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The article lists specifically 5 conspiracy theories: QAnon, Pizzagate, some kind of “Zionist Occupation Government” theory, Sandy Hook "Crisis Actor", and New

by ColanR 7y ago

The article lists specifically 5 conspiracy theories: QAnon, Pizzagate, some kind of “Zionist Occupation Government” theory, Sandy Hook "Crisis Actor", and New World Order theory. Some of these I've never heard of. I'm concerned what this will do to squash legitimate criticisms and questions. Recall, Pizzagate accused Epstein and his associates of pedophilia (and described his airplane as well). If the FBI considers accusing epstien and his associates of pedophilia a national security threat, we are in trouble.

MiddleEndian 7y ago
Epstein wasn't much of a secret, he was convicted (and got a ridiculously favorable plea deal) back in 2008.
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
  I think ridiculously favorable is probably an understatement. It was more like he wasn't punished at all and the documents weren't made public at all. It wasn't until the internet funded Mike Cernovich 10k to sue to make the records public (which the Miami Herold then joined in with) that probably ultimately led to a new case being formed in NYC. https://youtu.be/mtiV0VJsc9c?t=4m20s https://youtu.be/mtiV0VJsc9c?t=4m20s
  - rahuldottech 7y ago
    Here's another great explainer of just how ridiculously favourable that deal was: https://youtu.be/VXtI-8dq7B0 https://youtu.be/VXtI-8dq7B0
- faissaloo 7y ago
  And yet seemingly up until recently people were completely unaware of the Epsteins.
  - ezekg 7y ago
    This really should frighten people, to be honest. There is a lot of public information out there that people are completely oblivious to, simply because the media giants don't cover it. They attempt to discredit QAnon but they fail at doing so because their articles are void of facts. They have an obvious narrative but nobody seems to care. People who believed Epstein was involved in child trafficking were considered conspiracy theorists up until a few weeks ago. What about the others close to Epstein? Who got him off the hook last time? How do you explain away James Alefantis' photos on his Instagram? Who is he close to? How do you deal with Laura Silsby, who is now Laura Galyer, and her adventures in Haiti? Podesta and especially his "art"? I can go on and on. Am I a conspiracy theorist for being concerned about what the hell is going on?
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      It's important to keep in mind that the term 'conspiracy theory' was first weaponised as part of a 1976 psyop https://www.coreysdigs.com/c-i-a-3-letter-agencies/cia-coined-weaponized-the-label-conspiracy-theory/ https://www.coreysdigs.com/c-i-a-3-letter-agencies/cia-coine...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
npunt 7y ago
The nature of conspiracy theories like these is they draw false connections between things that are often true, in order to make larger false claims. That means sometimes they raise the profile of true things, but that's just a side effect of their real purpose.
- ColanR 7y ago
  Can we agree that attempting to 'connect the dots' between known facts should not be considered a threat to national security? That's my concern.
  - digsy 7y ago
    Russian trolls have been promoting who connected the unconnected dots of anti-vaccine theorists [1]. At the same time, we have seen a rise in diseases that could have been prevented through the use of vaccines and in some cases people died. This is not harmless fun. This is a hostile nation seeking to undermine the health and reasoning of another nation. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - spdustin 7y ago
    Connecting the dots? That’s fine. Making up new dots? That’s not.
    - ColanR 7y ago
      > Making up new dots? That’s not. To clarify: does the FBI get to say which dots have been fabricated?
      - danaris 7y ago
        Someone has to. Should it be the FBI? I dunno. But there is no Universal Truth that will defend itself and make people who lie turn purple, so we have to depend on people to make that call at some step along the line.
yodon 7y ago
All conspiracy theories connect to reality just enough to provide an on-ramp for new adherents. Your "if" statement above is exactly how it works. No. No one, least of all the FBI, is saying anything of the sort you wrap your if statement around. Please don't step onto the on-ramp of conspiracy theory mania and please don't encourage others who might be less stable than you or have lower cognitive abilities than you to do so either.
api 7y ago
If anything this stuff helps real crooks like Epstein by muddying the water and making the whole subject area look silly. I sometimes wonder if some of it is intentional. Seems like a great way to cover things up in an age where actually keeping secrets is hard. I know if I were running a human trafficking, prostitution, and blackmail operation and wanted to cover it up I'd start by spreading wild theories and false accusations about elite Satanic cartoon villain cults doing exactly what I'm doing. That way the whole topic would get an aura of crankiness and reputable media would stay away. Disinformation is like radar chaff. You just blow out a lot of noise and nobody knows where the signal is. The real secrets might leak but it doesn't matter because they just merge and blend in with all the bullshit. A grassroots explanation for this stuff is more likely of course, if only for Ockham's razor reasons. My point is that no good is accomplished by spreading nonsense.
- miej 7y ago
  ah yes. I personally like to refer to this as a stargate theory. for example, if the gov actually had a piece of alien technology capable of opening a wormhole to other planets, perhaps the best way to cover it up would indeed be to create a public tv show about it. That way, anyone who tried to argue for its veracity would immediately be considered a borderline lunatic.
  - api 7y ago
    I know a few people who are into UFO stuff and think that's exactly what was done to cover up evidence of alien presence. They also think a lot of the more common conspiracy-type mythology and fringe stuff in the UFO circuit is nonsense put out there to make the topic look silly. It would definitely work.
    - danaris 7y ago
      Well, Stargate SG-1 specifically had the US Air Force fully on-board as consultants and even occasional guest appearances by genuine Air Force brass. So...maybe there really is something under Cheyenne Mountain? ^_^
- 7y ago
flukus 7y ago
Is the new world order theory all that dangerous? It's been around for decades and regularly tied in with other conspiracy theories. The worst it's done that I'm aware of is be tied in with "agenda 21" conspiracies and helped stall action on climate change.

by ColanR 7y ago

MiddleEndian 7y ago

Epstein wasn't much of a secret, he was convicted (and got a ridiculously favorable plea deal) back in 2008.

