provide hosting to the less popular ideas. The censorship-resistant network is there. Make sure to give it some love.

by Iv 7y ago

Tor's onion service will always there to provide hosting to the less popular ideas. The censorship-resistant network is there. Make sure to give it some love. Last time I checked, people were discussing how to murder, exchanging nazi manifestos and conspiracy theories. I was looking for anarchist discussions but I actually ended up having these on reddit. Don't get fooled by the current positioning of IT firms, it only depends on a fistful of people who will transmit their power to their biological offspring, no matter how fucked up they are.

tenpies 7y ago
> I actually ended up having these on reddit I am actually quite surprised how complicit the media is in not reporting what goes on Reddit. It's the one place on the "mainstream" internet I run into where you can see calls for political assassinations in default subs, sub-reddits devoted to theft, ethno-nationalism, terrorism, and all sorts of content that makes 4chan seem tame in comparison. Then there is the huge cross-polination of moderators with radical ideas, who just happen to moderate radical sub-reddits and some prominent default/mainstream sub-reddits. If advertisers only paid attention. If journalists only cared.
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  If reported, Reddit (the company) will usually moderate or shut down subs like those. Recent example being what they just did with /r/T_D.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    True, but it's a lot of work with no reward for the reporters.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      How much work is it? You don't just click "report"? Or send a screenshot of such a forum? (I do not know) And what kind of reward do you expect?
      - anigbrowl 7y ago
        I'm talking about the work to investigate and monitor a forum, gather evidence, and recruit a crowd of people to report it with. I don't know how responsive Reddit is at evaluating any individual report, i don't spend a lot of time on that platform.
  - collyw 7y ago
    I get the impression that Reddit only shuts down right wing leaning Reddits. I hear that there is plenty of calls for violence on left leaning ones such as late stage capitalism.
    - pwinnski 7y ago
      This is false, and perpetuating this falsehood without any direct knowledge ("I hear...") is shameful and unhelpful.
      - manfredo 7y ago
        Its not false. I see plenty of calls to violence from the left on reddit. Some of it is overt, like calling for summary execution of conservatives and religious officials in the same vein as in many communist revolts. Much of the time it's slightly more subtle, like calling for violence against "Nazis" while simultaneously calling large segments of their political opponents "Nazis". Just browse a left leaning subreddit like LateStageCapitalism or even just /r/politics and you'll see calls to violence from the left.
        HappyDreamer 7y ago
        I actually now went to LateStageCapitalism and spent 10? 15? minutes reading topics and comment. I found nothing of the things you mention. (But it was interesting to go there and read.)
        manfredo 7y ago
        It looks like two weeks ago they added a sticky post telling users to stop making calls to violence: https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/cfs3dx/reminder_report_all_posts_and_comments_that?sort=confidence https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/cfs3dx... I guess Reddit finally told them to clean up their act. This sticky was definitely needed. I've seen among other things, a commenter telling people whose family was killed by the Castro regime that their family deserved to be killed, and others calling for the summary killing of anyone in the top 1% of income. Look at some of the highest upvoted posts of the year: https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/9lhjar/capitalism_will_kill_you?sort=confidence https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/9lhjar... Lots of deleted comments. Several root level comments with hundreds of upvotes. LSC cleaning up it's act is pretty recent.
  - erichurkman 7y ago
    It took them _years_ to touch r/t_d despite many reports to the admins about abusive behavior running rampant. In true Reddit form, they only did something after the mainstream forced them to react. (Same problem they had with other questionable groups, like r/shoplifting, got banned after media attention.)
- topologistics 7y ago
  Reddit is an independent subsidiary of Condé Nast's parent company, Advance Publications. They are a large part of what is commonly referred to as "the media." Just sayin.
  - avarun 7y ago
    Conde Nast sold the company back to the founders years ago. Reddit is now once again a VC-backed "startup".
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      Advance Publications, a Conde Nast umbrella, are majority shareholders: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit https://www.advance.com https://www.advance.com
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  Journalists do care but it's hard to get those stories the attention they deserve. To the general public a lot of these discussions seem like a tempest in a teacup, much as many people dismissed climate change and other problematic issues because they seemed too abstract.
ajross 7y ago
The shooters in Poway, Christchurch and El Paso didn't post their screeds via Tor, and weren't radicalized on onion sites. They went to 8chan, because that was more easily understood, widely accessed, and had a larger community. It's the community that matters here, not the technology. The issue isn't whether or not it's possible for two nutjobs to converse in some way, obviously they can. It's whether or not there is a group of nutjobs all feeding on each others' nutjobbery to the point where someone gets radicalized into dangerous behavior.
- partiallypro 7y ago
  Those communities will just be driven underground, more than likely, to Tor sites and be much harder to track. At least once 4Chan and 8Chan are pushed out.
  - amaccuish 7y ago
    Well no one is clearly tracking these people now when they post out in the open on *chan, so I'm not sure whether this is really such a problem.
    - partiallypro 7y ago
      It's pretty obvious that they are, it's hard to track something that's anonymous. It's not like the 80s/90s when these people would congregate in groups and go to parties, etc. This is a new ball game. You also have to consider that *Channers often "shitpost" and 99% of threats aren't even legitimate.
      - amaccuish 7y ago
        If so what's the point in trying if you're going to expend a large amount of effort for relatively little gains. It would surely be better to accept that such forums will always exist but at least make it more difficult for people to accidentally stumble across this stuff.
    - blaser-waffle 7y ago
andygates 7y ago
This isn't about silencing the bad actors, it's about muffling them enough that they don't contaminate daily discourse. Fine: let them be on onion boards. We know de-platforming works.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  You think the situation improved in recent years? Seriously? That aside, I happily muffle the discourse of anyone in favor of deplatforming, since I have seen that used against completely innocent people from some cliques that think they own the place. But don't mind me.
LinuxBender 7y ago
What's missing is the v3 version of tor2web. Currently only v2 is supported. If v3 was supported, people on the clear internet would see more of those sites as well.

by Iv 7y ago

tenpies 7y ago

> I actually ended up having these on reddit I am actually quite surprised how complicit the media is in not reporting what goes on Reddit. It's the one place on the "mainstream" internet I run into where you can see calls for political assassinations in default subs, sub-reddits devoted to theft, ethno-nationalism, terrorism, and all sorts of content that makes 4chan seem tame in comparison. Then there is the huge cross-polination of moderators with radical ideas, who just happen to moderate radical sub-reddits and some prominent default/mainstream sub-reddits. If advertisers only paid attention. If journalists only cared.

