8 ms·

People only get the EdD because it's required to be a superintendent in most places. I'm scraping by on a part time higher ed gig, and it's just depressing how

People only get the EdD because it's required to be a superintendent in most places. I'm scraping by on a part time higher ed gig, and it's just depressing how the full time staff just see degrees as an obstacle to getting a raise not a path to growth and learning. The average American already thinks higher ed is a scam. At least the people who work in it could try to believe in their own product, but even they don't.

linuxftw 7y ago
This is a symptom they believe they're under paid. Plus, you don't need an advanced 'degree' to learn much of anything anymore. The wealth of human knowledge that is available online, for free, is astounding.
- povertyworld 7y ago
  As someone who has worked in higher ed, part of the degree requirements are to reduce corruption. Otherwise low tier state schools and community colleges would just be packed with the top administrator's buddies. Requiring a doctorate at least means you can't give the job to your pal Joey from Bayonne or whatever. Well, you still can, but he has to grind a mail order doctorate first.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    State-level certification exams would fix this. You either pass the exam, or you don't, doesn't matter how you acquired the knowledge.
    - povertyworld 7y ago
      But then people will just memorize for the test. We've all seen the IT guys who crammed for some certification, but don't know anything.
      - rootusrootus 7y ago
        That is a problem with particular certification exams, not insurmountable at all. E.g. memorizing brain dumps for Microsoft MSCE is one thing, but that trick does not work for the CCIE.
        barbecue_sauce 7y ago
        Is the CCIE one of the "hands on" exams, like the Red Hat and Kubernetes exams?
        rootusrootus 7y ago
        I have less familiarity with the Red Hat and Kubernetes exams, but yes -- the CCIE is a lab exam. Started out at two days but IIRC it is currently at one full eight-hour day in the lab. We have a few CCIEs where I work and the amount of studying to earn the certification is phenominal. The overall pass rate is about roughly 25%, which is notably low.
      - linuxftw 7y ago
        I imagine that if you're cramming for a test on how to do differential equations, and you're able to pass that test, you actually know how to solve differential equations. "IT People" cramming for tests and memorizing the test for those certifications is a testament to the failure of those certifications, not for certifications in general.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - pkaye 7y ago
        I've done the California "Fundamentals of Engineering" Civil Engineering exam long time ago and it was no joke. Its been a while but I think they let you bring reference books or gave you one. You really had to know your stuff because you had no time to look at the reference material.
      - coldtea 7y ago
    - RaptorJ 7y ago
      The Progressive Case for the Qing Imperial Confucian Civil Service Exam
    - sansnomme 7y ago
      This needs to be done for Law, Medicine and Engineering degrees. Remove the power and higher ed institutional oligopoly. In a lot of places it's regulated by "professional associations", "councils", "boards" etc. that are a horrible cross between a union and a regulatory authority. Usually due to being the first mover or through lobbying or a bit of both. They can restrict school intake numbers, set legally significant policies across the industry, dispense judgement for malpractice, sometimes even whether to allow building a new institution or not. You don't hear much about them as compared to unions because they somehow acquired regulatory powers and a fair bit of upper middle class run in their circles but they are not exactly part of the State executive/legislative hierarchy either. It's popular to complain about "cultural problems" in hospitals like massive overtime, resistance to innovation etc. You want to fix it? Move the regulatory and certification parts to under the direct oversight and control of the government and remove the limits on supply. Don't complain about talent going to work in optimizing ad consumption instead of solving human problems when most industries are rarely as flexible or easy to enter as software's.
      - Spooky23 7y ago
        Have you ever worked with an attorney? You don't want Law to be run like software.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- Shivetya 7y ago
  it is called marketing and higher ed has that down pat. they have pretty much convinced more than one generation of the requirement to have college degree to have a good life and about every regulatory body of the need to have even higher tiers to be suitable for the job. that they also got the Federal government to step in and become a loan factory on encouraged them more. it will only stop when the Federal government in turn tells them how much they can charge per course credit and which courses if not degrees warrant Federal money
- just_myles 7y ago
  Agreed. I remember when this was frowned upon. No need to go into student loan debt for a stem job.
BurningFrog 7y ago
> it's just depressing how the full time staff just see degrees as an obstacle to getting a raise not a path to growth and learning. The average American already thinks higher ed is a scam I think an unbiased look at the evidence might say they're right.
- bachmeier 7y ago
  Would that be the evidence that college educated workers make more money than those without[1,2], or the evidence that the unemployment rate is lower for those with a college degree than for those without[3,4]? [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252918500A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252918500A [2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252917300Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252917300Q [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU04027662 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU04027662 [4] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14027660 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14027660
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    That certainly confirms degrees as an obstacle to getting a raise!
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
    Does something have to have no value to be a scam or just a value less than what is being advertised? I do feel lumping all higher education together is a bit unfair and a breakdown would be far more telling where scams are and aren't.
    - bachmeier 7y ago
      > Does something have to have no value to be a scam or just a value less than what is being advertised? Shouldn't you present evidence if you're saying an unbiased look at the evidence shows something is a scam?
      - SkyBelow 7y ago

linuxftw 7y ago

This is a symptom they believe they're under paid. Plus, you don't need an advanced 'degree' to learn much of anything anymore. The wealth of human knowledge that is available online, for free, is astounding.

