3 ms·

This is wild. It's perfectly logical what they're doing but I'm used to seeing this kinda thing after the trademark has lapsed (Kleenex, Xerox, etc). But to see

This is wild. It's perfectly logical what they're doing but I'm used to seeing this kinda thing after the trademark has lapsed (Kleenex, Xerox, etc). But to see a company release a pretty funny youtube video begging you to say their name less, well, it's just a weird thing to see.

djsumdog 7y ago
I don't think trademarks can lapse in the US and many other countries (copyright can; which is a huge debate in an of itself: see Disney). I actually use "tissue" and "copy", but those kinda make sense. Personally I hate it when people keep saying "I Googled..." because it reminds me of this bullshit search engine monoculture we have right now (I try to use DuckDuckGo more, but I miss the days of Yahoo, Lycos, Hotbot, Dogpile, Excite and how they all give you DIFFERENT results!) Velcro though ... totally didn't even realize it was a brand until like just now .. and I'm still going to use it generically, because it should just be at this point. :-P
- technothrasher 7y ago
  I don't think trademarks can lapse I think the original poster meant "genericized" instead of "lapsed". But Velcro is clearly already genericized, as you note.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    No, "velcro" is genericized. The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. As such, you can buy "Velcro [BVBA] velcro", or you can call 3M's hook-and-loop fasteners "3M velcro". 3M, naturally, avoids using the term "velcro" in its packaging and marketing, and would never use "Velcro", because even though they could, because the term is genericized, it would still be free advertising for a competitor.
    - technothrasher 7y ago
      The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. Capitalization has no bearing on word marks (in the US, at least. I can't speak for other countries). "Velcro", "VELCRO", "velcro" are all the same thing as far as the trademark office is concerned. And yes, there are still active trademarks for the word "VELCRO", but it has still been unquestionably genericized.
      - logfromblammo 7y ago
        The rules of English grammar supersede those of the trademark office. If it's not a proper noun, and not the first word in a sentence, don't capitalize it. As an example of all-caps trademark, LEGO bricks. Like velcro, LEGO is a portmanteau. Velcro is velour-crochet, and LEGO is leg-godt ("play good"). And like velcro before it, LEGO is now fighting genericization. If they lose the struggle, kids will play with legos instead of LEGO bricks. They might be legos made by Lego then, but LEGO would be the trademark. It might not be relevant to the word mark, but the image mark is stylized in all caps. This is nitpicky, but I am sharing some of my experience from writing software that produces brand reports for trademark lawyers. The USPTO might not be case-sensitive, but some of the lawyers are very case-oversensitive, so our software had to take that into account. I still have trouble using a trademark as a noun or verb.
      - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
        I think there's mismatch here between you and the parent in that, yes the "VELCRO" trademark is genericised in public use but _officially_ the trademarks are still registered and valid so in law they are not [yet] genericised. In the UK I can go in to shops the length of the country and ask for velcro and get "hook and eye" or "fabric fastener", is a completely generic term now, just no one wants to fight it in court. * UK trademark record, https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/4/EU002312890 https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/4/EU00...
- caymanjim 7y ago
  > I don't think trademarks can lapse in the US You can lose your trademark protection if the term becomes genericized and you fail to police its use. It's exceedingly rare for this to happen, the law isn't clear-cut, and different courts have ruled differently in similar cases, but it is technically possible. Velcro doesn't have to rabidly attack everyone trying to genericize its brand, and so long as they are still using it themselves and making some occasional effort to legally defend it, they're fine. But if other brands started calling their products "velcro" in the generic sense, and Velcro ignored it for a decade or more, they could in fact lose the trademark entirely. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericize...
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    >and you fail to police its use // I think you're wrong here. Genericisation isn't a function of your policing of your mark. The only other way to lose a mark is not pay your fees, you can police it as loosely as you like. What being heavy handed does is increase damages and inhibit allowed usage that a company is not in control of. I think this is one of the greatest misunderstandings about RTMs. (I'm only really familiar with the USA and UK IP laws, know something of European and EU regulations, not much beyond that.)
drivers99 7y ago
Ah, thanks for mentioning it's a funny video. With just the link posted, it just looks like a typical "say it our way so we don't lose the trademark" thing like [1]. It makes a big difference in the decision to click on it. [1] https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-play/ https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-p... > If the LEGO trademark is used at all, it should always be used as an adjective, not as a noun. For example, say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGO BRICKS”. Never say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGOs”.

