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The iPhone is no longer Apple’s most important product
- YeahSureWhyNot 7y agoyeah not because they made a more important product but because people aren't buying the iphones like they used to
- SN76477 7y agoI have upgraded once in 5 years (from a 6 to the 8+) They are a great product, durable and very capable even when they are 3 or 4 years old. Im not chasing innovation, I want something I can depend on.
- addicted 7y agoI agree. I used my iPhone 6 since 2015 till a few months ago. Androids do not last that long. The problem is that during that time my iPhone suffered damage, despite a case (some of the damage was acknowledged as inherent flaws, but some were just my fault). And being a 6 I was able to get it repaired for a reasonable price. That is increasingly less true for newer iPhones. It's $50 more to buy a new iPad than it is to repair the iPhone X screen. You can buy an iPad Air ($499) for less than the cost of any other iPhone X damage ($549). And if you lose your iPhone, and would like to buy something cheap to keep you going until you splurge for the next generation a few months or a year from now, then your cheapest entry point is north of $500 again. The economics of owning an iPhone are getting pretty rough, compared to what you get on the Android side.
- penagwin 7y ago(I work in cell phone repair part time) Checkout the "lower end" iPhones like the 7/8 (wait for apple to release their new stuff in the fall first so it's price drops). They really aren't that slow compared to the new phones, the improvements in phones have REALLY slowed down. I'm the kind of person who has a i7 8700k, 1080ti, 32GB gaming machine, but I've been using my iPhone 7 Plus for two years, and I have nothing to complain about performance wise. And the iPhone 7 is only 450$ new from Apple. A screen repair from a 3rd party will be less then 100$. The iPhone 7/8's are also really easy to repair by yourself (can't speak for the higher ones) - the exact screen our store uses for iphone 7 repairs costs less than 25$. Battery is only 12$. I understand that the "average joe" likely shouldn't attempt to repair it, but I figure the typical HN audience wouldn't have much issues - just be slow and follow ifixit. They're very affordable/easy to repair, and are solid phones, and they'll be getting updates for at least a few more years.
- pier25 7y ago> The economics of owning an iPhone are getting pretty rough, compared to what you get on the Android side. Specially when you can get a pretty decent device such as the Mi A2 for $200 that runs Android One (almost stock).
- scarface74 7y agoI’ve had experience with “pretty decent” Android phones like the Moto G. It was nowhere near as performant as my iPhone 6s that was three years older. I bought a Moto G for my son. He was glad to “upgrade” to a phone that was three years older.
- pier25 7y agoI had a Moto G (it was my first Android phone) and the Mi A2 is way better than that.
- penagwin 7y agoI have a similar opinion of iPhones. It's sad that people only really look at the flagship models and go "WOWZER IPHONES COST 1200$?!" The iPhone 8+ is 700$ which is still inline with "Previous Generation Pricing", heck a iPhone 7 starts at 450$ and is an incredible device. I have a 7 Plus, it's going to be 2 years old this year, still going strong, no desire to upgrade - which is odd for me, I'm the kind of person who has a 1080ti, etc. - but my phone does EVERYTHING I ask of it, and Apple is happily supplying it with updates for at least another few years. This idea that people have to spend $1200+ dollars on a phone every year needs to die.
- travbrack 7y agoFor those who don't want to read through, they're saying it's services, Mac, and iPad.
- topicseed 7y agoWell, new iPhone sales may not fuel the future growth of revenue for the company. Yet, the existing base of iPhone devices is definitely fueling the revenue growth for the company's new and future services. Rare are the non-iPhone owners who choose Apple Music, or Apple TV... The iPhone is the gateway to that walled garden.
- topicseed 7y ago...and if a current iPhone owner switches to an Android device, I doubt they'll stick around Apple services! Therefore, the iPhone is still cornerstone to Apple's growth, as it enables it.
- verisimilidude 7y agoYou're right about switchers, but I wonder if this is a missed opportunity. If I switched to Android, I might still want to use iMessage. I'd probably still want to be plugged into shared photo libraries between family members. I honestly prefer Apple Maps to Google Maps at this point. But I'm not sure how Apple would monetize this, or if they'd want to give people any incentive to switch.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- addicted 7y agoThe iPhone is still THE MOST important product for Apple. No iPhone means no services and no wearable sales. The iPad may sell independently of the iPhone and Macs would as well, but they are both significantly smaller than the iPhone market. Apple appears to believe they've saturated their addressable market, and their best bet for growth is to sell more to their existing customer base. I suspect we will see a shift in their marketing as well. The general ads which would attract new users to the iPhone platform will reduce, and the focus will be more on getting existing iPhone users to upgrade, or buy additional services/products.
- kbutler 7y agoYes, the headline is not just misleading, it is false. Not only does the iPhone drive other revenue streams, "It also still makes up the largest chunk of Apple's revenue." It is no longer the only important product, but it is still the most important.