ViViDboarder 7y ago
If reported, Reddit (the company) will usually moderate or shut down subs like those. Recent example being what they just did with /r/T_D.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  True, but it's a lot of work with no reward for the reporters.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    How much work is it? You don't just click "report"? Or send a screenshot of such a forum? (I do not know) And what kind of reward do you expect?
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      I'm talking about the work to investigate and monitor a forum, gather evidence, and recruit a crowd of people to report it with. I don't know how responsive Reddit is at evaluating any individual report, i don't spend a lot of time on that platform.
- collyw 7y ago
  I get the impression that Reddit only shuts down right wing leaning Reddits. I hear that there is plenty of calls for violence on left leaning ones such as late stage capitalism.
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    This is false, and perpetuating this falsehood without any direct knowledge ("I hear...") is shameful and unhelpful.
    - manfredo 7y ago
      Its not false. I see plenty of calls to violence from the left on reddit. Some of it is overt, like calling for summary execution of conservatives and religious officials in the same vein as in many communist revolts. Much of the time it's slightly more subtle, like calling for violence against "Nazis" while simultaneously calling large segments of their political opponents "Nazis". Just browse a left leaning subreddit like LateStageCapitalism or even just /r/politics and you'll see calls to violence from the left.
      - HappyDreamer 7y ago
        I actually now went to LateStageCapitalism and spent 10? 15? minutes reading topics and comment. I found nothing of the things you mention. (But it was interesting to go there and read.)
        manfredo 7y ago
        It looks like two weeks ago they added a sticky post telling users to stop making calls to violence: https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/cfs3dx/reminder_report_all_posts_and_comments_that?sort=confidence https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/cfs3dx... I guess Reddit finally told them to clean up their act. This sticky was definitely needed. I've seen among other things, a commenter telling people whose family was killed by the Castro regime that their family deserved to be killed, and others calling for the summary killing of anyone in the top 1% of income. Look at some of the highest upvoted posts of the year: https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/9lhjar/capitalism_will_kill_you?sort=confidence https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/9lhjar... Lots of deleted comments. Several root level comments with hundreds of upvotes. LSC cleaning up it's act is pretty recent.
- erichurkman 7y ago
  It took them _years_ to touch r/t_d despite many reports to the admins about abusive behavior running rampant. In true Reddit form, they only did something after the mainstream forced them to react. (Same problem they had with other questionable groups, like r/shoplifting, got banned after media attention.)
topologistics 7y ago
Reddit is an independent subsidiary of Condé Nast's parent company, Advance Publications. They are a large part of what is commonly referred to as "the media." Just sayin.
- avarun 7y ago
  Conde Nast sold the company back to the founders years ago. Reddit is now once again a VC-backed "startup".
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Advance Publications, a Conde Nast umbrella, are majority shareholders: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit https://www.advance.com https://www.advance.com
anigbrowl 7y ago
Journalists do care but it's hard to get those stories the attention they deserve. To the general public a lot of these discussions seem like a tempest in a teacup, much as many people dismissed climate change and other problematic issues because they seemed too abstract.

ajross 7y ago

The shooters in Poway, Christchurch and El Paso didn't post their screeds via Tor, and weren't radicalized on onion sites. They went to 8chan, because that was more easily understood, widely accessed, and had a larger community. It's the community that matters here, not the technology. The issue isn't whether or not it's possible for two nutjobs to converse in some way, obviously they can. It's whether or not there is a group of nutjobs all feeding on each others' nutjobbery to the point where someone gets radicalized into dangerous behavior.

partiallypro 7y ago
Those communities will just be driven underground, more than likely, to Tor sites and be much harder to track. At least once 4Chan and 8Chan are pushed out.
- amaccuish 7y ago
  Well no one is clearly tracking these people now when they post out in the open on *chan, so I'm not sure whether this is really such a problem.
  - partiallypro 7y ago
    It's pretty obvious that they are, it's hard to track something that's anonymous. It's not like the 80s/90s when these people would congregate in groups and go to parties, etc. This is a new ball game. You also have to consider that *Channers often "shitpost" and 99% of threats aren't even legitimate.
    - amaccuish 7y ago
      If so what's the point in trying if you're going to expend a large amount of effort for relatively little gains. It would surely be better to accept that such forums will always exist but at least make it more difficult for people to accidentally stumble across this stuff.
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago

andygates 7y ago

This isn't about silencing the bad actors, it's about muffling them enough that they don't contaminate daily discourse. Fine: let them be on onion boards. We know de-platforming works.

raxxorrax 7y ago
You think the situation improved in recent years? Seriously? That aside, I happily muffle the discourse of anyone in favor of deplatforming, since I have seen that used against completely innocent people from some cliques that think they own the place. But don't mind me.

LinuxBender 7y ago

What's missing is the v3 version of tor2web. Currently only v2 is supported. If v3 was supported, people on the clear internet would see more of those sites as well.