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I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up
by mgamache 7y ago
I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?
- wmeredith 7y agoIANAL but acts of civil disobedience usually mean that you refuse to do something peacefully. I’m not sure that there’s a way to passively disarm something.
- quickthrower2 7y agoWith umbrellas and parasols. Everyone should walk around with an umbrella to make the surveillance useless. Parasols on your balcony or in your garden.
- ThrustVectoring 7y agoThat doesn't make the surveillance useless. So they see a parasol come out of your house at one time and walk to your workplace. They still have 100% of the information that they had if you didn't walk to work with a parasol.
- thinkingemote 7y agoPeople are clever and adaptable. How about walking in a crowd and exchanging umbrellas for one simple idea and I've not even had my first coffee of the day.
- nxpnsv 7y agoFinally a project for my purchased and forgotten raspberry pi and robot parts - dronebrella.
- mgamache 7y agoYou are correct. What's the term for a minimally violent act?
- whiddershins 7y agoCivil disobedience
- disinclination 7y agoDirect action.
- 20after4 7y agoSabotage
- anigbrowl 7y agoHigh power laser on a technical vehicle.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mirimir 7y agoLasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.
- anigbrowl 7y agoAtmospheric scattering seems like a big problem, but not location or targeting. People find satellites by doing long exposures (ideally in the infrared) and then looking for movement that doesn't match the rotation of the earth - indeed, I think it's quasi-automated by now. It's rather astonishing what you can pick up with modern glass - there's videos on YouTube of the space station shot from the ground, and while it just looks like a little squiggly letter H, it's the freaking space station, in space, being imaged on relatively affordable prosumer technology. I know nothing about the power side of lasers and imagine you'd need a decent size truck to hold one capable of setting something on fire at distance and its power supply, but it doesn't seem beyond the bounds of feasibility. Of course, it would be 'easier' to hijack the balloon's guidance system but I assume that about 5 minutes after you started broadcasting on restricted radio frequencies people would be looking for you.
- mirimir 7y agoOK. But small balloons at 15-20 km? That don't reflect much light? Seems iffy to me. But maybe so. I wasn't thinking of massive physical damage. Just nuking the FPAs. Or perhaps small rockets. But guidance systems are hugely illegal to develop. Chaff might work to mask movements temporarily. Or wildfires, I suppose. Not that anyone sane would do that.
- mgamache 7y ago"guidance systems are hugely illegal to develop" Curious what laws cover this? I am sure they exist, just not explored this at all. Isn't GPS a 'guidance system'?
- mgamache 7y agoTotal novice here, but a drone locked onto the balloon transponder? You could pre-program the drone hours or days in advance. Use all 3D printed parts with reclaimed batteries? Assembled in a clean room? (just a thought experiment)
- maze-le 7y agoUnless it is a jet-powered drone, it won't reach the altitude. Rotors stop creating uplift at some height, because the air to create uplift is far too thin. And if you are able to build a jet-engine -- well you could basically call it a guided missile system. You'd need a launch facility, lots and lots of fuel and you'd be detected by ATC once you launch (if you haven't already been detected procuring resources to build the thing).
- MayeulC 7y agoThe conclusion is easy, then: you should probably use a balloon (/dirigible) to take down the balloon.
- jlgaddis 7y agoAt 65,000 feet, I don't think you do.
- ip26 7y agoThe point of civil disobedience (often) is to wind up in jail. Civil disobedience doesn't mean "no consequences", it means enduring the consequences as a form of protest to illustrate how absurd they are.
- Tharkun 7y agoThat might be a consequence of civil disobedience, but it's certainly not the point of it. The point is to expose, condem & ultimately change a wayward government's shitty behaviour.
- slim 7y agocivil disobedience would be to down a max of balloons before getting caught, preferably never get caught
- debatem1 7y agoThis reminds me a bit of the "Harriet Tubman Sarah Connor brigade" (actual name). They were opposed to GPS satellites and knew they couldn't get them after they went up... so they successfully attacked them while they were on the ground (prelaunch) with wood axes. Did quite a bit of damage too. https://theatlantic.com/article/386656/ https://theatlantic.com/article/386656/
- mgamache 7y agoAre you comparing the surveillance balloons to GPS or are you saying it's best to disable before launch?
- debatem1 7y agoI'm not sure I would say "best", but tactically it's a lot better play to destroy a thing on the ground with an axe than develop whatever high-powered laser was being discussed elsewhere on the thread.
- inflatableDodo 7y agoGiven their flight ceiling is up to 65,000ft, they are quite a bit lower than Felix Baumgartner's record breaking jump, so I guess you could try skydiving into one.
- slim 7y agomaybe concentrated solar light could burn them
- slim 7y agonah, that's stupid given the distance
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Nec28 7y agoUsing drones could work I guess?
- rasz 7y agoMovies Contact and Arrival had few good ideas.