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Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease
- buttcoinslol 7y agoThey likely got a bad batch of THC cartridges, there's a ton of black market ones going around all over, with who knows what in them. Millions of people use nicotine vaporizers daily with no ill effects.
- leggomylibro 7y agoYeah, a local cluster of ~8-20 cases and the patients say they were using 'THC' cartridges in a state where it's illegal? People were putting synthetic cannabinoids in e-juice over a decade ago, and I'd be surprised if there wasn't still a market for it. I'd also be surprised if the actual chemicals being used haven't evolved to keep up with regulations - at this point they'd probably be dozens of analogues away from what was presented in the original Huffman papers, huh? I think it's probably a very bad idea to knowingly use that sort of thing, but I guess the underground market might not have very well-regulated labeling standards.
- JamesBarney 7y agoYeah the clustering makes me think they got a tainted cartridge as opposed to it being an inherent risk of vaping.
- buttcoinslol 7y agoYes, from own experiences, the cheap carts [dank/mario cart] which are black market only labels use thc analogues while the ones that make it here that are sold in dispensaries are generally legit [rove/tko] From what I've read about opiate analogues, whatever thc analogues they're using ~15 years after the Huffman paper are far removed from their original state. I can also confirm there is a tremendous demand for thc carts in non-legal states.
- SynthCann 7y agoVery interesting to see JWH discussed on HN. This stuff was BIGGG about a decade ago, and then I stopped hearing about it. It's crazy to see they are still playing the game of cat and mouse with these analogues, and even getting them into the black market carts. I have medical so thankfully I don't need to mess with the black market at this point. I would _highly_ advise against using any synthetic cannabinoids.
- tempguy9999 7y ago> I would _highly_ advise against using any synthetic cannabinoids. Any specific reasons to say this? Medical knowledge, personal experience or other? I did have one experience with a synthetic cannabinoid and it was very bad indeed, took me days to recover. FYI. I'd not rule out trying it again but with great care. Though now it's illegal in the UK, so prob won't happen.
- sterlind 7y agoI remember there being a number of deaths from some cannabinoids, but after doing some research I can't confirm. This is what I found: AMB-FUBINACA caused a "zombie outbreak" which sent 33 people to the hospital in Brooklyn: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/nyregion/zombielike-state-was-caused-by-synthetic-marijuana.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/nyregion/zombielike-state... Anecdotally, AM-2201 seems to cause enlarged liver and other health problems with long-term use: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95702 https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95702 I remember CP-55,940 and WIN-55,212 having serious side effects but I couldn't find information..
- tempguy9999 7y agoComprehensive answer. I particularly appreciate you made it clear what you couldn't verify, or what was anecdotal. I wish I could upvote it twice for that alone.
- SargeZT 7y ago
- doctorpangloss 7y ago> Millions of people use nicotine vaporizers daily with no ill effects. The movement against tobacco hasn't failed, but it is in the trough of its cycle.
- Hasknewbie 7y agoA recent study here in Europe as found that some low-quality CBD e-liquids contain traces of solvent (used to extract said CBD) that are above safety level and may trigger adverse reaction in vapers. I assume THC e-liquid goes through the same sort of process and may have the same issue.
- tapland 7y agoI would love it if you had a link to that study. A relative of mine is on the lookout for CBD oils and I said I'd help find what there is.
- Hasknewbie 7y agoI don't have a direct link to the study, but this is from the BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48950483 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48950483): "The researchers also found the presence in seven products of the solvent dichloromethane, which can cause wheezing and shortness of breath, at levels above food safety limits."
- Scoundreller 7y agoAre food safety limits the appropriate limit for something that will be largely exhaled?
- buttcoinslol 7y agoYes, residual solvents are possible with the THC extraction process. I prefer to use THC concentrates extracted with CO2 to avoid inhaling residual solvents.
- robocat 7y agoCan you tell only CO2 was used?
- whenchamenia 7y agoCo2 iirc is a physical extraction, like bubble hash, while this is concerning solvent hash, a different product. The correct way to extract solvents is under vacuum.
