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> It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. How ironic that you had to post (as of now) 24

by Fnoord 7y ago

> It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. How ironic that you had to post (as of now) 24 times in this very thread defending this condescending viewpoint. You're not at all addressing what the article mentions. I'll address what the article mentions. The article (quite clearly, in bold) mentions, at the top: > The company is currently under investigation by tax authorities in the UK, Sweden and France over alleged transfer pricing irregularities and is is facing a potential bill of over $1.1bn in back taxes and penalties. > In the United States, Activision Blizzard has recently settled a transfer pricing dispute with tax authorities for $345m It appears these steps may very well be not legal. If you deal with your tax in countries such as: > The multinational company has a complex structure with subsidiaries in a number of tax havens including Malta, the Netherlands, Barbados and Bermuda. (Yes, I'm including my own country here.) Then you're appearing to do something shady with regards to tax. You can expect something shady in return. And of course, since they're also using Delaware, it could very well be that they do pay fair (or "fair") tax over their US part. If so, would you argue Americans have no say in this, given that they're not losing out on tax from Activision-Blizzard? There appears to be a lack of political willpower here in The Netherlands to combat this issue. No surprise, given how far right the current leading party (VVD) is. As a result, The Netherlands wins a little bit, but the EU as a whole loses out. Its stupid egoism like this which makes the EU lose on an international scale, akin to Germany allowing the NSA to tap data as long as it wasn't about Germans.

IG_Semmelweiss 7y ago
I dont think you understand very much TP rules. These rules themselves were created by the very people that now attack them. The logic is that any government doesnt get to tax what is not locally sourced. So ok, a game is not created in the UK, and it does not benefit from the HRMC jurisdiction in terms of labor etx. But it generates oodles of cash in sales in the UK. So now they are coming back and saying that, the cost of generating the sales in the UK is higher, not because of some actual physical activity, but simply because their sales are too high. This ia basically a mafia don saying you are doing too good and therefore we must have a larger piece of the pie. Yet the dons themselves are the one that made the rules and made them necessarily obtuse and subjective in order to charge for things (a) that do not create value and (b) keep them employed
hartator 7y ago
Some of us believe digital shouldn’t tax at all. Despite us using electricity. Invalidating all your points.
- chillwaves 7y ago
  What is the argument against taxes on digital goods? How does it differ from a broader argument against taxes?
  - hartator 7y ago
    Why tax something that provides only positive value without using local ressources.
    - orf 7y ago
      Only positive value? That's quite naive.
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      Why not apply that to teachers and doctors etc?
    - julbaxter 7y ago
      Electricity (energy) is a resource.
      - adventured 7y ago
        As is overwhelmingly the telco that delivers those bits to screens/devices. Whether wireless or wired. Very expensive infrastructure in fact, as with electricity (generation, delivery, reliability).
    - coldtea 7y ago
      For one, because we don't tax to "punish" (e.g. use of local resources) or to encourage, but to create a pool of money our governments can use for country-wide works, defense funding, and so on.
TAForObvReasons 7y ago
This effect is not limited to the EU. US suffers a similar problem with the GOP actively trying to shrink the IRS budget, even though it has an incredible ROI (estimated at >$4 for every dollar spent) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/business/economy/irs-tax-fraud-audit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/business/economy/irs-tax-... discusses in further detail
FDSGSG 7y ago
>how ironic I don't think that word means what you think it means. >You're not at all addressing what the article mentions Weird, I think I've addressed pretty much everything your comment brings up. However, I'd like to point out that there's nothing shady about structuring to minimize your tax burden. If the lawmakers didn't want you doing this, they'd simply write laws that don't allow it.

by Fnoord 7y ago

IG_Semmelweiss 7y ago

I dont think you understand very much TP rules. These rules themselves were created by the very people that now attack them. The logic is that any government doesnt get to tax what is not locally sourced. So ok, a game is not created in the UK, and it does not benefit from the HRMC jurisdiction in terms of labor etx. But it generates oodles of cash in sales in the UK. So now they are coming back and saying that, the cost of generating the sales in the UK is higher, not because of some actual physical activity, but simply because their sales are too high. This ia basically a mafia don saying you are doing too good and therefore we must have a larger piece of the pie. Yet the dons themselves are the one that made the rules and made them necessarily obtuse and subjective in order to charge for things (a) that do not create value and (b) keep them employed

hartator 7y ago

Some of us believe digital shouldn’t tax at all. Despite us using electricity. Invalidating all your points.

chillwaves 7y ago
What is the argument against taxes on digital goods? How does it differ from a broader argument against taxes?
- hartator 7y ago
  Why tax something that provides only positive value without using local ressources.
  - orf 7y ago
    Only positive value? That's quite naive.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    Why not apply that to teachers and doctors etc?
  - julbaxter 7y ago
    Electricity (energy) is a resource.
    - adventured 7y ago
      As is overwhelmingly the telco that delivers those bits to screens/devices. Whether wireless or wired. Very expensive infrastructure in fact, as with electricity (generation, delivery, reliability).
  - coldtea 7y ago
    For one, because we don't tax to "punish" (e.g. use of local resources) or to encourage, but to create a pool of money our governments can use for country-wide works, defense funding, and so on.

TAForObvReasons 7y ago

This effect is not limited to the EU. US suffers a similar problem with the GOP actively trying to shrink the IRS budget, even though it has an incredible ROI (estimated at >$4 for every dollar spent) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/business/economy/irs-tax-fraud-audit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/business/economy/irs-tax-... discusses in further detail

FDSGSG 7y ago

>how ironic I don't think that word means what you think it means. >You're not at all addressing what the article mentions Weird, I think I've addressed pretty much everything your comment brings up. However, I'd like to point out that there's nothing shady about structuring to minimize your tax burden. If the lawmakers didn't want you doing this, they'd simply write laws that don't allow it.