djsumdog 7y ago

I don't think trademarks can lapse in the US and many other countries (copyright can; which is a huge debate in an of itself: see Disney). I actually use "tissue" and "copy", but those kinda make sense. Personally I hate it when people keep saying "I Googled..." because it reminds me of this bullshit search engine monoculture we have right now (I try to use DuckDuckGo more, but I miss the days of Yahoo, Lycos, Hotbot, Dogpile, Excite and how they all give you DIFFERENT results!) Velcro though ... totally didn't even realize it was a brand until like just now .. and I'm still going to use it generically, because it should just be at this point. :-P

technothrasher 7y ago
I don't think trademarks can lapse I think the original poster meant "genericized" instead of "lapsed". But Velcro is clearly already genericized, as you note.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  No, "velcro" is genericized. The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. As such, you can buy "Velcro [BVBA] velcro", or you can call 3M's hook-and-loop fasteners "3M velcro". 3M, naturally, avoids using the term "velcro" in its packaging and marketing, and would never use "Velcro", because even though they could, because the term is genericized, it would still be free advertising for a competitor.
  - technothrasher 7y ago
    The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. Capitalization has no bearing on word marks (in the US, at least. I can't speak for other countries). "Velcro", "VELCRO", "velcro" are all the same thing as far as the trademark office is concerned. And yes, there are still active trademarks for the word "VELCRO", but it has still been unquestionably genericized.
    - logfromblammo 7y ago
      The rules of English grammar supersede those of the trademark office. If it's not a proper noun, and not the first word in a sentence, don't capitalize it. As an example of all-caps trademark, LEGO bricks. Like velcro, LEGO is a portmanteau. Velcro is velour-crochet, and LEGO is leg-godt ("play good"). And like velcro before it, LEGO is now fighting genericization. If they lose the struggle, kids will play with legos instead of LEGO bricks. They might be legos made by Lego then, but LEGO would be the trademark. It might not be relevant to the word mark, but the image mark is stylized in all caps. This is nitpicky, but I am sharing some of my experience from writing software that produces brand reports for trademark lawyers. The USPTO might not be case-sensitive, but some of the lawyers are very case-oversensitive, so our software had to take that into account. I still have trouble using a trademark as a noun or verb.
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      I think there's mismatch here between you and the parent in that, yes the "VELCRO" trademark is genericised in public use but _officially_ the trademarks are still registered and valid so in law they are not [yet] genericised. In the UK I can go in to shops the length of the country and ask for velcro and get "hook and eye" or "fabric fastener", is a completely generic term now, just no one wants to fight it in court. * UK trademark record, https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/4/EU002312890 https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/4/EU00...
caymanjim 7y ago
> I don't think trademarks can lapse in the US You can lose your trademark protection if the term becomes genericized and you fail to police its use. It's exceedingly rare for this to happen, the law isn't clear-cut, and different courts have ruled differently in similar cases, but it is technically possible. Velcro doesn't have to rabidly attack everyone trying to genericize its brand, and so long as they are still using it themselves and making some occasional effort to legally defend it, they're fine. But if other brands started calling their products "velcro" in the generic sense, and Velcro ignored it for a decade or more, they could in fact lose the trademark entirely. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericize...
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  >and you fail to police its use // I think you're wrong here. Genericisation isn't a function of your policing of your mark. The only other way to lose a mark is not pay your fees, you can police it as loosely as you like. What being heavy handed does is increase damages and inhibit allowed usage that a company is not in control of. I think this is one of the greatest misunderstandings about RTMs. (I'm only really familiar with the USA and UK IP laws, know something of European and EU regulations, not much beyond that.)

drivers99 7y ago

Ah, thanks for mentioning it's a funny video. With just the link posted, it just looks like a typical "say it our way so we don't lose the trademark" thing like [1]. It makes a big difference in the decision to click on it. [1] https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-play/ https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-p... > If the LEGO trademark is used at all, it should always be used as an adjective, not as a noun. For example, say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGO BRICKS”. Never say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGOs”.