povertyworld 7y ago
As someone who has worked in higher ed, part of the degree requirements are to reduce corruption. Otherwise low tier state schools and community colleges would just be packed with the top administrator's buddies. Requiring a doctorate at least means you can't give the job to your pal Joey from Bayonne or whatever. Well, you still can, but he has to grind a mail order doctorate first.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  State-level certification exams would fix this. You either pass the exam, or you don't, doesn't matter how you acquired the knowledge.
  - povertyworld 7y ago
    But then people will just memorize for the test. We've all seen the IT guys who crammed for some certification, but don't know anything.
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      That is a problem with particular certification exams, not insurmountable at all. E.g. memorizing brain dumps for Microsoft MSCE is one thing, but that trick does not work for the CCIE.
      - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
        Is the CCIE one of the "hands on" exams, like the Red Hat and Kubernetes exams?
        rootusrootus 7y ago
        I have less familiarity with the Red Hat and Kubernetes exams, but yes -- the CCIE is a lab exam. Started out at two days but IIRC it is currently at one full eight-hour day in the lab. We have a few CCIEs where I work and the amount of studying to earn the certification is phenominal. The overall pass rate is about roughly 25%, which is notably low.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      I imagine that if you're cramming for a test on how to do differential equations, and you're able to pass that test, you actually know how to solve differential equations. "IT People" cramming for tests and memorizing the test for those certifications is a testament to the failure of those certifications, not for certifications in general.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - pkaye 7y ago
      I've done the California "Fundamentals of Engineering" Civil Engineering exam long time ago and it was no joke. Its been a while but I think they let you bring reference books or gave you one. You really had to know your stuff because you had no time to look at the reference material.
    - coldtea 7y ago
  - RaptorJ 7y ago
    The Progressive Case for the Qing Imperial Confucian Civil Service Exam
  - sansnomme 7y ago
    This needs to be done for Law, Medicine and Engineering degrees. Remove the power and higher ed institutional oligopoly. In a lot of places it's regulated by "professional associations", "councils", "boards" etc. that are a horrible cross between a union and a regulatory authority. Usually due to being the first mover or through lobbying or a bit of both. They can restrict school intake numbers, set legally significant policies across the industry, dispense judgement for malpractice, sometimes even whether to allow building a new institution or not. You don't hear much about them as compared to unions because they somehow acquired regulatory powers and a fair bit of upper middle class run in their circles but they are not exactly part of the State executive/legislative hierarchy either. It's popular to complain about "cultural problems" in hospitals like massive overtime, resistance to innovation etc. You want to fix it? Move the regulatory and certification parts to under the direct oversight and control of the government and remove the limits on supply. Don't complain about talent going to work in optimizing ad consumption instead of solving human problems when most industries are rarely as flexible or easy to enter as software's.
    - Spooky23 7y ago
      Have you ever worked with an attorney? You don't want Law to be run like software.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Shivetya 7y ago
it is called marketing and higher ed has that down pat. they have pretty much convinced more than one generation of the requirement to have college degree to have a good life and about every regulatory body of the need to have even higher tiers to be suitable for the job. that they also got the Federal government to step in and become a loan factory on encouraged them more. it will only stop when the Federal government in turn tells them how much they can charge per course credit and which courses if not degrees warrant Federal money
just_myles 7y ago
Agreed. I remember when this was frowned upon. No need to go into student loan debt for a stem job.

BurningFrog 7y ago

> it's just depressing how the full time staff just see degrees as an obstacle to getting a raise not a path to growth and learning. The average American already thinks higher ed is a scam I think an unbiased look at the evidence might say they're right.

bachmeier 7y ago
Would that be the evidence that college educated workers make more money than those without[1,2], or the evidence that the unemployment rate is lower for those with a college degree than for those without[3,4]? [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252918500A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252918500A [2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252917300Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252917300Q [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU04027662 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU04027662 [4] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14027660 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14027660
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  That certainly confirms degrees as an obstacle to getting a raise!
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  Does something have to have no value to be a scam or just a value less than what is being advertised? I do feel lumping all higher education together is a bit unfair and a breakdown would be far more telling where scams are and aren't.
  - bachmeier 7y ago
    > Does something have to have no value to be a scam or just a value less than what is being advertised? Shouldn't you present evidence if you're saying an unbiased look at the evidence shows something is a scam?
    - SkyBelow 7y ago