0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
I think ridiculously favorable is probably an understatement. It was more like he wasn't punished at all and the documents weren't made public at all. It wasn't until the internet funded Mike Cernovich 10k to sue to make the records public (which the Miami Herold then joined in with) that probably ultimately led to a new case being formed in NYC. https://youtu.be/mtiV0VJsc9c?t=4m20s https://youtu.be/mtiV0VJsc9c?t=4m20s
- rahuldottech 7y ago
  Here's another great explainer of just how ridiculously favourable that deal was: https://youtu.be/VXtI-8dq7B0 https://youtu.be/VXtI-8dq7B0
faissaloo 7y ago
And yet seemingly up until recently people were completely unaware of the Epsteins.
- ezekg 7y ago
  This really should frighten people, to be honest. There is a lot of public information out there that people are completely oblivious to, simply because the media giants don't cover it. They attempt to discredit QAnon but they fail at doing so because their articles are void of facts. They have an obvious narrative but nobody seems to care. People who believed Epstein was involved in child trafficking were considered conspiracy theorists up until a few weeks ago. What about the others close to Epstein? Who got him off the hook last time? How do you explain away James Alefantis' photos on his Instagram? Who is he close to? How do you deal with Laura Silsby, who is now Laura Galyer, and her adventures in Haiti? Podesta and especially his "art"? I can go on and on. Am I a conspiracy theorist for being concerned about what the hell is going on?
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    It's important to keep in mind that the term 'conspiracy theory' was first weaponised as part of a 1976 psyop https://www.coreysdigs.com/c-i-a-3-letter-agencies/cia-coined-weaponized-the-label-conspiracy-theory/ https://www.coreysdigs.com/c-i-a-3-letter-agencies/cia-coine...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

npunt 7y ago

The nature of conspiracy theories like these is they draw false connections between things that are often true, in order to make larger false claims. That means sometimes they raise the profile of true things, but that's just a side effect of their real purpose.

ColanR 7y ago
Can we agree that attempting to 'connect the dots' between known facts should not be considered a threat to national security? That's my concern.
- digsy 7y ago
  Russian trolls have been promoting who connected the unconnected dots of anti-vaccine theorists [1]. At the same time, we have seen a rise in diseases that could have been prevented through the use of vaccines and in some cases people died. This is not harmless fun. This is a hostile nation seeking to undermine the health and reasoning of another nation. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- spdustin 7y ago
  Connecting the dots? That’s fine. Making up new dots? That’s not.
  - ColanR 7y ago
    > Making up new dots? That’s not. To clarify: does the FBI get to say which dots have been fabricated?
    - danaris 7y ago
      Someone has to. Should it be the FBI? I dunno. But there is no Universal Truth that will defend itself and make people who lie turn purple, so we have to depend on people to make that call at some step along the line.

yodon 7y ago

All conspiracy theories connect to reality just enough to provide an on-ramp for new adherents. Your "if" statement above is exactly how it works. No. No one, least of all the FBI, is saying anything of the sort you wrap your if statement around. Please don't step onto the on-ramp of conspiracy theory mania and please don't encourage others who might be less stable than you or have lower cognitive abilities than you to do so either.

api 7y ago

If anything this stuff helps real crooks like Epstein by muddying the water and making the whole subject area look silly. I sometimes wonder if some of it is intentional. Seems like a great way to cover things up in an age where actually keeping secrets is hard. I know if I were running a human trafficking, prostitution, and blackmail operation and wanted to cover it up I'd start by spreading wild theories and false accusations about elite Satanic cartoon villain cults doing exactly what I'm doing. That way the whole topic would get an aura of crankiness and reputable media would stay away. Disinformation is like radar chaff. You just blow out a lot of noise and nobody knows where the signal is. The real secrets might leak but it doesn't matter because they just merge and blend in with all the bullshit. A grassroots explanation for this stuff is more likely of course, if only for Ockham's razor reasons. My point is that no good is accomplished by spreading nonsense.

miej 7y ago
ah yes. I personally like to refer to this as a stargate theory. for example, if the gov actually had a piece of alien technology capable of opening a wormhole to other planets, perhaps the best way to cover it up would indeed be to create a public tv show about it. That way, anyone who tried to argue for its veracity would immediately be considered a borderline lunatic.
- api 7y ago
  I know a few people who are into UFO stuff and think that's exactly what was done to cover up evidence of alien presence. They also think a lot of the more common conspiracy-type mythology and fringe stuff in the UFO circuit is nonsense put out there to make the topic look silly. It would definitely work.
  - danaris 7y ago
    Well, Stargate SG-1 specifically had the US Air Force fully on-board as consultants and even occasional guest appearances by genuine Air Force brass. So...maybe there really is something under Cheyenne Mountain? ^_^
7y ago

flukus 7y ago

Is the new world order theory all that dangerous? It's been around for decades and regularly tied in with other conspiracy theories. The worst it's done that I'm aware of is be tied in with "agenda 21" conspiracies and helped stall action on climate change.