- scruple 7y agoThere's an Instagram user who independently tests, meaning he pays to have an independent lab test the samples, (THC) carts for pesticides and solvents and posts the results for all to see. He's a hero, as far as I'm concerned. There's so much shit in these cartridges. They are concentrated, so pesticides used during growth can also be concentrated in the cartridges. It's completely absurd to me that this stuff isn't more regulated.
- brokenmachine 7y ago100% agree but every time anyone comments that vaping should be regulated, the wolves come out shouting at the top of their lungs how safe vaping is, and how much better vaping is than smoking, and saying that you're basically forcing people to keep smoking by doing anything to regulate vaping.
- hprotagonist 7y agoNote that the black vape on the right in the photo is very much unlike the other two. It’s a dry herb cannabis vaporizer —- oddly, one of the very few that’s a certified medical device. (it’s a storz and bickel crafty) There’s a vast difference between concentrate/ejuice/distillate vapes and something like a crafty. It would be nice if the two categories of vapes could be separated more cleanly when discussing health effects because it would separate a lot of the variables.
- SynthCann 7y agoYes, flower vapes are not even in the same realm. What do you expect from 'Gizmodo', though? Surprised this isn't a banned source. Have people forgot Gawker so quickly?
- turndown 7y agoIIRC the crafty itself is not medically certified but S&B at one time did have a medically certified version.
- hprotagonist 7y agothey sell separately coded crafty/mighty/volcano. They hit slightly lower max temperatures, and you can claim them as medical devices; they’re otherwise identical to their non medical counterparts. S&B makes awesome gear; i just prefer on-demand.
- Quanttek 7y agoAgreed but I wouldn't try to infer from a stock photo to the substance of the story. The vast majority of vapes used, especially those by young adults and teens, are not black vapes.
- mattmanser 7y agoIt clearly says in the story they had all vaped 'THC', AKA a catch all term these days for dodgy shit. More than likely, given how this hasn't happened in the rest of the WORLD, they vaped something extremely dodgy that they knew was dodgy. if you need me to spell this out for you, this has NOTHING to do with vaping and everything to do with dodgy drug dealers.
- swebs 7y agoIs there a better source than Gizmodo? It's basically a tabloid
- martey 7y agoThe very first link in the article is the original source - a press release from Wisconsin's Department of Health: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/news/releases/080219.htm https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/news/releases/080219.htm
- exogeny 7y agoI sort of hate these articles, because the comments always boil down to three main categories: 1. I vape and this hasn’t happened to me, therefore I’m an expert on public health policy 2. I vape and because it’s better than cigarettes, it’s safe on those terms alone 3. What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe You’re either irrationally defensive (1, 2) because you feel attacked, or you’re a smug dick (3) that trivializes addiction.
- agumonkey 7y agoon my side it's mostly that studies only cover a few kind of liquids.. and still no regulation came out to only sell safe ones.
- adtac 7y ago>What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe I don't see anything wrong with the second part of that statement. Of course, the first part comes across as being an pretentious twat, but it's important to remind people who actually believe vapes are perfectly safe and can do no harm.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 7y agoMitigating risk is what it is all about. Methadone is less risky than Heroin, which is why you can get a prescription for the one at a drug treatment facility but not the other.
- dahfizz 7y ago> which is why you can get a prescription for the one And you can't buy either at a corner store. Methdone > heroin and vaping > cigarettes but we still should not encourage vaping. It is dangerous and we should treat it as such.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 7y agoSo is drinking alcohol, but you don’t see stop drinking commercials on TV.
- Havoc 7y agomeh. Inhaling a bunch of chemicals was always gonna be a roll of the dice. Better question is whether it's more dangerous than smokes cause people will want their nicotine fix one way or the other
- badrabbit 7y agoSo, I am just trying to understand how it's worse than caffeine. I vape but I simply don't get how bad it is compared to the normal smog and other impure air we breathe. Nicotine aside,what makes vaping risky? Like are there specific chemical substances? When i starter it I assumed it was nictone,water vapor and flavorings which have no known side effects on the lung.
