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FBI Says QAnon, Internet Conspiracy Theorists Are National Security Threats
- pizza 7y agoReally makes you hope this doesn't just make them dial it up to 11 in response..
- olliej 7y agoThey would be correct, I mean their also generally just dangerous to anyone around them. Just like antivaxxers
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y agoYea, ideas can be troublesome and dangerous even. Who would have a need to question anything that isn't on the news or that comes from our hardworking and honest politicians? These people must be tracked and/or censored so that they dont have even the possibility of bothering weaker mind individuals than ourselves. Also, I was thinking of moving to communist China - the government there seems very well run and honest from all of their advertisements and news reports. Want to come with me?
- lwelyk 7y agoHe must have edited out the part of his post where he advocated for taking rights away from those who believe in obvious bs. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y agoWell, is that not the next step with this line of thinking? I am sure if I looked I could find some examples of Chinese press / agencies saying the same sort of thing.
- joshred 7y agoThat's a bad argument. If I were to call you a moron, that doesn't mean I'm advocating removing you from the gene pool.
- dang 7y agoPlease don't do shallow flamewars on HN. Even if you're right, this line of argument won't convince anybody. It only makes us all feel worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- happytoexplain 7y agoThis comes off as a highly antagonistic, emotional reaction to a pretty tame statement that didn't include, even implicitly, any of the things you're rebutting.
- mindcrime 7y agoNo more so than the FBI themselves are...
- reilly3000 7y agoHow on earth is the FBI a threat to national security? If you think the special council was something that the FBI created you are sorely misinformed. Educate me.
- phy6 7y agoWhen the FBI has penned such things as the Martin Luther King suicide letter, people should be allowed to be suspicious and watchful for anything like that again. https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/12/7204453/martin-luther-king-fbi-letter https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/12/7204453/martin-luther-...
- PostOnce 7y agoThe list of FBI controversies is so long, the wikipedia article on the FBI refers you to a separate page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies
- dang 7y agoPlease don't post unsubstantive flamebait to HN. It leads to unsubstantive flamewars. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- kome 7y agoOF WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF? (jk)
- lsniddy 7y agosounds like the FBI considers them a threat...
- Fjolsvith 7y agoOr maybe just the agency’s Phoenix bureau.
- ezekg 7y agoI might get labeled as a "conspiracy theorist" (homework: look up the origin of the term) for this, but I've been following Q for over a year now. There have been a lot of things that have been hard to explain, and other things that are flat out disgusting, to say the least. This new development with Jeffrey Epstein has caused many friends to start asking me questions about who Q really is, seeing as I've mentioned Jeffrey quite a few times over the last year. I've had some interesting conversations over beers about the QAnon movement. Nevertheless, this "conspiracy theory" really has made the headlines lately, ay? I don't foresee this thread going well. :)
- tptacek 7y agoThe entire nature of conspiracy theories is that they seize on human cognitive biases; it's expected and normal that they concern recognizable patterns that are "hard to explain, to say the least".
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y agoLumping all theories about current events into a single basket is silly. Remember that cigarettes causing cancer used to be a "conspiracy theory" and we had a more free press back then than we do now. But you are right it is normal for people to think for themselves even if they are missing some / all their screws.
- kevingadd 7y agoThe point where it becomes a problem is essentially where thinking for themselves (good) transforms into being led astray by other 'free thinkers' who have realized they can exploit people's fear and skepticism. Q has been in many cases a money-making exercise for opportunists and not an actual exercise in truth-seeking.
- anbop 7y agoThinking for yourself is not an unalloyed good. It’s important to realize where you need to rely on expertise.
- ryanSrich 7y agoIf you're morbidly curious about QAnon conspiracies, but can't stomach actually digging in yourself, these guys do a pretty entertaining job of covering whatever the current conspiracy is. https://twitter.com/QanonAnonymous https://twitter.com/QanonAnonymous
- Fjolsvith 7y agoOr you can get the day-by-day analysis at https://steemit.com/@x22report https://steemit.com/@x22report
- Deimorz 7y agoBlogspam of https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-terrorism-160000507.html https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-ter... (But I expect this will disappear into flag-oblivion shortly anyway)
- i_am_nomad 7y agoI was under the impression that QAnon was a documented fabrication - that it was a deliberate hoax concocted on 8chan (or somewhere similar) for the “lulz,” with the message trail to prove it.
- ryanSrich 7y agoYou might be thinking about this https://news.artnet.com/opinion/q-anon-hoax-1329983 https://news.artnet.com/opinion/q-anon-hoax-1329983
- Fjolsvith 7y agoIf it is a hoax, they sure know how to predict future events to the day, hour and minute.
- throw11223344 7y agoDon't confuse Q with real prior leaks. Q is a cold-read fabrication using the same format as earlier leaks to the same channels.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoOh, I wasn't. There are too many Q-Proofs that make it mathematically impossible to deny.
- throw11223344 7y agoIt's to discredit prior leaks which had a similar format.
