8 ms·

"He warned that the decision would go beyond Facebook and effect all social media plug ins, which are important for many firms to expand their reach on the web.

by zorked 7y ago

"He warned that the decision would go beyond Facebook and effect all social media plug ins, which are important for many firms to expand their reach on the web." Add an image on your own website that links to Facebook. Problem solved. You keep your like buttons, their servers are no longer involved in serving your web page.

StavrosK 7y ago
I did this and wrote about it[0]. It works really well, is very fast and doesn't compromise your users' data. There are also libraries that make it very easy to add. [0]: https://www.stavros.io/posts/scourge-web-analytics/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/scourge-web-analytics/
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Does Facebook allow it? Unless you have rights holders permissions then the social links at the bottom of that article look like copyright and probably trademark infringements. (I'm not saying that's a good thing, just how it appears.)
  - buboard 7y ago
    Sure they allow it. The icons are also included in FontAwesome for easier use.
  - kordlessagain 7y ago
    > Does Facebook allow it? Who cares? Facebook is a zero sum game at this point for advertisers/content creators. Facebook stacking the odds like a casino does chuck-a-luck. There's only them winning here, nobody else.
    - hugi 7y ago
      Blocking facebook tracking, meaning comments/like buttons and the like has vastly improved my browsing experience.
    - cat199 7y ago
      perhaps, but if so, they win more when they sue you and you lose...
    - downandout 7y ago
      Who cares? The site owner that might be sued by Facebook for copyright infringement, for starters.
      - Quenty 7y ago
        Aren’t logos fair use? Maybe a like button might be sueable, but a logo should be fine, right?
        megous 7y ago
        And they will be suing for what? For attempting to send more people to facebook? What's the damage? Facebook has no right to have their arbitrary code on other people's websites. So they can't force any specific way to show their button. From the end user's perspective it's all the same.
        downandout 7y ago
        Facebook could reasonably argue that by bypassing their established use policies for the like button, you are depriving them of value - in this case the value of the data that their JavaScript collects and sends back to them, and that you (the site owner) are being unjustly enriched through the use of their copyrighted image(s) on your site. Except in cases of fair use, which isn’t nearly as broad as people think, the use of other parties’ images is subject to whatever licensing restrictions they choose to put on them. You can choose not to display their images if you do not accept those terms.
        saagarjha 7y ago
        I feel like trying to sue someone for linking to Facebook would go down extremely poorly.
        Mirioron 7y ago
        Especially when it's done this way for privacy considerations.
  - jraph 7y ago
    I'd bet it falls under fair use: https://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/Fair-Use-of-TrademarksNL.aspx https://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/Fair-U... By the way, this website does exactly that.
    - jhall1468 7y ago
      Fair use is a defense. You, at best, get sued, have to pay a ton of money in attorneys fees, on the chance that you "bet" it's going to work. Tough sell.
      - FDSGSG 7y ago
        Why would Facebook sue over this?
        RHSeeger 7y ago
        Because they want the data their button+js gets for them, and if they let you get away with not using the js, then anyone can get away with it. Better to shut it down early and painfully.
  - Zak 7y ago
    Yes. https://en.facebookbrand.com/ https://en.facebookbrand.com/
  - weinzierl 7y ago
    It's against Facebook's terms: > 8. You must not use or make derivative use of Facebook icons, or use terms for Facebook features and functionality, if such use could confuse users into thinking that the reference is to Facebook features or functionality. We know that Facebook uses that paragraph against alternative like buttons. Many years ago German computer magazine publisher Heise created a version of the like button that works like this: The button is initially greyed out and has to be activated by a slide button to be used. Communication with Facebook's servers starts only when the button is activated. After threats from Facebook Heise had to change the look of the initial button so that is has none of the Facebook branding. Only the dynamically loaded original Facebook button looks like Facebook like button. [1] Link to the original alternative like button project in German is [2]. An fork with English documentation is [3]. EDIT: Their current branding guidelines for the "thumb icon" [4] say: > Do link the Thumb Icon directly to your Page on Facebook when using the Thumb Icon online. So a thumb icon linking to your page should be OK. EDIT 2: The branding guideline also says: > Don't use an outlined thumb with the cuff detached. So you can use the "Thumb Icon" but not in a way that replicates the current original Facebook like button because that one is outlined and has the cuff detached. BTW this is exactly what Privacy Badger does: It replaces the original Facebook Like Button (cuff detached) with the thumb icon from the official assets (cuff connected). [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/german-website-creates-two-click-like-button-facebook-not-amused/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/german-website-creates-two-cli... [2] https://www.heise.de/extras/socialshareprivacy/ https://www.heise.de/extras/socialshareprivacy/ [3] https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy [4] https://en.facebookbrand.com/assets/thumb-icon/?audience=landing https://en.facebookbrand.com/assets/thumb-icon/?audience=lan...