- phoobahr 7y agoRate of growth is a garbage indicator for anyone who isn't VC funded. Particularily if you're a (still predominantly) hardware outfit with Thea history of designing, producing, shipping and selling some of the most profitable mass market products in history. If I decided to setup a lemonade stand in my front yard and sell one glass today (it's already late in the day here) and 100 glasses tomorrow then the growth argument makes me the most important (future) retailer in the world. Diversification is good for Apple, it's good for the ecosystem and as mentioned elsewhere probably makes it easier for them to produced devices that are less disposable. That's a great story and, given the dollars at stake, an important one. Why bother with the click-bait title that seriously erodes credibility?
- bfrog 7y agoI use an android phone, I'd buy an apple phone in a heartbeat if it didn't cost as much. They just keep raising the price too, which is ridiculous. I get its a premium product, but they've priced themselves out of so many peoples budgets at this point I think.
- mikestew 7y agoIn many venues, I'd be labelled an Apple fanboi. And I probably am. I've got all their shit; services, too. The day their credit card comes out is the day I sign up for it. Hey, it's one-stop shopping, I'm comfy in the ecosystem, I feel like a superior person by using their products, and the stuff mostly works. But I would absolutely love a $400-500 iPhone and I'm fine if it's missing a lot of features. My phone just isn't my primary point of mobile computing anymore (if anything, Apple Watch fills that role for me now[0]), so I neither need nor want a $1000 phone (even though, being a fanboi, I have one). And the point of putting my CV in the first paragraph is to point out that, hey, even if you don't make money selling me a phone, Apple, you'll still make an arse-load of money off me. And maybe you'll get new customers/revenue to boot. [0]Which, I'll point out, is also a ridiculously-priced device at $900 for the one I bought.
- saagarjha 7y ago> But I would absolutely love a $400-500 iPhone and I'm fine if it's missing a lot of features. Apple still sells iPhone 7.
- mikestew 7y agoGood point, I somehow skipped right over that one. Granted, I was thinking more along the lines of the SEs, which were a CPU generation behind, and would be supported for a while. The 7 is only a couple of generations from obsolescence. OTOOH, having given a bit of thought, is it just more economical to eat the expensive of the flagship up front and then hang on to it for four or five years (which is what we currently do).
- 7y ago
- wlesieutre 7y agoGreat that they've been able to grow their services revenue, but a huge percent of that is driven by iPhone owners subscribing to things. Headline is misleading at best, if the iPhone were to suddenly lose their market to Android phones, most of that subscription revenue would dry up too. Music and Arcade I'd expect are vastly phone-based. TV might have the Apple TV as a significant subscriber base, and Music admittedly has an android client, but I'd be shocked if iPhone users weren't the majority of all of those subscriptions.
- Despegar 7y ago>Headline is misleading at best, if the iPhone were to suddenly lose their market to Android phones 10 years into the iPhone, it's safe to say this is never going to happen.
- tuna-piano 7y agoDownvoted because 10 years isn't that long but never is.
- Zenst 7y agoNokia, Ericson, Blackberry... “Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” — Ferris
- melling 7y agoHmmm..., I remember the Macintosh’s slow death to the PC in the late 1980’s and 1990s. I think you should probably look more closely at the iPhone’s global market share. Developers will support the larger, more profitable markets first. At some point, they’ll stop supporting the shrinking market. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/31/iphones-global-marketshare-dips-to-101-amid-rise-of-samsung-chinese-brands https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/31/iphones-global-ma...
- elygre 7y agoDevelopers will support multiple markets, the same way that car companies deliver cars with the steering wheel on the wrong (i.e. right) side of the car for those comparably small markets.
- piblogger 7y agoiPhone may still be an important product to Apple. But the competition is too high nowadays because of the cheap Android mobiles which provide similar features like iPhone.
- traderjane 7y agoThe Apple watch is the only other device with the popularity to kind of sell Apple services. People aren't buying Apple's smart home solutions. I really wish Apple services were more broadly sold over other platforms.
- rootusrootus 7y agoAnd the watch is still tethered to the phone. We are a looooong ways from the iPhone not being Apple's most important product.
- scarface74 7y agoFor how long though? It will gain its own App Store this year, with standalone apps.
- saagarjha 7y agoiPad? Android for Apple Music?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- babypuncher 7y agoI think iPhone sales are slowing because the devices have become more durable and last longer. People aren't abandoning their iPhones, they're just using them for 3 and 4 years instead of replacing hem every 18-24 months under carrier contracts. The iPhone 6 is still a very capable smartphone five years on, provided you've replaced the battery in the meantime. The same couldn't be said of the 3GS in 2013. And this is where services and wearables come in to pick up the slack, which is arguably more consumer friendly than building devices that barely last two years.
- cronix 7y agoFunny how that happened immediately after they got caught purposefully slowing down phones without telling people when all they had to do was replace a battery instead of buying a new phone to fix declining speed issues. Sales seem to have dried up pretty quickly after that because you could fix it for $50 and have a fast phone again instead of $1000 on a new one. Most people don't need a faster processor to view their Twitter.
- dawnerd 7y ago> Most people don't need a faster processor to view their Twitter. If twitter keeps “improving” their app you will. But seriously though, how is it that the twitter app regularly causes my devices to lock up?