- iscrewyou 7y agoThese comments, or even the article at this point, need to be purged. This article is related to HN but most of these comments aren’t. The content of these comments belongs on Reddit or Twitter. They are snarky, one liners, flame-baity, etc.
- tptacek 7y agoI complained about this as well --- there's an anti-pattern on HN where almost anyone can come up with something to say about the FBI, or a joke about QAnon, but comparatively few will have anything germane to say, with the inevitable result of trash-fire threads. But HN is also doing a good job on this particular thread of flagging those comments, which you should do as well.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- AYBABTME 7y agoChina was served opium by its opponents and I guess the US is being served spiralling destructive conspiracy theories.
- president 7y agoSeems like there isn't much the government can do about influencers spouting off dangerous rhetoric causing ignorant followers to do harm. Could the FBI actually arrest these people for inciting extremism or are they protected by free speech?
- throw11223344 7y agoCould the FBI actually arrest Tony Podesta already? Christ
- savethefuture 7y agoSo corporate media can spew out disinformation for years without consequences but when someone anonymous online spreads disinformation it warrants the fbis involvement to deem it national security? Where does it stop, sounds like suppression of freedom of speech and thought, attempting to steer the narrative. Someone who downvoted me and flagged me, please tell me where I'm wrong with what I said?
- SeanBoocock 7y agoReply All has done good episodes on this (https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/n8homa/122-the-qanon-code https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/n8homa/122-the-qanon...) and PizzaGate (https://gimletmedia.com/amp/shows/reply-all/emhwl5 https://gimletmedia.com/amp/shows/reply-all/emhwl5) for anyone who wants a high level summary.
- fzeroracer 7y agoThe danger is, as the article mentions, conspiracy theories range from relatively benign to actively harmful and dangerous. They've become more and more weaponized as a way of finding villains, outlets for violence, anger etc which then results in innocent people being murdered. Or, in the case of one incident, someone killing a mob boss and putting his entire extended family at risk. Which, I mean, this is all related to the tech industry as a whole because Youtube, Twitter, Facebook etc all feed into the cycle of extremism because it increases engagement. It's hard to ignore the profound shift as a result of content not only being easily accessible but also targeted directly at various groups of people and monetized. I've already had to talk with my parents because they've fallen into the trap of following or believing Facebook posts which perpetuate falsified information. It's only going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
- DiogenesKynikos 7y agoIt's not only worse, though. The internet has also made it much easier to access and spread true information. Without the internet, there could be no WikiLeaks. Let's not forget, as well, that the most objectively harmful "fake news" in recent American history was not perpetrated by random Facebook posts, but by the major news outlets themselves, and even heavily pushed by the New York Times - the disinformation campaign surrounding Iraqi WMD.
- elliekelly 7y agoLike a lot of "dangerous" speech online I wish the government would focus their efforts on helping the people who are getting sucked in to these ideologies rather than trying to police them. I have a friend who went down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole shortly after his dad died. He's very clearly mentally unwell. He owns several firearms and sometimes I do worry about him snapping. But there's just no reasoning with him when it comes to his conspiracies or seeking medical treatment. He's not a criminal. I hope he doesn't become one. Once upon a time he was a really nice guy. But I think he (and society) would benefit a lot more from some support and mental health treatment than surveillance.
- jdc 7y agoMods, could you change the url/title to that of the original source at Yahoo? https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-terrorism-160000507.html https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-ter...
- savethefuture 7y agoHow typical posting in a controversial thread, get upvoted then downvoted and flagged, silencing my thoughts on the subject. I said there were other forms of mass disinformation that should be addressed too and that people should think for themselves, not let large entities suppress freedoms on the internet. Here we go again, the downvotes started.
- nerdponx 7y agoMy guess is that it's because these the particular voices you're standing up for happen to be associated (sometimes strongly, sometimes not) with white supremacism and racism. I don't think you should have been downvoted, let alone flagged, but that's my only guess as to why; the alternative is conspiracy.
- savethefuture 7y agoI have no side, I was looking at things objectively and pointing out that corporate media spreads disinformation as well, there are plenty of entities that spread it, including foreign. But we shouldn't allow government agencies to further reduce internet freedoms because someone anonymous posts a bunch of bullshit...
- JudgeWapner 7y agoso is that the magic formula for PR damage control for the next internet disaster: join their group with many shill accts, pretend to go along with the conspiracy and make it bigger and more obnoxious than before, drawing on racial/anti-semitic tropes, then with your main mouthpiece, criticize the disaster as being racist/anti-semitic therefore clearly false?
- nerdponx 7y agoI don't know how you can criticize a disaster as such, but honestly this wouldn't surprise me if it were being done. My plausibility test for a conspiracy is: is there a sufficient motive, is the effort required commensurate with the motive, and how many people need to be on the take for it to work. This kind of thing passes all three.