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      >> 8. You must not use or make derivative use of Facebook icons, or use terms for Facebook features and functionality, if such use could confuse users into thinking that the reference is to Facebook features or functionality. > We know that Facebook uses that paragraph against alternative like buttons. Did you quote the wrong section? That term can't really apply to alternative "like us on Facebook" buttons, because such a button can't confuse users into thinking it refers to Facebook features or functionality, because it actually does refer to Facebook features and functionality.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  I really like that if it's just a simple <a href>, I can completely understand what it does and the code is very short.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Yes, and there's no loss of functionality, you can still share/Tweet/whatever. Really makes you think about what exactly all that extra JS the real button loads is doing.
    - munchbunny 7y ago
      If you're not asking rhetorically, all of the extra stuff is a delivery vehicle for Facebook/etc. tracking code.
      - JasonFruit 7y ago
        They didn't ask; they said it makes you think about it.
    - ec109685 7y ago
      Facebook at least used to tell the user if any friends also liked something, as well as tell them whether they had liked the page already. Not sure if FB still supports that, and where I work, we have used static buttons since forever.
- EGreg 7y ago
  Yes indeed! Thanks for that and your lightentheweb resource! May I reach to you (from qbix.com) as we are building a new social operating system for the web?
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Sure! My email is in my profile.
- daxterspeed 7y ago
  Note that by not setting rel="noopener noreferrer" on the links you let the linked sites control the opener window (and of course see a detailed referrer header). https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-underestimated-vulnerability-ever/ https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-u... (This applies to more than just target="_blank")
  - yzmtf2008 7y ago
    If the link is for users to click and like this page on Facebook, then Facebook will be able to know the source URL regardless, no?
    - daxterspeed 7y ago
      Well if the referrer header matches the shared url it's just bloat in the request headers, and if it doesn't it's possibly leaking details it shouldn't, like perhaps a token in a query parameter. Twitter, Facebook, etc doesn't really need to know where a user initiated a share anyway. Either way making sure that window.opener isn't available to random sites is a critical security feature and in some browsers that require you to set noreferrer, so better safe than sorry.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    You are correct, fixed, thank you. It's a shame this isn't the default on all links.
    - _delirium 7y ago
      For the case of opening in a new tab, consensus seems to be moving to making it default, though that's not true everywhere yet. It's currently default on Safari and Firefox. Closed (fixed) Firefox bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503681 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503681 Open Chromium bug: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=898942 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=898942
- kitchenkarma 7y ago
  Shouldn't you also show intermediate page with a privacy warning and a cancel / continue buttons? Otherwise user can click it by mistake and compromise his data.
germanier 7y ago
This somewhat more fancy implementation of that idea is used on many German websites: https://github.com/heiseonline/shariff https://github.com/heiseonline/shariff or https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy
giancarlostoro 7y ago
I know I am part of the HN bubble but I have not used any of those buttons if ever in years. I wonder how many legit use the buttons vs how many copy and paste a link and it shows up under those metrics somehow? Guessing I am part of the weird bubble.
- wmeredith 7y ago
  I’d guess the number of users that copy and paste a link to share it is statistically is insignificant considering that many modern browsers don’t even display URLs in the header anymore.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    All my Firefox browsers do with the exception of the one on my phone and only cause I changed it to show when I scroll back up to save on screen real estate. Its all configurable. Heck... When people press F11 accidentally they start calling all their kids, nephews and grandkids all scared and confused. Because without that address bar that tech people seem to think normal users dont use they lose their ability to reason about the web. It will wind up similar to the missing start button on Windows. Disclaimer: I worked at a local college and had to support students in CS and other Microsoft Office courses. They lost it whenever Microsoft took away the start button but I would tell people its still on your keyboard... Anyway also saw a lot of F11 people losing it.
  - devit 7y ago
    Mobile browser generally have a "share" functionality that can share anything to Facebook or any app that supports that easily, so that's what people would be using rather than copy and paste.
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      I wish I could remove this "share" button. It's unintuitive and a waste of space.
      - 7y ago
tracker1 7y ago
The last public site I worked on, did this for all the social links... was the easiest way to keep it normalized. I didn't want to use their images, etc anyway.
hanspeter 7y ago
Are you not aware of the difference between a like button and a share button? If you are, I would very much like to hear how you are able to get a like from linking an image to Facebook.