- cronix 7y agoNo idea, I don't allow those apps (most) on my phone. The website works just fine for those rare times I actually use it, which is mostly clicking on links that lead back there. If I need a newer faster phone to view basic html (a list view of posts, with video...basic stuff here...) then I just won't use that noncritical service. I'll live. There is no need to use a lot of cpu for such a basic thing. It's a glorified website.
- basch 7y agoI dont think its this at all. What happened is the processors became fast enough. Each year the processors were "twice as fast" as the year before. Somewhere around the A10 there were diminishing returns, where being twice as fast wasnt useful anymore. Much like laptops, once they got fast enough, energy efficiency became the most important metric.
- panzagl 7y agoOne could almost say they've leveraged their monopoly position in phone platforms to expand into additional markets...
- criddell 7y agoCan you explain the monopoly part?
- tenebrisalietum 7y agoThere is one seller of iOS devices and you can't select another seller if you want to run software from the Apple store.
- scarface74 7y agoThat’s not how monopolies work. In that case all of the console makers are “monopolies”.
- tenebrisalietum 7y agoUsually the friendlier term "ecosystem" is used.
- neo4sure 7y agoApple is the new IBM!!!
- motu 7y agoSales are slowing because they stopped innovating and give us the same exact device for four years in a row. Every once in a while the apple sheep wake up a little and stop buying until they add another camera then gobble the next device up. I’ll ativk with my X until they actually do something innovative. Maybe they can figure out how to copy notchless androids by 2025 or so?
- skinnymuch 7y ago“Apple sheep”. Good mature comment!
- martin_a 7y agoStill more substantial criticism of Apple than your comment. Besides that, insults are often used as a rhetoric element, is that too hard to grasp for people on HN or why is this so frowned upon?
- dfeojm-zlib 7y agoApple products are no longer durable, well-made or a good value, so their "services" are now required to keep them operable, which explains why said "services" revenue is now more important than purchase price. Think of Apple products as American-made Mercedes rather than a Volvo.
- gen3 7y agoLast I checked my four year old iphone still works without paying for apple music, icloud or any other apple services. It also lasted longer then the phone I had before it (an android), and my friends phones that run android. I don't know if your argument holds water.
- skywhopper 7y agoTerrible headline. iPhone is still by far Apple’s most important product. Just because it doesn’t account for the majority of the company’s revenue doesn’t demote it. Some other product would have to be more important. But what is that? The article never says.
- m0zg 7y agoWhat's mind blowing to me is they could easily double their already respectable Mac revenue by simply undoing some of the Ive-induced idiocy like keys with no travel, dongle infestation, touch bar that distracts when you look at the main screen, or hinge which breaks if you open/close your laptop a lot. I hope this can actually happen now. And their services themselves have considerable potential given that currently most people just use storage and music.
- skinnymuch 7y agoTheir MacBook sales never dropped. The dev and internet geek community who want MacBooks but have stopped buying them isn’t that big. They aren’t going to double MacBook sales. If that was the case there would be some clear indications of it, no?
- m0zg 7y agoDid I say they did? I merely said they could double if they paid a bit more attention to usability.
- bastard_op 7y agoSo they're going to bank on the $60k desktop or the $4k laptop vs. the $1500 phone? I guess there's always beats with $300 headphones too.
- marcus_holmes 7y agoBeginning of the end. IBM, HP, Oracle - once tech companies start making more money from services than products, they lose something and start to decline in relevance. I would include Microsoft in that, but they started making things again.
- skinnymuch 7y agoOracle is a massive company in profits and market cap still.
- marcus_holmes 7y agoyeah, but outside a tiny (although rich) part of the industry, they're irrelevant. Well, except for the things that Sun built and they bought.
- mark_l_watson 7y agoI mostly agree. I am finding Apple Services to be much improved and I often leave my iPhone at home and just wear my Apple Watch. I hope I don’t sound too judgemental, but every time I see a room full of people where most everyone is staring into their phone I question if they are really making best use of their time in the wonderful world that we live in.
- arvinsim 7y ago> I hope I don’t sound too judgemental, but every time I see a room full of people where most everyone is staring into their phone I question if they are really making best use of their time in the wonderful world that we live in. There are a lot more use cases that demands phones instead of smart watches.
- mark_l_watson 7y agoAgreed, which is why I sometimes do carry my phone, mostly when I think I might be taking pictures or be on a video call. I am trying to make my default ‘no phone’ but I understand that does not work for everyone.
- arvinsim 7y agoNot really interested in iPhone development anymore since mine already meets my needs. The Macs, on the other hand, have so much room for improvement.
- skc 7y agoApple are excellent at figuring out what "the next big thing" is. The fact that none of us know what that could possibly be is kind of exciting to be honest.
- Data_Junkie 7y agoIf they can't really compete on engineering they are done. Everybody can pretend services and style and brand makes up for it but it don't. They were built on engineering and without it and leadership to actually do something it's just a matter of time. The rate might be faster than expected. Looks like it to me.