- ColanR 7y agoThe article lists specifically 5 conspiracy theories: QAnon, Pizzagate, some kind of “Zionist Occupation Government” theory, Sandy Hook "Crisis Actor", and New World Order theory. Some of these I've never heard of. I'm concerned what this will do to squash legitimate criticisms and questions. Recall, Pizzagate accused Epstein and his associates of pedophilia (and described his airplane as well). If the FBI considers accusing epstien and his associates of pedophilia a national security threat, we are in trouble.
- MiddleEndian 7y agoEpstein wasn't much of a secret, he was convicted (and got a ridiculously favorable plea deal) back in 2008.
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y agoI think ridiculously favorable is probably an understatement. It was more like he wasn't punished at all and the documents weren't made public at all. It wasn't until the internet funded Mike Cernovich 10k to sue to make the records public (which the Miami Herold then joined in with) that probably ultimately led to a new case being formed in NYC. https://youtu.be/mtiV0VJsc9c?t=4m20s https://youtu.be/mtiV0VJsc9c?t=4m20s
- rahuldottech 7y agoHere's another great explainer of just how ridiculously favourable that deal was: https://youtu.be/VXtI-8dq7B0 https://youtu.be/VXtI-8dq7B0
- faissaloo 7y agoAnd yet seemingly up until recently people were completely unaware of the Epsteins.
- ezekg 7y agoThis really should frighten people, to be honest. There is a lot of public information out there that people are completely oblivious to, simply because the media giants don't cover it. They attempt to discredit QAnon but they fail at doing so because their articles are void of facts. They have an obvious narrative but nobody seems to care. People who believed Epstein was involved in child trafficking were considered conspiracy theorists up until a few weeks ago. What about the others close to Epstein? Who got him off the hook last time? How do you explain away James Alefantis' photos on his Instagram? Who is he close to? How do you deal with Laura Silsby, who is now Laura Galyer, and her adventures in Haiti? Podesta and especially his "art"? I can go on and on. Am I a conspiracy theorist for being concerned about what the hell is going on?
- inflatableDodo 7y agoThe FBI announcing this now, given there is an American President obsessed with internet conspiracy theories and theorists, to the extent that he invites QAnon supporters to the Whitehouse, does perhaps feel a smidgen like shutting the stable door long after the horse has bolted. And as others have noted here, the QAnon nonsense itself is just malarkey in the first place. The only ultimate point of QAnon is that of a collaborative joke to reel in media and idiots. Is all quite strange really. Is an online hive acting as a farcical Rasputin on modern US power structures, for the most part as a practical joke.
- leftyted 7y agoThere's a certain amount of irony here given the FBI's history (I'm thinking of COINTELPRO). I support conspiracy theorists. I think they are canaries in the coal mine of free speech. Right now we seem to be wrestling with the fear that someone can write something online, someone else can read it, buy a gun, and go do something illegal. While I find this worrying, I think any cure would be worse than the disease.
- digsy 7y agoMaybe they were canaries in the coal mine of free speech but now some of them have been co-opted to do real arm e.g. Russian trolls pushing anti-vax memes [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/
- rdtsc 7y ago> I think they are canaries in the coal mine of free speech. Interesting take on it. I remember years back Chomsky had defended the right of some despicable Holocaust denier to publish his stuff https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair. I always wonder if he would do it again today.
- ColanR 7y agoI hope someone will. Intellectual discussion seems to always play second fiddle to emotion and personal attacks (attack the idea, please, instead of the person). Takes courage to stand up to a mob, online or in person. We need to defend the right to discuss distasteful things, and even to wonder if they are true (should I add a holocaust disclaimer here?).
- gwm83 7y agoDoes it make a difference if there is no true discussion or debate, but instead one party that simply desires to spread misinformation? (Party in this context not meaning a US political party)
- aspenmayer 7y agoPolitics isn’t just what politicians do anymore than voting is all that citizens do. ‘In 2013, Surkov was characterized by The Economist[1] as the engineer of "a system of make-believe", "a land of imitation political parties, stage-managed media and fake social movements".’[2] [1] https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21577421-what-departure-vladislav-surkov-means-government-ideologues-exit https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21577421-what-departur... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov
- vuln 7y agoOne field office in Arizona wrote a single report... Am I missing something? How does one field off speak for the entirety of the FBI? If this was coming from the director of the FBI it would have a bit more grit.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoYeah, and these conspiracy theories are " very likely [to] motivate domestic extremists" to act violent. I can think of several major religious texts that do that! The MSM is trying to smear the QAnon movement (which is very patriotic in nature) by painting it in the same light as other extremist groups.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoOr... Perhaps, the QAnon movement has an insider at the Phoenix FBI office who suggested to the bulletin's author that he paint the QAnon in the same light of other extremist groups, so as to make the MSM and their viewers/readers think the whole movement is an elaborate hoax, and thus allow it to secretly continue on its merry way.
- jakeogh 7y agonot all that tangential: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szk7XXEb_sQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szk7XXEb_sQ