by zorked 7y ago

StavrosK 7y ago

I did this and wrote about it[0]. It works really well, is very fast and doesn't compromise your users' data. There are also libraries that make it very easy to add. [0]: https://www.stavros.io/posts/scourge-web-analytics/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/scourge-web-analytics/

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Does Facebook allow it? Unless you have rights holders permissions then the social links at the bottom of that article look like copyright and probably trademark infringements. (I'm not saying that's a good thing, just how it appears.)
- buboard 7y ago
  Sure they allow it. The icons are also included in FontAwesome for easier use.
- kordlessagain 7y ago
  > Does Facebook allow it? Who cares? Facebook is a zero sum game at this point for advertisers/content creators. Facebook stacking the odds like a casino does chuck-a-luck. There's only them winning here, nobody else.
  - hugi 7y ago
    Blocking facebook tracking, meaning comments/like buttons and the like has vastly improved my browsing experience.
  - cat199 7y ago
    perhaps, but if so, they win more when they sue you and you lose...
  - downandout 7y ago
    Who cares? The site owner that might be sued by Facebook for copyright infringement, for starters.
    - Quenty 7y ago
      Aren’t logos fair use? Maybe a like button might be sueable, but a logo should be fine, right?
      - megous 7y ago
        And they will be suing for what? For attempting to send more people to facebook? What's the damage? Facebook has no right to have their arbitrary code on other people's websites. So they can't force any specific way to show their button. From the end user's perspective it's all the same.
        downandout 7y ago
        Facebook could reasonably argue that by bypassing their established use policies for the like button, you are depriving them of value - in this case the value of the data that their JavaScript collects and sends back to them, and that you (the site owner) are being unjustly enriched through the use of their copyrighted image(s) on your site. Except in cases of fair use, which isn’t nearly as broad as people think, the use of other parties’ images is subject to whatever licensing restrictions they choose to put on them. You can choose not to display their images if you do not accept those terms.
        saagarjha 7y ago
        I feel like trying to sue someone for linking to Facebook would go down extremely poorly.
        Mirioron 7y ago
        Especially when it's done this way for privacy considerations.
- jraph 7y ago
  I'd bet it falls under fair use: https://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/Fair-Use-of-TrademarksNL.aspx https://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/Fair-U... By the way, this website does exactly that.
  - jhall1468 7y ago
    Fair use is a defense. You, at best, get sued, have to pay a ton of money in attorneys fees, on the chance that you "bet" it's going to work. Tough sell.
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      Why would Facebook sue over this?
      - RHSeeger 7y ago
        Because they want the data their button+js gets for them, and if they let you get away with not using the js, then anyone can get away with it. Better to shut it down early and painfully.
- Zak 7y ago
  Yes. https://en.facebookbrand.com/ https://en.facebookbrand.com/
- weinzierl 7y ago
  It's against Facebook's terms: > 8. You must not use or make derivative use of Facebook icons, or use terms for Facebook features and functionality, if such use could confuse users into thinking that the reference is to Facebook features or functionality. We know that Facebook uses that paragraph against alternative like buttons. Many years ago German computer magazine publisher Heise created a version of the like button that works like this: The button is initially greyed out and has to be activated by a slide button to be used. Communication with Facebook's servers starts only when the button is activated. After threats from Facebook Heise had to change the look of the initial button so that is has none of the Facebook branding. Only the dynamically loaded original Facebook button looks like Facebook like button. [1] Link to the original alternative like button project in German is [2]. An fork with English documentation is [3]. EDIT: Their current branding guidelines for the "thumb icon" [4] say: > Do link the Thumb Icon directly to your Page on Facebook when using the Thumb Icon online. So a thumb icon linking to your page should be OK. EDIT 2: The branding guideline also says: > Don't use an outlined thumb with the cuff detached. So you can use the "Thumb Icon" but not in a way that replicates the current original Facebook like button because that one is outlined and has the cuff detached. BTW this is exactly what Privacy Badger does: It replaces the original Facebook Like Button (cuff detached) with the thumb icon from the official assets (cuff connected). [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/german-website-creates-two-click-like-button-facebook-not-amused/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/german-website-creates-two-cli... [2] https://www.heise.de/extras/socialshareprivacy/ https://www.heise.de/extras/socialshareprivacy/ [3] https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy [4] https://en.facebookbrand.com/assets/thumb-icon/?audience=landing https://en.facebookbrand.com/assets/thumb-icon/?audience=lan...
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    >> 8. You must not use or make derivative use of Facebook icons, or use terms for Facebook features and functionality, if such use could confuse users into thinking that the reference is to Facebook features or functionality. > We know that Facebook uses that paragraph against alternative like buttons. Did you quote the wrong section? That term can't really apply to alternative "like us on Facebook" buttons, because such a button can't confuse users into thinking it refers to Facebook features or functionality, because it actually does refer to Facebook features and functionality.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
I really like that if it's just a simple <a href>, I can completely understand what it does and the code is very short.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Yes, and there's no loss of functionality, you can still share/Tweet/whatever. Really makes you think about what exactly all that extra JS the real button loads is doing.
  - munchbunny 7y ago
    If you're not asking rhetorically, all of the extra stuff is a delivery vehicle for Facebook/etc. tracking code.
    - JasonFruit 7y ago
      They didn't ask; they said it makes you think about it.
  - ec109685 7y ago
    Facebook at least used to tell the user if any friends also liked something, as well as tell them whether they had liked the page already. Not sure if FB still supports that, and where I work, we have used static buttons since forever.
EGreg 7y ago
Yes indeed! Thanks for that and your lightentheweb resource! May I reach to you (from qbix.com) as we are building a new social operating system for the web?
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Sure! My email is in my profile.
daxterspeed 7y ago
Note that by not setting rel="noopener noreferrer" on the links you let the linked sites control the opener window (and of course see a detailed referrer header). https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-underestimated-vulnerability-ever/ https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-u... (This applies to more than just target="_blank")
- yzmtf2008 7y ago
  If the link is for users to click and like this page on Facebook, then Facebook will be able to know the source URL regardless, no?
  - daxterspeed 7y ago
    Well if the referrer header matches the shared url it's just bloat in the request headers, and if it doesn't it's possibly leaking details it shouldn't, like perhaps a token in a query parameter. Twitter, Facebook, etc doesn't really need to know where a user initiated a share anyway. Either way making sure that window.opener isn't available to random sites is a critical security feature and in some browsers that require you to set noreferrer, so better safe than sorry.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  You are correct, fixed, thank you. It's a shame this isn't the default on all links.
  - _delirium 7y ago
    For the case of opening in a new tab, consensus seems to be moving to making it default, though that's not true everywhere yet. It's currently default on Safari and Firefox. Closed (fixed) Firefox bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503681 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1503681 Open Chromium bug: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=898942 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=898942
kitchenkarma 7y ago
Shouldn't you also show intermediate page with a privacy warning and a cancel / continue buttons? Otherwise user can click it by mistake and compromise his data.