- noja 7y agoWhat do the ingredients on your packet say?
- buttcoinslol 7y agoVegetable Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Natural and Artificial Flavorings, Nicotine
- brokenmachine 7y agoNatural lung disease flavor. Seriously, could they be any more vague than "Natural and Artificial flavorings?"
- badrabbit 7y agoVegetable glycerin,propylene glycol,flavors,nicotine. There is also a "state of california" warning about possible exposure to formaldehyde. Can't they test this on rats and monkeys easily to see if there is an obvious side effect? Or maybe they have and the results are inconclusive?
- ves 7y agoa while back there was a scare that some vapes had lots of tiny metal particles in their vapor, which would be really really bad for you. Dunno what the resolution to that was, but it’s probably worth following up on.
- jdietrich 7y agoThe concentration of metals found in that study were below the legal limits for inhalational medicines. The type of vaping device studied was something called a "cartomizer" of a design which is now broadly obsolete; these cartomizers feature heating elements with solder joints which remain immersed in the e-liquid solution, whereas more modern devices generally use a heating element comprising a single piece of stainless steel. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0057987 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
- systematical 7y agoIs their research on people who have ONLY vaped? Most people who vape are former/current smokers. For me, I vape when not drinking and smoke cigarettes when drinking. This means I smoke about 2-3 packs a month, the rest is vape. It's harm reduction for me and allows me to still perform at a reasonable cardio level in beer leagues. Now my evidence is shotty, but my lungs "feel" better and I have a noticeable improvement in cardio when I haven't touch a cigarette in a few days and have just been vaping. My ability to stay on the ice (I play hockey) is noticeably better. I don't start getting really tired until the third period, whereas with cigarettes I am dead by the second period.
- perlpimp 7y agoI've quit smoking and drinking, work out 5 times a week and run once or twice a day. Vape has allowed me to loose 12kg and quit drinking and smoking. If you're gonna say that it might just irritate my lungs a little more than walking about the street at the o'smog hour on hottest summer day then be it.
- mkl 7y agoThis reasoning seems pretty strange to me. Why not quit entirely?
- function_seven 7y agoBecause it's really difficult to do so. That might not be a valid "why" in some people's eyes, but it's the reason smokers switch to vaping. They've tried to quit entirely, and have failed to do so many times. Then this new nicotine delivery method comes along, smokers try it, and find it an acceptable substitute. The "they" above is me. I switched a couple years ago and have had nothing but improvement in my health. My stamina is better, my chronic cough went away, and I don't hear that faint whistle when I breath in. I'm sure if and when I give up nicotine completely, I'll feel better still. But right now I'm taking this partial win.
- oliveshell 7y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PCCF1bX-a4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PCCF1bX-a4 (For those who can't listen to this right now, it's a short Mitchell and Webb radio sketch that humorously illustrates that it's quite difficult to stop an addiction simply because you know it'd be good for you.)
- patientplatypus 7y agoThis is what happens when you make the drugs that have been safe for years illegal. People who make marijuana illegal don't care about children - they would rather have a few die as a moralistic lesson to others than allow anyone to get high. Because they're assholes. Full stop.
- Proven 7y agoHaha that is such bullshit
- kortilla 7y ago10 people go blind drinking moonshine, Wisconsin officials urge people to stop drinking. Wtf is wrong with them giving this overreaction after a cluster of bad cases of people who smoked “THC” juice.
- SUSANTREVINO20 7y agoFour years ago I experienced a severe breathing problems. A year later, it worsened and I was diagnosed of COPD. I came across Herbal HealthPoint (ww w. herbalhealthpoint. c om) December, 2018 and learnt about their successful herbal therapy for COPD. I immediately started on the COPD treatment; i began to notice a reduction in symptoms till it all vanished. I feel better and breath better. I Just wanted to share for people suffering from this horrible lungs disease.