germanier 7y ago

This somewhat more fancy implementation of that idea is used on many German websites: https://github.com/heiseonline/shariff https://github.com/heiseonline/shariff or https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy https://github.com/panzi/SocialSharePrivacy

giancarlostoro 7y ago

I know I am part of the HN bubble but I have not used any of those buttons if ever in years. I wonder how many legit use the buttons vs how many copy and paste a link and it shows up under those metrics somehow? Guessing I am part of the weird bubble.

wmeredith 7y ago
I’d guess the number of users that copy and paste a link to share it is statistically is insignificant considering that many modern browsers don’t even display URLs in the header anymore.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  All my Firefox browsers do with the exception of the one on my phone and only cause I changed it to show when I scroll back up to save on screen real estate. Its all configurable. Heck... When people press F11 accidentally they start calling all their kids, nephews and grandkids all scared and confused. Because without that address bar that tech people seem to think normal users dont use they lose their ability to reason about the web. It will wind up similar to the missing start button on Windows. Disclaimer: I worked at a local college and had to support students in CS and other Microsoft Office courses. They lost it whenever Microsoft took away the start button but I would tell people its still on your keyboard... Anyway also saw a lot of F11 people losing it.
- devit 7y ago
  Mobile browser generally have a "share" functionality that can share anything to Facebook or any app that supports that easily, so that's what people would be using rather than copy and paste.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    I wish I could remove this "share" button. It's unintuitive and a waste of space.
    - 7y ago

tracker1 7y ago

The last public site I worked on, did this for all the social links... was the easiest way to keep it normalized. I didn't want to use their images, etc anyway.

hanspeter 7y ago

Are you not aware of the difference between a like button and a share button? If you are, I would very much like to hear how you are able to get a like from linking an image to Facebook.